Everything I ever wanted to know about lighting

John Gaspain · November 17th, 2003, 09:19 PM

wow Stephen, that is a great site you have. I read all the lighting pages and feel like I have a handle on it now.

Thanks!

Charles Papert · November 18th, 2003, 12:00 AM

Mike:

Best way to avoid shadows behind your subjects is simply to move them away from the wall!

For the glasses issue, raise the lights as high as possible without the shadows getting too deep on the face. Also moving your lights off axis so that the highlights, if still present, don't cover the pupils. Sometimes you can get the subject to angle the glasses down on their nose, or slide the ends of the frames higher up on the ears into the hair to help kick out the reflection.

Mike Morrell · November 18th, 2003, 01:30 AM

Thanks Charles. For this one interview that I had, we had to do it in their office which was VERY small. Moving the subject away from the wall was not an option and the ceilings were very low too. So I guess that I did not do too bad considering the challenges of the environment. I think that I am improving each time out and this is due in large part to the contributions people have provided me here. Thanks again everyone. I'm sure to have more questions in the coming weeks.

Charles Papert · November 18th, 2003, 02:07 AM

Gotcha. Well, if there is no other option but shoot against the wall, try to light so that the shadows are thrown out of frame, or at least blocked by their own bodies. Keeping your keys high will help achieve the latter.

This may not be applicable in this case, but back in my corporate shooting days, I would occasional have a job where the individual was convinced that they knew what the best environment to be shot in was, which was usually the ugliest space in the building. Sometimes they could be coaxed into the atrium or conference room or somewhere that had at least a little character and physical depth, and of course they loved the results.

Nick Medrano · February 20th, 2004, 08:53 PM

Okay, I interviewed a subject and the light was reflected off his glasses. So, how can I fix this in post?????

Mike Morrell · February 21st, 2004, 06:18 AM

Depending on how much reflection exists, it may be neer impossible. I've done this a lot in photoshop for stills and its hard to make it look natural for a single still if the reflection is so great that there is no detail in the "flash" spot. IF you had to do this for many frames of video, even in after-effects, I think that it probably would not look very good or be very time consuming to rotoscope. But if anyone has done this successfully, I'd like to know how to do it too.

Scott Spears · February 21st, 2004, 10:58 AM

Stephen,

I have to second the praise for your site. Great stuff, simply presented and goes the extra yard to show variartions. A great teaching tool.

Scott

Mike Morrell · April 27th, 2004, 09:58 AM

I've got a short shoot this week with an African American celebrity. My previous attempts to properly light darker skin tones were not 100% successful. Are there any tips for properly lighting dark skin tones? I'll be using a green screen background and a white background for this shoot.

I use a 750 watt tota as my key light. I have 2 500w omni lights and 2 tungsten 250w lights. I have white and silver umbrellas and gold and silver reflectors.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

Stephen Schleicher · April 27th, 2004, 10:09 AM

Don't use a hard light. Use a diffused light source to light the subject. Think reflections in this case. If you were lighting a glass object, you wouldn't want to light with a hard specular, you would want a large soft specular to define the object. The same goes for dark skin.

Cheers

Stephen Schleicher
www.mindspring.com/~schleicher

Mike Morrell · April 27th, 2004, 10:37 AM

Stephen, thanks for your quick response and for all of your previous help with my lighting questions on this thread.

Should I forgo to total light altogether or diffuse it through an (silver) umbrella or bounce it off a reflector? To aid or maybe make things more difficult, the studio has defused skylights and the time of day may yield significant daylight during the shoot.

Stephen Schleicher · April 27th, 2004, 10:42 AM

Umbrellas and diffusion material will work great with the tota lights. Just don't go bare. Bill Holshevnicov (spelling) has an excellent video that talks about lighting those with darker complections.

Actually in the May issue of DV, there is a pretty good article on lighting subjects with dark complections too. Worth reading.

