The continuing softbox adventure at DVinfo.net

Josh Bass · October 9th, 2003, 02:03 PM

Ok, so I tried to use this softbox for the first time the other day, and noticed after having it on for 20 minutes or so that it was sagging in an unnatural way. After disassembling it and closely inspecting things, it seems the sag was caused by the plastic base around one of the rods attached to the speed ring melting.

Anyway, I asked the guy who sold it to me if has any rods with metal bases, but if he doesn't for some reason, anyone know where I can find 'em? The softbox itself seemed to be okay, except where it came in physical contact with the Tota-light inside it after sagging (flaking off of the reflective interior. . .burn marks).

I just need the rods. It's for a 24x36" box.

By the way, what separates those boxes made for strobe lighting from those made for hot lights?

Mike Rehmus · October 9th, 2003, 05:27 PM

In a word, materials.

I visited the Channel 7 news studio in San Francisco. They use softboxes made for use with strobes because they like the light. But they admitted to having a few fire extinguishers handy all the time.

You have to have all-metal construction. Plastic just won't make it when you use a softbox with halogen lights.

Josh Bass · October 9th, 2003, 07:44 PM

Sorry, all metal construction where? You mean the speed ring and support rods?

Mike Rehmus · October 9th, 2003, 08:02 PM

Yes, the rods and ring. I don't think the plastics they use for intake manifolds on automobile engines would last for long.

Maybe if you had a fan on the setup plastic would survive but then you'd have the fan noise to contend with.

My portable softbox is all metal and the fabric is really heat-proof.

Ken Tanaka · October 9th, 2003, 08:48 PM

Josh,
When I was first looking into softboxes I, too, considered getting a unit that did not specifically say it was designed for "continuous lighting". Ultimately I shrugged, ponied-up for the extra scratch and got a Photoflex. Many months later I was watching a fashion photo shoot and noticed that their strobe boxes were, indeed, manufactured quite differently than my Photoflex or my Chimera.

As Mike said, "materials".

Josh Bass · October 10th, 2003, 12:55 AM

Well, the speed ring is from photoflex, and the rods are metal, it's the thick part at the base of each rod that is plastic. . .i just need some aluminum tipped rods or just the aluminum tubing to fit around the bare metal

As for the box, like I said, it was on for 15-20 minutes in my estimation, and seemed fine except where it physically touched the tota after sagging. If I turn out to be wrong, oh well, I'll get a real photoflex box. . .can't be too expensive if I don't get a light or a speed ring with it.

Mike Rehmus · October 10th, 2003, 11:29 AM

As long as any problem you might have happens when there isn't a customer around, you'd probably be OK.

But if the box goes up in flames and/or it causes damage, you could be in for some problems.

I'd certainly keep a fire extinguisher handy.

What you will probably see is the fabric will delaminate and discolor over time.

Might not be too late to sell what you have to a still photog and get a setup rated for continuous use.

John Jackman · October 10th, 2003, 08:16 PM

Josh, you don't mention what brand the softbox is. Sounds like you have a strobe bag instead of a hot light unit. Phtoflex hot light bags have metal rod ends.

You may also be using higher wattage in the box than it is rated for. Softbanks are rated for heat, larger ones can handle more watts. Though I think most 24x36 bags would be rated at around 1000 watts -- IF they are for hot lights.

Whoever is doing the lighting at Channel 7 in SF is a moron. There is no difference in light quality between the strobe units and the hot light units, only heat rating. I truly hate to see an unsafe situation justified in such an asinine way.

Bryan Beasleigh · October 10th, 2003, 08:51 PM

I have a Photoflex softbox, speedring and rods and i can assure you there is no danger of anything melting. This scenario is why i refuse to buy anything except from a reputable retailer. I will buy online but there has to be a bricks and mortar establishment at the end of the line.

In an effort to salvage the situation, it is important to know exactly what brand and model each of the components are. We know you have a Tota and you say it's a photoflex speedring. Worst case is $180 for a new brimstone lined soft box and the metal rods that come with it. Brimstone is the fabric that the Photoflex silverdome is made out of and believe me it doesn't flake. The westcott and chimera are also great stuff but cost more.

Wayne Orr · October 10th, 2003, 08:53 PM

Seems to me Josh must shoulder some of the blame for his predicament. This thread has really been going on for a few pages under different names, winding inexorably to this unhappy conclusion. Buying gear piecemeal off the internet, in an effort to save money and be "clever," can yield poor results. Josh has received some good advice along the way, from people like Richard Veil of Chimera, which he has chosen to ignore as he marches to his own drummer. Now, it appears he has been sold the wrong gear from some fellow on e-bay who does not care whether Josh burns down the house or not; he just wants his cash.

