Various lighting questions & answers from 2004

Imran Zaidi · September 13th, 2003, 11:07 PM

Anybody have any experience with one of these light kits? Seems like a pretty good deal for all that it comes with.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=2950111400

Richard Veil · September 15th, 2003, 10:28 PM

THAT LOOKS LIKE A JTL KIT OR SOMETHING LIKE IT.
I AM SURE THAT IT IS OK BUT I WOULD LOOK AROUND.

MAYBE CONSIDER A FEW TOTA LIGHTS, 3 STANDS AND 3 UMBRELLAS OR A SOFT BOX KIT AND A HAIRLIGHT. THERE ARE LOTS OF OPTIONS.
SEE THREAD ABOUT A GOOD BASIC LIGHTING KIT.

LIGHTING IS ALL ABOUT ACCESORIES AND YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE YOU CAN DRESS YOUR LIGHTS.
HAVE A GOOD NIGHT. IF I CAN HELP JUST ASK

Andreas Fernbrant · September 29th, 2003, 09:54 AM

I'm soon to buy some good video/film lights. I want compatibility within my light system. So I'm going by brand. What brand would you guys suggest in a system that need to be expanded with time and still need to be compatible?

I'm looking at Manfrotto or Ianiro because they are easiest to find near me. Leaning towards Ianiro.

I'm a sucker for quality. I hate bying cheap stuff with no quality. (but cheap stuff with quality are ok:)

What brand would you point me to or suggest me to buy?

Richard Veil · September 29th, 2003, 08:05 PM

I would consider selecting your lights by type.
What kind of lights to you have now?
What do you shoot?
You can get nice soft lights or focusing lights.
Arri makes some great kits
Tack
Richard

John Jay · November 12th, 2003, 05:21 PM

http://www.lumiquest.com/lq925.htm

is used in flash photography

anyone tried it with a low power 20watt top light, such as Sony HVL-20DW2?

Richard Veil · November 14th, 2003, 12:55 AM

My guess it will not burn up right away unless you use if for a really long time.

Keep us posted..

G. Lee Gordon · November 14th, 2003, 02:58 PM

Can anybody suggest a good starter lighting kit for all around use. I'm on a tight budget, the more I can save the better. I know there are a lot of variables involved, but give it your best shot. Thanks.

Bryan Beasleigh · November 14th, 2003, 08:31 PM

Lee
Very carefully browse all of the back posts here and at the dv.com lighting forum. A few people, me included have spent a great deal of time composing very detailed posts answering your question. The many posts have included links to manufacturers , suppliers, pricing and interesting reading.

Read all of the posts as the opinions and rationale vary. In the end it will make some sense. remember yo only get what you pay for. We're all cheap bast**ds, so there has to be a reason for us to spend out hard earned dough.

Daniel Hollister · November 24th, 2003, 11:28 PM

hi -
i have a gl-2 and i have a question. strangely enough, ive been filming for several years and dont know some of this basic stuff. i've never actually had to film outdoors, on a camera with manual settings, when its extremely bright out. (i live right on the coast of california.) and, well, i went out by the beach to test out a shot and it was unusually bright outside. i had the ND filter on and needed an ND8 attached as well because i didnt want to sacrifice depth of field... but i notice that faces, people, and well my subject in general, looks terribly dark because of the brightness outside. ive used reflectors, doesnt seem to help a lot... even when the sun is directly in the persons face, it still looks too... well, mostly dark, but sometimes its indescribable... anyway, what must i do to achieve realistic, decent-looking images without destroying the backgrounds? sun diffuser? but i would need a massive one for these shots... ah please help! thanks in advance

- daniel

Ken Tanaka · November 24th, 2003, 11:55 PM

Hello Daniel,
The fundamental bugaboo you describe is one that most of us face from time to time: contrast management. Expose for the brighter background and you crush the darker subject. Expose for the subject and you blow-out the background.

Basically, the best approach in such outdoor scenes (and really in nearly all settings) is to practice working with your situation rather than against it. This means repositioning the subject to use the available light better. This will make your job much easier.

If that's not possible, reflectors are your next best tool. Yes, I know that you reported bad results but this, too, takes practice and an attentive assistant.

Trying to light a backlit subject against a bright background for video can be a very equipment-intensive effort. It takes some very powerful and expensive lighting to compete with bright sun. HMI's powered from a generator come to mind...an expensive solution.

