Outdoors Lighting Dilemma

[David Seguin]

Originally Posted by Gary Moses

Cart before the horse . . .Again? The story/script is king. Without a complete, interesting and dynamic story everything is guaranteed to suck. Why or how would anyone try to save money on scenes that have no content or story to portray?
Write or get the story first. If the story doesn't stand on its own (without production) what's the point?
After the story is in place and the scenes are decided, then get creative, very creative, in how to produce those scenes with little or no budget. You might be surprised how much a good story helps the scenes.
Crap that is produced cost effectively is still crap.
Gary

I get your point, but if I write it without considering how it COULD be done, I'll most likely end up with a script I can't produce.

[Marcus Marchesseault]

I won't get into the discussion about script before planning production but I'll say I can see both sides. Concerning the original topic, I'll add that I think there is something that would make our lives easier is a 12V generator. If 12V batteries could be charged rapidly between breaks and setups, lighting in remote locations would be much easier. 12V batteries can power lights for a while, but not for a whole night unless you bring 600 pounds of lead. Regular generators don't put out much 12V so energy can't be stored and used silently off batteries and an inverter. Perhaps something like a Honda eu1000i (very quiet 120V) and a really long extension cord is a more practical approach. A couple pieces of plywood to make a sound shield would weigh a lot less than a bunch of batteries.

[Chris Sgaraglino]

I agree with the lanterns, but I would also consider adding a fire and looking for a full moon...
For example:

[Marcus Marchesseault]

The problem with the moon is that it is impossible to expose it and normally-lit subjects at the same time. The moon itself is very bright and blows out. The other huge problem with shooting with moonlight is that it comes and goes with clouds and it tracks across the sky noticeably over the time it takes to shoot a few scenes. I might do an establishing shot where I split screen the moon properly exposed with a campground lit with fake fire, but I don't think it is feasible to get a decent sky along with a campground with artificial light. Perhaps gradual ND filters for the establishing shots would do?

[Brian Drysdale]

Having the moon perhaps works in some wide shots, but it's unpredictable unless you've got an astronomer on board and it will quickly move out of position. Compositing the moon in can be planned for, otherwise there's a lot of chance involved.

[Ian Dart]

hi david,

speaking from experience my best advice would be to keep it simple....
night shoots are hard work.
i gaffed on the feature VAN DIEMANS LAND and we had seven nights of shooting campfire scenes......all at different locations.
the only motivation for the light was the campfire
we lit that with six 200w globes covered with cto scattered around the fire
a redhead with cto thru a 6 x4 frame of half white diff, all running thru 2 flicker boxes.
and a 1.2 hmi punched thru the background for detail
all this we ran off a small genny.
simple.
cheers
ian

[Gary Moses]

Guys Guys. This fellow is looking for advice to help him and everybody just wants to talk about equipment or the endless possibilities that people have tried or just heard about.
David, to answer your response "I get your point, but if I write it without considering how it COULD be done, I'll most likely end up with a script I can't produce."
1st there is a story then there is a script. If you take the time to study each scene in the script and how you can produce it to get the effect that you want you will also see the potential of how to produce it cost-effectively. That's the entire reason to plan out the scene, the entire movie or whatever you're shooting. Yes it will take time to study each scene even make storyboards showing how you will portray the story based on actors, location, props, clothing/costume and yes the lighting. My point is to first understand the story and then decide how you can produce it. If you take the time develop the plan for each scene (before moving on to the next) you will create a blueprint of exactly how to shoot it and what you will need. Oh and if you're writing the story, you should most definitely write it without consideration of how it will be done. A good story can be produced much easier than trying to make a crappy story good using production techniques.
Gary

[Ian Dart]

hi gary,

thats probably because i am a gaffer....
and this is a lighting forum............
maybe david should post in the scriptwriter forum....

its my job to make the scriptwriter look good.................

cheers
ian

[Brian Drysdale]

There's no problem about seeing if something is possible on a particular budget, I don't know if he's wearing a producer's hat or the writer's. The story itself is different to the technical aspect, my one thought on 20 mins in a camp site is that there better be a lot happening around the fire to make this interesting.

[David Seguin]

Originally Posted by Gary Moses

Guys Guys. This fellow is looking for advice to help him and everybody just wants to talk about equipment or the endless possibilities that people have tried or just heard about.

Actually, that's kind of what I wanted :P
I appreciate any advice, but the main reason I started this thread is to figure out how to light the scene.

Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale

There's no problem about seeing if something is possible on a particular budget, I don't know if he's wearing a producer's hat or the writer's. The story itself is different to the technical aspect, my one thought on 20 mins in a camp site is that there better be a lot happening around the fire to make this interesting.

Haha. Don't worry, it's not all around the campfire. In fact, those 20 minutes I spoke of involve several scenes, some of which are during the day. There will only be one long part around the fire, and that will be about 5 minutes long. There are a few other short scenes, but since I've already figured out how to light them, I didn't bother mentioning them.
As for the rest, I'm writing, directing, and co-producing. I know it's a lot, but I've handled more (on smaller projects, obviously), so it shouldn't be a problem.

[Ian Dart]

hi david,

maybe if you had stated that in your first post it would have saved everyone

the angst.

cheers
ian

[David Seguin]

Originally Posted by Ian Dart

hi david,

maybe if you had stated that in your first post it would have saved everyone

the angst.

cheers
ian

haha. Sorry guys.
Either way, I got plenty of good ideas from your replies. If you guys have anything more to say, keep it coming. I really appreciate the input.
It's going to be pretty hard to get those scenes in the dark, but I'll be doing some extensive tests long before scheduling the shoot.

For the other scenes I didn't mention, there's one where the characters are in canoes at night with a couple of lanterns. I'm thinking it's going to look pretty neat with the lanterns reflecting in the water and everything. For that scene I don't want it to be too lit either, so the lanterns should be sufficient. It's actually my opening scene. It's going to start off with a fairly wide shot of the dark lake with the only light coming from the lanterns.

[Bob Hart]

Ian.

Thanks for the share on how it "was" done versus what might be. Regards from here in the west.

[Ian Dart]

hi guys,

hi there bob....another aussie......great to hear from you

seriously david if your budget can stretch you should invest in a gaffer.

they will have everything you will need and it would take some pressure off you as writer/dir/prod....

believe it or not they are not all as grumpy as me and if you catch one between jobs they might do it cheaply.
i like the idea of the lanterns...might have to do some experimenting...

cheers
ian

[Gary Moses]

Hey Ian, What started this is he starts out by saying "I'm currently developing a script . . ."
Gary