I fully understand the desire to save money, but the old saw about being "pennywise and pound foolish" certainly applies in this instance. Before you can buy piece-by-piece, you best know what it is exactly you are after.

Sorry if it sounds like I am picking on you Josh, but I have helped you enough in the past to call you on this one. Hopefully, others will learn from your experience.

Wayne Orr, SOC

Josh Bass · October 10th, 2003, 10:53 PM

Well, as I said, this is a brandless box. . .the seller said, and still says, it works for up to 1000 watts of continuous light. However, he now tells me, this is with his universal speed ring, not the photoflex one which I bought. His speed ring has two parts that keep heat transmission between light and ring way down. However, as there was no way to attach a Tota to the one he was selling, I purchased the photoflex ring.

Of course I accept some responsibility, but having bought 15 or so items off "the bay" and having had no problems 'til just now, I'll keep with it.

John Jackman · October 11th, 2003, 09:07 PM

If the rib tips are plastic, he fibs.

Some things aren't worth saving a couple of bucks.

Josh Bass · October 11th, 2003, 10:22 PM

Sigh. . .you're probably right.

It isn't a couple of bucks though. The cheapest softbox I'd be interested in (medium silverdome or movie dome is around $250.

While it was on. . .it was such a beautiful quality of light. . .so it quite pisses me off.

Bryan Beasleigh · October 12th, 2003, 01:32 AM

Josh
the medium siverdome is $180 at B&H and the cinedome is $190. For the $179.95 the medium silverdome comes with a kit.

All due respects , but you've been given this info before. I know because i gave it to you. You've been given the correct info yet you choose not to listen. When the shortcut backfires, it becomes a catastrophe everytime.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=152322&is=REG

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=197002&is=REG

Josh Bass · October 12th, 2003, 09:44 AM

The cinedome's only meant for fresnels, though, right?

Also, it says the silverdome will handle up to 400 degrees Farenheit. Will my Tota be okay in there, even if I lamp it up to 750 watts?

I lost $55 and melted some plastic. . .catastrophe's a little dramatic, don't you think?

I'd just like to conclude by thanking everyone involved for making me feel extraordinarily stupid, instead of just mildly so.

October 9th, 2003, 02:03 PM	#1
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	The continuing softbox adventure Ok, so I tried to use this softbox for the first time the other day, and noticed after having it on for 20 minutes or so that it was sagging in an unnatural way. After disassembling it and closely inspecting things, it seems the sag was caused by the plastic base around one of the rods attached to the speed ring melting. Anyway, I asked the guy who sold it to me if has any rods with metal bases, but if he doesn't for some reason, anyone know where I can find 'em? The softbox itself seemed to be okay, except where it came in physical contact with the Tota-light inside it after sagging (flaking off of the reflective interior. . .burn marks). I just need the rods. It's for a 24x36" box. By the way, what separates those boxes made for strobe lighting from those made for hot lights? __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

October 9th, 2003, 05:27 PM	#2
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	In a word, materials. I visited the Channel 7 news studio in San Francisco. They use softboxes made for use with strobes because they like the light. But they admitted to having a few fire extinguishers handy all the time. You have to have all-metal construction. Plastic just won't make it when you use a softbox with halogen lights. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

October 9th, 2003, 07:44 PM	#3
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Sorry, all metal construction where? You mean the speed ring and support rods? __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

October 9th, 2003, 08:02 PM	#4
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	Yes, the rods and ring. I don't think the plastics they use for intake manifolds on automobile engines would last for long. Maybe if you had a fan on the setup plastic would survive but then you'd have the fan noise to contend with. My portable softbox is all metal and the fabric is really heat-proof. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

October 9th, 2003, 08:48 PM	#5
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Josh, When I was first looking into softboxes I, too, considered getting a unit that did not specifically say it was designed for "continuous lighting". Ultimately I shrugged, ponied-up for the extra scratch and got a Photoflex. Many months later I was watching a fashion photo shoot and noticed that their strobe boxes were, indeed, manufactured quite differently than my Photoflex or my Chimera. As Mike said, "materials". __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

October 10th, 2003, 12:55 AM	#6
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Well, the speed ring is from photoflex, and the rods are metal, it's the thick part at the base of each rod that is plastic. . .i just need some aluminum tipped rods or just the aluminum tubing to fit around the bare metal As for the box, like I said, it was on for 15-20 minutes in my estimation, and seemed fine except where it physically touched the tota after sagging. If I turn out to be wrong, oh well, I'll get a real photoflex box. . .can't be too expensive if I don't get a light or a speed ring with it. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