Failing all of that: shoot earlier or later in the day when the sun is lower in the sky.

Arthur John · December 21st, 2003, 08:40 PM

Can you shoot a reasonable video in moonlight?
Can a VX2100 or GL2 shoot decent video in moonilght?

The reason I ask, is that I've been woorking on a screenplay where a very important scene takes place in the desert on a lonely stretch of highway, and the only lights that will be available to keep it beleiveable are car headlights, moonlight, a flourescent handheld light and starlight.

One of my concerns is finding a camera that will shoot under those lighting conditions within reason.

Charles Papert · December 21st, 2003, 09:09 PM

Unless you boost the gain signficantly which is not ideal, no camera I know of will produce a satisfactory image in moonlight. At best you will have very slight separation in the shadow areas.

What if you found a stretch of highway that had a billboard with its own lights on it? The car could "conveniently" stop nearby--this would perhaps give you some more separation in the background.

The headlights can be used creatively if you use bounce cards to redirect them. There are also inexpensive spotlights that power off the cigarette lighter available at auto shops; with some diffusion and/or gelling, this could make a nice accent light or backlight.

The moonlight effect that we are used to for night exteriors is the result of 18,000 watt HMI's (or their equivalent) high up in Condor cranes up to half a mile away. It takes a lot of firepower to recreate moonlight!

Carlos E. Martinez · December 22nd, 2003, 07:22 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Arthur John : Can you shoot a reasonable video in moonlight?
Can a VX2100 or GL2 shoot decent video in moonilght?

The reason I ask, is that I've been woorking on a screenplay where a very important scene takes place in the desert on a lonely stretch of highway, and the only lights that will be available to keep it beleiveable are car headlights, moonlight, a flourescent handheld light and starlight.

One of my concerns is finding a camera that will shoot under those lighting conditions within reason. -->>>

Real moonlight is out of the question.

You can do day for night and get away with it, particularly if there are no modern references around.

One thing you will have to pick is if you want moonlight to be white or blue. You can fake that on the camera by doing white balance on white or yellowish cards.

The next thing is the car headlights. If you balance for them to come out white, the rest will be quite blue. If you balance for the day light you will have the headlights more yellow. You can pick a car with xenon headlights, which should help balance the whole thing.

What comes next is the headlights output, which should be minimum in daylight. Xenons will be better there too, but those headlights won't light anything, just show they are on.

You should use a grad filter to keep skies dark.

To get a real headlight output you will have to shoot those car scenes in the "magic hour", where daylight starts going away but still prints. On such situation the headlights will print strong and light where they pass by. The only problem is you will have little time to shoot those shots. Planning them should be essential.

Of course that lighting it all would be a second choice, but that is certainly very expensive.

There's a third choice, which is shooting in black and white and adding a blue tint in postproduction. That would solve the light color problem.

There are a lot of good looking choices you can use.

Carlos

Bryan Coffey · December 24th, 2003, 12:14 AM

Hello all!

I am looking for help with my Sony DCR-TRV33. When using the camcorder, the image looks great on the LCD screen, but when I stream the camera or tape to my computer through USB, the picture is very dark. I just put on a video light, but the image is still considerably darker than the LCD. Is this a common problem with the Sony? Is there a simple solution? Thanks for reading.

Bryan

Don Bloom · December 24th, 2003, 07:11 AM

It's a common "problem" with any camera being fed into a computer. Remember the LCD on the camera can be set to a brighter level AND the computer monitor is rarely set to a color bar standard so the image will almost always appear darker. That doesn't mean it is or that your exposure is wrong just that the screen should NEVER to used to adjust color or brightness or contrast levels.
Check your footage on a regular NTSC monitor OR at the very least a TV that has been set to color bars and has the proper brightness&Contrast. I think you'll see a hugh difference.
Happy Holidays,
Don

September 13th, 2003, 11:07 PM	#31
Imran Zaidi Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,315	Steve Kaeser Backgrounds & Accessories? Anybody have any experience with one of these light kits? Seems like a pretty good deal for all that it comes with. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=2950111400

