DIY Lighting

Aaron Koolen · August 30th, 2002, 06:44 AM

Adrian, that's good to hear. I'm going out this weekend to see what sorts of lights and stands I can find in the stores in my city. Do you white balance to those lights, or do you use corrective gels? And an associated question, how do I measure the colour temperature of lights?

Casey Visco · August 30th, 2002, 01:43 PM

Aaron, you could try phoning the manufacturer of the lamps used in the lights, they usually have this information on hand. otherwise you'll need a Colour Temperature Meter, which works kind of like a light meter, i think Sekonic and Minolta make one...but they can be very expensive.

Aaron Koolen · August 31st, 2002, 06:48 AM

Casey, yeah I think I'll have to do something like that.

Adrian, inspired by your recent aquisition I decided to follow in your footesteps and see if I could find some cheap lights myself. Give me something to play around with before I get my camera. Found some single light 500w lamps and stands that I got 2 of and also bought a double unit - stand with a bar holding 2 500's. Dunno if that was a smart thing to be honest though, but I thought there might be a need for that much brightness on one stand at some point ;) Might take it back to the store and exchange for 2 more single stand ones. All up it cost me NZ$120 which is about US$56 so I'm happy.

Now to try and make some barn doors! Adrian, do you know where I can find out how to make some? Are there any good sites out there which tell you the sorts of things you need on 'em?

Cheers
Aaron

Nathan Gifford · August 31st, 2002, 12:38 PM

One of the people here had a great post on lighting physics, a good read.

If you want to try you hand at fluorescent lights try this link at Studio 1

http://www.studio1productions.com/Articles/FL-Lights.htm

Adam Wakely · September 5th, 2002, 11:30 PM

I was also thinking of using a few 500watt type work lights on stands and replacing the bulbs with higher colour temp. bulbs.

I understand about colour tempature but something confuses me.
Why can't I just use the lower colour temp bulb that comes with a work light and do a white balance? Will a white balance with higher CT bulbs look better than a lower CT bulb? Why pay the extra money? Also won't dimmers just lower your CT anyway?

Dylan Couper · September 5th, 2002, 11:55 PM

Dimmers won't lower your colour temperature as far as I know.
I believe you can use work lights and just white balace manualy and it will work fine. It's better to do it the proper way with the right bulbs, though you should still white balance every time you shoot no matter what lights you use.
Having the proper colour temperature will also come in handy when you are trying to deal with multiple light sources, like in an office setting, so things don't come out as odd colours when they are exposed to different light in different parts of the scene.

The real benefit of pro lights over work lights is their adjustability. Focusing and barn doors are infaluable when properly lighting a scene.

Adam Wakely · September 6th, 2002, 12:18 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Dylan Couper : Dimmers won't lower your colour temperature as far as I know...
... It's better to do it the proper way with the right bulbs...

I would think the colour temp would go down when you dim??
Maybe someone knows?
If doing the the "proper way" only helps if you're using outside light and/or have a kit with all the fancy barn doors, switches etc, then I think I will make my own. The article on this site "Build your own light kit from Home depot" is pretty good!

http://www.dvinfo.net/articles/lighting/hdlightkit1.php

I have all the parts already including high quality dimmers with remotes. The quartz bulbs I can get for free but the higer CT bulbs may cost me about $15 each. Unless some professional lighting person out there can give me a good reason why I should only use "higher CT bulbs and lights" then I'll have to try the less expensive alternative. :)
I even tried some low voltage lighting (MR16..EXN) on tracks! Worked well and the image was great. But too much work to create stands for them and other attatchments.
No enough light throw at greater distances either.

The fluorescents I just tried and they looked great (using C50 bulbs) but they are too big and heavy to lug around. 3 simple lights on stands would be better and easier.

Thanks for the input...

Dylan Couper · September 6th, 2002, 12:37 AM

I'm not saying go buy a kit by any means, just that the main differences in a pro kit is the extra tools that help control and direct the light. Believe me, I'm the LAST guy here who will tell you that you need to go buy pro stuff to make something look good! :)

I plan on making two or three light banks out of compact flourescents. I think they are a very good choice if you want to build your own lighting from scratch. I'll buy pro stands though.

Adam Wakely · September 6th, 2002, 12:46 AM

Ya, no problem Dylan! :)

I'm interested in some responses though from some pro- lighting people out there as well. Where are you old vetern lighting people! :)

I tried a compact flourescent and it looked great but not alot of throw. You would need alot of them. I have one that is equal to a 100watt bulb and has a CT of 5000. I put it in a holder with a reflector and clamp. The throw is pretty week. My experimenting continues....

Dylan Couper · September 6th, 2002, 09:44 AM

I'm looking at a bank of four of the 18"-ish compact flourescents. are they 55w each? Do you know what other CT's they are avaiable in?