Cheers

Stephen Schleicher
www.mindspring.com/~schleicher

Stephen Schleicher · April 27th, 2004, 10:48 AM

DVCreators.net has just released their DV Enlightenment series on DVD today. They were showing previews at NAB last week, and I was able to snag a review copy (I'll have a review up on my site by weeks end).

It is a very fine put together intro to lighting covering nearly everything my Lighting 101 and Lighting 201 written series covers. The bonus is you get to see these lighting results as they happen and get to see actual video instead of still images. Josh and the crew did a great job in presenting the material covering this entry level topic.

They do light dark skin in the video, but do not touch on how they did it.

Overall a great DVD and well worth the price.

Cheers

Stephen Schleicher
www.mindspring.com/~schleicher

Mike Morrell · April 27th, 2004, 10:56 AM

Thanks, I'll check out the video and this month's DV article. I have not opened the new DV yet...

Mike Morrell · April 29th, 2004, 07:35 PM

Stephen, thanks for the help. I had my shoot today and I think that the lighting went OK. It was not perfect but I think it was acceptable and better than I have done before, I think. Here is frame sample. http://www.bigdigital.us/bb

Stephen Schleicher · April 29th, 2004, 08:47 PM

Actually that's not too bad at all! The main problem I see with the image (and it may be intential on your part), is that you have a huge contrast between your foregound subject and your background.

If you were going for that look, I still think it is okay (although a strong rim/back light would have helped a bit more). If you were not going for that look, you could have used a rim light for a nicer seperation (amber maybe?), and you could have given more depth to the image by breaking up the background with a pattern of some type.

Again, I think the image is good, and if that is the look you were going for then right on right on!

Cheers

November 17th, 2003, 09:19 PM	#16
John Gaspain Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: WA-USA Posts: 371	wow Stephen, that is a great site you have. I read all the lighting pages and feel like I have a handle on it now. Thanks! __________________ The glory of the World passes by.

November 18th, 2003, 12:00 AM	#17
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Mike: Best way to avoid shadows behind your subjects is simply to move them away from the wall! For the glasses issue, raise the lights as high as possible without the shadows getting too deep on the face. Also moving your lights off axis so that the highlights, if still present, don't cover the pupils. Sometimes you can get the subject to angle the glasses down on their nose, or slide the ends of the frames higher up on the ears into the hair to help kick out the reflection. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

November 18th, 2003, 02:07 AM	#19
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Gotcha. Well, if there is no other option but shoot against the wall, try to light so that the shadows are thrown out of frame, or at least blocked by their own bodies. Keeping your keys high will help achieve the latter. This may not be applicable in this case, but back in my corporate shooting days, I would occasional have a job where the individual was convinced that they knew what the best environment to be shot in was, which was usually the ugliest space in the building. Sometimes they could be coaxed into the atrium or conference room or somewhere that had at least a little character and physical depth, and of course they loved the results. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

February 21st, 2004, 10:58 AM	#22
Scott Spears Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 65	Stephen, I have to second the praise for your site. Great stuff, simply presented and goes the extra yard to show variartions. A great teaching tool. Scott __________________ Scott Spears Emmy Winner Cinematographer http://www.scottspears.net IMDB listing: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0817387/

April 27th, 2004, 09:58 AM	#23
Mike Morrell Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Norcross GA Posts: 119	Lighting for skin tones I've got a short shoot this week with an African American celebrity. My previous attempts to properly light darker skin tones were not 100% successful. Are there any tips for properly lighting dark skin tones? I'll be using a green screen background and a white background for this shoot. I use a 750 watt tota as my key light. I have 2 500w omni lights and 2 tungsten 250w lights. I have white and silver umbrellas and gold and silver reflectors. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

November 18th, 2003, 01:30 AM	#18
Mike Morrell Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Norcross GA Posts: 119	Thanks Charles. For this one interview that I had, we had to do it in their office which was VERY small. Moving the subject away from the wall was not an option and the ceilings were very low too. So I guess that I did not do too bad considering the challenges of the environment. I think that I am improving each time out and this is due in large part to the contributions people have provided me here. Thanks again everyone. I'm sure to have more questions in the coming weeks.