September 15th, 2003, 10:28 PM	#32
Richard Veil Chimera Lighting Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Santa Cruz CA Posts: 293	JUST BE CAREFUL.. THAT LOOKS LIKE A JTL KIT OR SOMETHING LIKE IT. I AM SURE THAT IT IS OK BUT I WOULD LOOK AROUND. MAYBE CONSIDER A FEW TOTA LIGHTS, 3 STANDS AND 3 UMBRELLAS OR A SOFT BOX KIT AND A HAIRLIGHT. THERE ARE LOTS OF OPTIONS. SEE THREAD ABOUT A GOOD BASIC LIGHTING KIT. LIGHTING IS ALL ABOUT ACCESORIES AND YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE YOU CAN DRESS YOUR LIGHTS. HAVE A GOOD NIGHT. IF I CAN HELP JUST ASK __________________ Strength and Honor RLV

September 29th, 2003, 09:54 AM	#33
Andreas Fernbrant Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sweden - Helsingborg Posts: 283	Brands. I'm soon to buy some good video/film lights. I want compatibility within my light system. So I'm going by brand. What brand would you guys suggest in a system that need to be expanded with time and still need to be compatible? I'm looking at Manfrotto or Ianiro because they are easiest to find near me. Leaning towards Ianiro. I'm a sucker for quality. I hate bying cheap stuff with no quality. (but cheap stuff with quality are ok:) What brand would you point me to or suggest me to buy?

September 29th, 2003, 08:05 PM	#34
Richard Veil Chimera Lighting Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Santa Cruz CA Posts: 293	Types I would consider selecting your lights by type. What kind of lights to you have now? What do you shoot? You can get nice soft lights or focusing lights. Arri makes some great kits Tack Richard __________________ Strength and Honor RLV

November 12th, 2003, 05:21 PM	#35
John Jay Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: US & THEM Posts: 827	lumiquest soft box http://www.lumiquest.com/lq925.htm is used in flash photography anyone tried it with a low power 20watt top light, such as Sony HVL-20DW2? __________________ John Jay Beware *PLUGGER-BYTES*

November 14th, 2003, 12:55 AM	#36
Richard Veil Chimera Lighting Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Santa Cruz CA Posts: 293	You could be the first.. a pioneer of sorts.. My guess it will not burn up right away unless you use if for a really long time. Keep us posted.. __________________ Strength and Honor RLV

November 14th, 2003, 02:58 PM	#37
G. Lee Gordon Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 431	New Lighting Kit Can anybody suggest a good starter lighting kit for all around use. I'm on a tight budget, the more I can save the better. I know there are a lot of variables involved, but give it your best shot. Thanks.

November 14th, 2003, 08:31 PM	#38
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	Lee Very carefully browse all of the back posts here and at the dv.com lighting forum. A few people, me included have spent a great deal of time composing very detailed posts answering your question. The many posts have included links to manufacturers , suppliers, pricing and interesting reading. Read all of the posts as the opinions and rationale vary. In the end it will make some sense. remember yo only get what you pay for. We're all cheap bast**ds, so there has to be a reason for us to spend out hard earned dough.

November 24th, 2003, 11:28 PM	#39
Daniel Hollister Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 128	outdoor lighting hi - i have a gl-2 and i have a question. strangely enough, ive been filming for several years and dont know some of this basic stuff. i've never actually had to film outdoors, on a camera with manual settings, when its extremely bright out. (i live right on the coast of california.) and, well, i went out by the beach to test out a shot and it was unusually bright outside. i had the ND filter on and needed an ND8 attached as well because i didnt want to sacrifice depth of field... but i notice that faces, people, and well my subject in general, looks terribly dark because of the brightness outside. ive used reflectors, doesnt seem to help a lot... even when the sun is directly in the persons face, it still looks too... well, mostly dark, but sometimes its indescribable... anyway, what must i do to achieve realistic, decent-looking images without destroying the backgrounds? sun diffuser? but i would need a massive one for these shots... ah please help! thanks in advance - daniel

November 24th, 2003, 11:55 PM	#40
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Hello Daniel, The fundamental bugaboo you describe is one that most of us face from time to time: contrast management. Expose for the brighter background and you crush the darker subject. Expose for the subject and you blow-out the background. Basically, the best approach in such outdoor scenes (and really in nearly all settings) is to practice working with your situation rather than against it. This means repositioning the subject to use the available light better. This will make your job much easier. If that's not possible, reflectors are your next best tool. Yes, I know that you reported bad results but this, too, takes practice and an attentive assistant. Trying to light a backlit subject against a bright background for video can be a very equipment-intensive effort. It takes some very powerful and expensive lighting to compete with bright sun. HMI's powered from a generator come to mind...an expensive solution. Failing all of that: shoot earlier or later in the day when the sun is lower in the sky. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