October 10th, 2003, 11:29 AM	#7
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	As long as any problem you might have happens when there isn't a customer around, you'd probably be OK. But if the box goes up in flames and/or it causes damage, you could be in for some problems. I'd certainly keep a fire extinguisher handy. What you will probably see is the fabric will delaminate and discolor over time. Might not be too late to sell what you have to a still photog and get a setup rated for continuous use. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

October 10th, 2003, 08:16 PM	#8
John Jackman Great DV dot com Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Lewisville, NC Posts: 78	Josh, you don't mention what brand the softbox is. Sounds like you have a strobe bag instead of a hot light unit. Phtoflex hot light bags have metal rod ends. You may also be using higher wattage in the box than it is rated for. Softbanks are rated for heat, larger ones can handle more watts. Though I think most 24x36 bags would be rated at around 1000 watts -- IF they are for hot lights. Whoever is doing the lighting at Channel 7 in SF is a moron. There is no difference in light quality between the strobe units and the hot light units, only heat rating. I truly hate to see an unsafe situation justified in such an asinine way. __________________ John Jackman www.johnjackman.com

October 10th, 2003, 08:51 PM	#9
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	I have a Photoflex softbox, speedring and rods and i can assure you there is no danger of anything melting. This scenario is why i refuse to buy anything except from a reputable retailer. I will buy online but there has to be a bricks and mortar establishment at the end of the line. In an effort to salvage the situation, it is important to know exactly what brand and model each of the components are. We know you have a Tota and you say it's a photoflex speedring. Worst case is $180 for a new brimstone lined soft box and the metal rods that come with it. Brimstone is the fabric that the Photoflex silverdome is made out of and believe me it doesn't flake. The westcott and chimera are also great stuff but cost more.

October 10th, 2003, 08:53 PM	#10
Wayne Orr Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Northridge Ca Posts: 734	Seems to me Josh must shoulder some of the blame for his predicament. This thread has really been going on for a few pages under different names, winding inexorably to this unhappy conclusion. Buying gear piecemeal off the internet, in an effort to save money and be "clever," can yield poor results. Josh has received some good advice along the way, from people like Richard Veil of Chimera, which he has chosen to ignore as he marches to his own drummer. Now, it appears he has been sold the wrong gear from some fellow on e-bay who does not care whether Josh burns down the house or not; he just wants his cash. I fully understand the desire to save money, but the old saw about being "pennywise and pound foolish" certainly applies in this instance. Before you can buy piece-by-piece, you best know what it is exactly you are after. Sorry if it sounds like I am picking on you Josh, but I have helped you enough in the past to call you on this one. Hopefully, others will learn from your experience. Wayne Orr, SOC

October 10th, 2003, 10:53 PM	#11
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Well, as I said, this is a brandless box. . .the seller said, and still says, it works for up to 1000 watts of continuous light. However, he now tells me, this is with his universal speed ring, not the photoflex one which I bought. His speed ring has two parts that keep heat transmission between light and ring way down. However, as there was no way to attach a Tota to the one he was selling, I purchased the photoflex ring. Of course I accept some responsibility, but having bought 15 or so items off "the bay" and having had no problems 'til just now, I'll keep with it. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

October 11th, 2003, 09:07 PM	#12
John Jackman Great DV dot com Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Lewisville, NC Posts: 78	If the rib tips are plastic, he fibs. Some things aren't worth saving a couple of bucks. __________________ John Jackman www.johnjackman.com

October 11th, 2003, 10:22 PM	#13
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Sigh. . .you're probably right. It isn't a couple of bucks though. The cheapest softbox I'd be interested in (medium silverdome or movie dome is around $250. While it was on. . .it was such a beautiful quality of light. . .so it quite pisses me off. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

October 12th, 2003, 01:32 AM	#14
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	Josh the medium siverdome is $180 at B&H and the cinedome is $190. For the $179.95 the medium silverdome comes with a kit. All due respects , but you've been given this info before. I know because i gave it to you. You've been given the correct info yet you choose not to listen. When the shortcut backfires, it becomes a catastrophe everytime. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=152322&is=REG http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=197002&is=REG

October 12th, 2003, 09:44 AM	#15
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	The cinedome's only meant for fresnels, though, right? Also, it says the silverdome will handle up to 400 degrees Farenheit. Will my Tota be okay in there, even if I lamp it up to 750 watts? I lost $55 and melted some plastic. . .catastrophe's a little dramatic, don't you think? I'd just like to conclude by thanking everyone involved for making me feel extraordinarily stupid, instead of just mildly so. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB