Shooting student film in a church..Need your help! at DVinfo.net

Dan Lahav · March 13th, 2005, 02:05 AM

Hi all-
I'm shooting my next 16mm film project in a church:

http://www.christpb.org/images/churc...0image%202.jpg

The problem is, my film school does not have an excess amount of lights for the project, and im very new to lighting... I believe all we have is a 3x650's, 1K broad and a 2K soft light. We also have flags, stands, etc. I need your help on how to go about this. There are 2 men in the scene, and obviously their location will depend on where the lights are placed (at least for the wide shots). Would it be safe to use any of the house lights? We have one day to shoot it in, and dont have time or money to setup special lights. I want the scene to be dark, but not so dark where you cant make out where you are. Please help me place the lights! Thanks.

BTW i'm using Kodak Vision2 7218 which i hear has good lattitude for dark scenes.

Jesse Bekas · March 13th, 2005, 09:18 AM

You could definitely use the house lights, and use your lights for accent lighting.

Most church halls' over-head lighting are on dimmers. If this is the case with your church, you'd probably do best with house lights low, 1 650 as a key, 1 scrimmed 650 as a fill (1 stop or so under the key), and the last 650 as a hair light, or depending on the blocking, a separation light between the actors.

Dan Lahav · March 13th, 2005, 12:07 PM

Thanks Jesse- That's a good idea. Will i get an overall orangish tone to my film if i use the houselights?

Matt Irwin · March 13th, 2005, 01:24 PM

7218 is tungsten balanced, so what you really need to worry about is daylight coming through a window and contaminating your colors (it can be timed out in post). The house lights are probably less than true 3200k... maybe 2700-3000? It shouldn't be too bad. 7277 (Vision 320T) is also a great stock, especially for shooting in mixed color temperatures.

It shouldn't be too hard to light your coverage, but the wide shots might be difficullt. Churches can be deceptively hard to light in. If there's a balcony toward the back of the church you might be ably to backlight from there (if your action is in the pews), though a 650 may not have the punch for that.

Dan Lahav · March 13th, 2005, 02:22 PM

Hi Matt, would you recomend 7277 over the 7218? I have not ordered the film yet. Thanks!

Jesse Bekas · March 13th, 2005, 02:50 PM

Wouldn't the stained glass of the windows remove the need to balance for daylight? I'm assuming, of course, that the windows are colored, but most churches I've seen are.

Matt Irwin · March 13th, 2005, 03:45 PM

True, stained glass windows actually cut outdoor light a LOT. In fact with dark colored windows, I've seen a full size musco light inches from the glass and it barely had any effect inside.

Dan,
I haven't had the chance to shoot to use 7218 yet. With 16mm, grain can be a real issue, especially if you finish on film. (grain is about four times larger on 16 than 35) I shot a test comparing Vision2 200T 7217 (super fine grain) against Vision 320T 7277, and to our surprise the 77 had better grain! I'm not sure how 18 will look, but I do know that a higher ISO usually equates to larger grain. I know that a lot of shooters really like 18. It would be worth shooting a test but I know that in the student world, that's not usually affordable.
If you havn't already, you might check out Kodak's Color Negative Films and see if anything jumps out at you.

Richard Veil · March 20th, 2005, 03:59 AM

If I can help let me know
r

March 13th, 2005, 02:05 AM	#1
Dan Lahav Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: CA Posts: 172	Shooting student film in a church..Need your help! Hi all- I'm shooting my next 16mm film project in a church: http://www.christpb.org/images/churc...0image%202.jpg The problem is, my film school does not have an excess amount of lights for the project, and im very new to lighting... I believe all we have is a 3x650's, 1K broad and a 2K soft light. We also have flags, stands, etc. I need your help on how to go about this. There are 2 men in the scene, and obviously their location will depend on where the lights are placed (at least for the wide shots). Would it be safe to use any of the house lights? We have one day to shoot it in, and dont have time or money to setup special lights. I want the scene to be dark, but not so dark where you cant make out where you are. Please help me place the lights! Thanks. BTW i'm using Kodak Vision2 7218 which i hear has good lattitude for dark scenes.

March 13th, 2005, 01:24 PM	#4
Matt Irwin Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 327	7218 is tungsten balanced, so what you really need to worry about is daylight coming through a window and contaminating your colors (it can be timed out in post). The house lights are probably less than true 3200k... maybe 2700-3000? It shouldn't be too bad. 7277 (Vision 320T) is also a great stock, especially for shooting in mixed color temperatures. It shouldn't be too hard to light your coverage, but the wide shots might be difficullt. Churches can be deceptively hard to light in. If there's a balcony toward the back of the church you might be ably to backlight from there (if your action is in the pews), though a 650 may not have the punch for that. __________________ Matt Irwin DP / matt.irwincine.com

March 13th, 2005, 03:45 PM	#7
Matt Irwin Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 327	True, stained glass windows actually cut outdoor light a LOT. In fact with dark colored windows, I've seen a full size musco light inches from the glass and it barely had any effect inside. Dan, I haven't had the chance to shoot to use 7218 yet. With 16mm, grain can be a real issue, especially if you finish on film. (grain is about four times larger on 16 than 35) I shot a test comparing Vision2 200T 7217 (super fine grain) against Vision 320T 7277, and to our surprise the 77 had better grain! I'm not sure how 18 will look, but I do know that a higher ISO usually equates to larger grain. I know that a lot of shooters really like 18. It would be worth shooting a test but I know that in the student world, that's not usually affordable. If you havn't already, you might check out Kodak's Color Negative Films and see if anything jumps out at you. __________________ Matt Irwin DP / matt.irwincine.com

March 20th, 2005, 03:59 AM	#8
Richard Veil Chimera Lighting Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Santa Cruz CA Posts: 293	How are you doing? If I can help let me know r __________________ Strength and Honor RLV

March 13th, 2005, 09:18 AM	#2
Jesse Bekas Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ridgefield Park, New Jersey, USA Posts: 572	You could definitely use the house lights, and use your lights for accent lighting. Most church halls' over-head lighting are on dimmers. If this is the case with your church, you'd probably do best with house lights low, 1 650 as a key, 1 scrimmed 650 as a fill (1 stop or so under the key), and the last 650 as a hair light, or depending on the blocking, a separation light between the actors.

March 13th, 2005, 12:07 PM	#3
Dan Lahav Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: CA Posts: 172	Thanks Jesse- That's a good idea. Will i get an overall orangish tone to my film if i use the houselights?

March 13th, 2005, 02:22 PM	#5
Dan Lahav Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: CA Posts: 172	Hi Matt, would you recomend 7277 over the 7218? I have not ordered the film yet. Thanks!

March 13th, 2005, 02:50 PM	#6
Jesse Bekas Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ridgefield Park, New Jersey, USA Posts: 572	Wouldn't the stained glass of the windows remove the need to balance for daylight? I'm assuming, of course, that the windows are colored, but most churches I've seen are.