Jeff Donald · September 6th, 2002, 07:56 PM

If you decrease the voltage the color temperature will change (lower temp.). This happens in everyday use because the voltage rises and falls as the power company changes the line voltage to meet demand etc. Color temperature will also change as the bulb ages. Color temperature changes with daylight all the time. White balance to your light source and you'll be fine. Troubles come in when you want to apply filters. The change in color temp. may produce unexpected results. There are meters to measure color temperature, but they are fairly expensive. http://www.minoltausa.com/eprise/main/MinoltaUSA/MUSAContent/CPG/CPGProducts?cname=exp&fname=exp_exp&Mname=Color_Meter_IIIf

Jeff

Adam Wakely · September 7th, 2002, 04:06 AM

I just watch the movie, Blade2!
The technical section of the DVD is excellent!
It's actuallly longer than the movie!
Lots of notation on lighting, camera angles, etc!
They talk about and show alot of different lights used, colour temp, etc. It also makes me want to get a steady cam!
Not too bad of a movie as well.

Adam Wakely · September 7th, 2002, 04:13 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Dylan Couper : I'm looking at a bank of four of the 18"-ish compact flourescents. are they 55w each? Do you know what other CT's they are avaiable in? -->>>

I sell alot of those bulbs at work. I'll check the CT.
Maybe your looking for something like a FLUO-TEC 850 SOFTLITE 8x55w (DIMMABLE) ?
They're alot of money to buy! I'm looking to make one myself after seeing how easy it would be and I have access to all the parts. I would mount the ballasts on the stand as well.
We have alot of Lithonia & GE products at work so instead of working all day, I'm looking at the products and trying to figure out ways to create lighting for video! :)

Aaron Koolen · September 7th, 2002, 06:28 AM

Just a question. I've heard that not all lights are dimmable, i.e. You can't put dimmers on all lights. This sounds wrong to me and I was wondering if someone could clear this up. I thought you'd be able to put dimmers on anything. The reason I ask, is that I've bought some work lights and I want to stick dimmers on them (And get some CT lights if they'll fit the sockets ;) )

Cheers
Aaron

Jay Gladwell · September 7th, 2002, 07:40 AM

Jeff, is right. Putting a dimmer from Home Depot on a light--any light--and turning it down will alter the color temperature. This is why photographic lights with dimmers are so expensive. They have the capability of lowering the output without effecting the color temperature.

August 30th, 2002, 01:43 PM	#17
Casey Visco Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 280	Aaron, you could try phoning the manufacturer of the lamps used in the lights, they usually have this information on hand. otherwise you'll need a Colour Temperature Meter, which works kind of like a light meter, i think Sekonic and Minolta make one...but they can be very expensive. __________________ Casey Visco Glidecam Industries, Inc.

August 31st, 2002, 12:38 PM	#19
Nathan Gifford Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Tickfaw, LA Posts: 1,217	One of the people here had a great post on lighting physics, a good read. If you want to try you hand at fluorescent lights try this link at Studio 1 http://www.studio1productions.com/Articles/FL-Lights.htm __________________ Nathan Gifford Southern Cyclist Magazine & Productions For quick answers try our Search! To see me and Rob Lohman click here

September 5th, 2002, 11:30 PM	#20
Adam Wakely Quantum Productions Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Port Coquitlam, BC, Canada Posts: 161	I was also thinking of using a few 500watt type work lights on stands and replacing the bulbs with higher colour temp. bulbs. I understand about colour tempature but something confuses me. Why can't I just use the lower colour temp bulb that comes with a work light and do a white balance? Will a white balance with higher CT bulbs look better than a lower CT bulb? Why pay the extra money? Also won't dimmers just lower your CT anyway? __________________ Adam Wakely, Quantum Productions

September 6th, 2002, 12:18 AM	#22
Adam Wakely Quantum Productions Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Port Coquitlam, BC, Canada Posts: 161	<<<-- Originally posted by Dylan Couper : Dimmers won't lower your colour temperature as far as I know... ... It's better to do it the proper way with the right bulbs... I would think the colour temp would go down when you dim?? Maybe someone knows? If doing the the "proper way" only helps if you're using outside light and/or have a kit with all the fancy barn doors, switches etc, then I think I will make my own. The article on this site "Build your own light kit from Home depot" is pretty good! http://www.dvinfo.net/articles/lighting/hdlightkit1.php I have all the parts already including high quality dimmers with remotes. The quartz bulbs I can get for free but the higer CT bulbs may cost me about $15 each. Unless some professional lighting person out there can give me a good reason why I should only use "higher CT bulbs and lights" then I'll have to try the less expensive alternative. :) I even tried some low voltage lighting (MR16..EXN) on tracks! Worked well and the image was great. But too much work to create stands for them and other attatchments. No enough light throw at greater distances either. The fluorescents I just tried and they looked great (using C50 bulbs) but they are too big and heavy to lug around. 3 simple lights on stands would be better and easier. Thanks for the input... __________________ Adam Wakely, Quantum Productions

September 6th, 2002, 12:46 AM	#24
Adam Wakely Quantum Productions Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Port Coquitlam, BC, Canada Posts: 161	Ya, no problem Dylan! :) I'm interested in some responses though from some pro- lighting people out there as well. Where are you old vetern lighting people! :) I tried a compact flourescent and it looked great but not alot of throw. You would need alot of them. I have one that is equal to a 100watt bulb and has a CT of 5000. I put it in a holder with a reflector and clamp. The throw is pretty week. My experimenting continues.... __________________ Adam Wakely, Quantum Productions

August 30th, 2002, 06:44 AM	#16
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	Adrian, that's good to hear. I'm going out this weekend to see what sorts of lights and stands I can find in the stores in my city. Do you white balance to those lights, or do you use corrective gels? And an associated question, how do I measure the colour temperature of lights?