December 21st, 2003, 08:40 PM	#41
Arthur John Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Farmington, New Mexico Posts: 34	Moonlight Video Scene Can you shoot a reasonable video in moonlight? Can a VX2100 or GL2 shoot decent video in moonilght? The reason I ask, is that I've been woorking on a screenplay where a very important scene takes place in the desert on a lonely stretch of highway, and the only lights that will be available to keep it beleiveable are car headlights, moonlight, a flourescent handheld light and starlight. One of my concerns is finding a camera that will shoot under those lighting conditions within reason.

December 21st, 2003, 09:09 PM	#42
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Unless you boost the gain signficantly which is not ideal, no camera I know of will produce a satisfactory image in moonlight. At best you will have very slight separation in the shadow areas. What if you found a stretch of highway that had a billboard with its own lights on it? The car could "conveniently" stop nearby--this would perhaps give you some more separation in the background. The headlights can be used creatively if you use bounce cards to redirect them. There are also inexpensive spotlights that power off the cigarette lighter available at auto shops; with some diffusion and/or gelling, this could make a nice accent light or backlight. The moonlight effect that we are used to for night exteriors is the result of 18,000 watt HMI's (or their equivalent) high up in Condor cranes up to half a mile away. It takes a lot of firepower to recreate moonlight! __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

December 22nd, 2003, 07:22 AM	#43
Carlos E. Martinez Trustee Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil Posts: 1,138	Re: Moonlight Video Scene <<<-- Originally posted by Arthur John : Can you shoot a reasonable video in moonlight? Can a VX2100 or GL2 shoot decent video in moonilght? The reason I ask, is that I've been woorking on a screenplay where a very important scene takes place in the desert on a lonely stretch of highway, and the only lights that will be available to keep it beleiveable are car headlights, moonlight, a flourescent handheld light and starlight. One of my concerns is finding a camera that will shoot under those lighting conditions within reason. -->>> Real moonlight is out of the question. You can do day for night and get away with it, particularly if there are no modern references around. One thing you will have to pick is if you want moonlight to be white or blue. You can fake that on the camera by doing white balance on white or yellowish cards. The next thing is the car headlights. If you balance for them to come out white, the rest will be quite blue. If you balance for the day light you will have the headlights more yellow. You can pick a car with xenon headlights, which should help balance the whole thing. What comes next is the headlights output, which should be minimum in daylight. Xenons will be better there too, but those headlights won't light anything, just show they are on. You should use a grad filter to keep skies dark. To get a real headlight output you will have to shoot those car scenes in the "magic hour", where daylight starts going away but still prints. On such situation the headlights will print strong and light where they pass by. The only problem is you will have little time to shoot those shots. Planning them should be essential. Of course that lighting it all would be a second choice, but that is certainly very expensive. There's a third choice, which is shooting in black and white and adding a blue tint in postproduction. That would solve the light color problem. There are a lot of good looking choices you can use. Carlos

December 24th, 2003, 12:14 AM	#44
Bryan Coffey Tourist Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Posts: 1	Sony Mini DV camera lighting Hello all! I am looking for help with my Sony DCR-TRV33. When using the camcorder, the image looks great on the LCD screen, but when I stream the camera or tape to my computer through USB, the picture is very dark. I just put on a video light, but the image is still considerably darker than the LCD. Is this a common problem with the Sony? Is there a simple solution? Thanks for reading. Bryan

December 24th, 2003, 07:11 AM	#45
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	It's a common "problem" with any camera being fed into a computer. Remember the LCD on the camera can be set to a brighter level AND the computer monitor is rarely set to a color bar standard so the image will almost always appear darker. That doesn't mean it is or that your exposure is wrong just that the screen should NEVER to used to adjust color or brightness or contrast levels. Check your footage on a regular NTSC monitor OR at the very least a TV that has been set to color bars and has the proper brightness&Contrast. I think you'll see a hugh difference. Happy Holidays, Don