August 31st, 2002, 06:48 AM	#18
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	Casey, yeah I think I'll have to do something like that. Adrian, inspired by your recent aquisition I decided to follow in your footesteps and see if I could find some cheap lights myself. Give me something to play around with before I get my camera. Found some single light 500w lamps and stands that I got 2 of and also bought a double unit - stand with a bar holding 2 500's. Dunno if that was a smart thing to be honest though, but I thought there might be a need for that much brightness on one stand at some point ;) Might take it back to the store and exchange for 2 more single stand ones. All up it cost me NZ$120 which is about US$56 so I'm happy. Now to try and make some barn doors! Adrian, do you know where I can find out how to make some? Are there any good sites out there which tell you the sorts of things you need on 'em? Cheers Aaron

September 5th, 2002, 11:55 PM	#21
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	Dimmers won't lower your colour temperature as far as I know. I believe you can use work lights and just white balace manualy and it will work fine. It's better to do it the proper way with the right bulbs, though you should still white balance every time you shoot no matter what lights you use. Having the proper colour temperature will also come in handy when you are trying to deal with multiple light sources, like in an office setting, so things don't come out as odd colours when they are exposed to different light in different parts of the scene. The real benefit of pro lights over work lights is their adjustability. Focusing and barn doors are infaluable when properly lighting a scene.

September 6th, 2002, 12:37 AM	#23
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	I'm not saying go buy a kit by any means, just that the main differences in a pro kit is the extra tools that help control and direct the light. Believe me, I'm the LAST guy here who will tell you that you need to go buy pro stuff to make something look good! :) I plan on making two or three light banks out of compact flourescents. I think they are a very good choice if you want to build your own lighting from scratch. I'll buy pro stands though.

September 6th, 2002, 09:44 AM	#25
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	I'm looking at a bank of four of the 18"-ish compact flourescents. are they 55w each? Do you know what other CT's they are avaiable in?

September 6th, 2002, 07:56 PM	#26
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	If you decrease the voltage the color temperature will change (lower temp.). This happens in everyday use because the voltage rises and falls as the power company changes the line voltage to meet demand etc. Color temperature will also change as the bulb ages. Color temperature changes with daylight all the time. White balance to your light source and you'll be fine. Troubles come in when you want to apply filters. The change in color temp. may produce unexpected results. There are meters to measure color temperature, but they are fairly expensive. http://www.minoltausa.com/eprise/main/MinoltaUSA/MUSAContent/CPG/CPGProducts?cname=exp&fname=exp_exp&Mname=Color_Meter_IIIf Jeff

September 7th, 2002, 04:06 AM	#27
Adam Wakely Quantum Productions Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Port Coquitlam, BC, Canada Posts: 161	I just watch the movie, Blade2! The technical section of the DVD is excellent! It's actuallly longer than the movie! Lots of notation on lighting, camera angles, etc! They talk about and show alot of different lights used, colour temp, etc. It also makes me want to get a steady cam! Not too bad of a movie as well. __________________ Adam Wakely, Quantum Productions

September 7th, 2002, 04:13 AM	#28
Adam Wakely Quantum Productions Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Port Coquitlam, BC, Canada Posts: 161	<<<-- Originally posted by Dylan Couper : I'm looking at a bank of four of the 18"-ish compact flourescents. are they 55w each? Do you know what other CT's they are avaiable in? -->>> I sell alot of those bulbs at work. I'll check the CT. Maybe your looking for something like a FLUO-TEC 850 SOFTLITE 8x55w (DIMMABLE) ? They're alot of money to buy! I'm looking to make one myself after seeing how easy it would be and I have access to all the parts. I would mount the ballasts on the stand as well. We have alot of Lithonia & GE products at work so instead of working all day, I'm looking at the products and trying to figure out ways to create lighting for video! :) __________________ Adam Wakely, Quantum Productions

September 7th, 2002, 06:28 AM	#29
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	Just a question. I've heard that not all lights are dimmable, i.e. You can't put dimmers on all lights. This sounds wrong to me and I was wondering if someone could clear this up. I thought you'd be able to put dimmers on anything. The reason I ask, is that I've bought some work lights and I want to stick dimmers on them (And get some CT lights if they'll fit the sockets ;) ) Cheers Aaron

September 7th, 2002, 07:40 AM	#30
Jay Gladwell Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,244	Jeff, is right. Putting a dimmer from Home Depot on a light--any light--and turning it down will alter the color temperature. This is why photographic lights with dimmers are so expensive. They have the capability of lowering the output without effecting the color temperature.