February 20th, 2004, 08:53 PM	#20
Nick Medrano Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 331	Okay, I interviewed a subject and the light was reflected off his glasses. So, how can I fix this in post?????

February 21st, 2004, 06:18 AM	#21
Mike Morrell Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Norcross GA Posts: 119	Depending on how much reflection exists, it may be neer impossible. I've done this a lot in photoshop for stills and its hard to make it look natural for a single still if the reflection is so great that there is no detail in the "flash" spot. IF you had to do this for many frames of video, even in after-effects, I think that it probably would not look very good or be very time consuming to rotoscope. But if anyone has done this successfully, I'd like to know how to do it too.

April 27th, 2004, 10:09 AM	#24
Stephen Schleicher Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Hays, KS Posts: 188	Don't use a hard light. Use a diffused light source to light the subject. Think reflections in this case. If you were lighting a glass object, you wouldn't want to light with a hard specular, you would want a large soft specular to define the object. The same goes for dark skin. Cheers Stephen Schleicher www.mindspring.com/~schleicher __________________ Stephen Schleicher www.stephenschleicher.com

April 27th, 2004, 10:37 AM	#25
Mike Morrell Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Norcross GA Posts: 119	Stephen, thanks for your quick response and for all of your previous help with my lighting questions on this thread. Should I forgo to total light altogether or diffuse it through an (silver) umbrella or bounce it off a reflector? To aid or maybe make things more difficult, the studio has defused skylights and the time of day may yield significant daylight during the shoot.

April 27th, 2004, 10:42 AM	#26
Stephen Schleicher Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Hays, KS Posts: 188	Umbrellas and diffusion material will work great with the tota lights. Just don't go bare. Bill Holshevnicov (spelling) has an excellent video that talks about lighting those with darker complections. Actually in the May issue of DV, there is a pretty good article on lighting subjects with dark complections too. Worth reading. Cheers Stephen Schleicher www.mindspring.com/~schleicher __________________ Stephen Schleicher www.stephenschleicher.com

April 27th, 2004, 10:48 AM	#27
Stephen Schleicher Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Hays, KS Posts: 188	DVCreators.net has just released their DV Enlightenment series on DVD today. They were showing previews at NAB last week, and I was able to snag a review copy (I'll have a review up on my site by weeks end). It is a very fine put together intro to lighting covering nearly everything my Lighting 101 and Lighting 201 written series covers. The bonus is you get to see these lighting results as they happen and get to see actual video instead of still images. Josh and the crew did a great job in presenting the material covering this entry level topic. They do light dark skin in the video, but do not touch on how they did it. Overall a great DVD and well worth the price. Cheers Stephen Schleicher www.mindspring.com/~schleicher __________________ Stephen Schleicher www.stephenschleicher.com

April 27th, 2004, 10:56 AM	#28
Mike Morrell Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Norcross GA Posts: 119	Thanks, I'll check out the video and this month's DV article. I have not opened the new DV yet...

April 29th, 2004, 07:35 PM	#29
Mike Morrell Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Norcross GA Posts: 119	Stephen, thanks for the help. I had my shoot today and I think that the lighting went OK. It was not perfect but I think it was acceptable and better than I have done before, I think. Here is frame sample. http://www.bigdigital.us/bb

April 29th, 2004, 08:47 PM	#30
Stephen Schleicher Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Hays, KS Posts: 188	Actually that's not too bad at all! The main problem I see with the image (and it may be intential on your part), is that you have a huge contrast between your foregound subject and your background. If you were going for that look, I still think it is okay (although a strong rim/back light would have helped a bit more). If you were not going for that look, you could have used a rim light for a nicer seperation (amber maybe?), and you could have given more depth to the image by breaking up the background with a pattern of some type. Again, I think the image is good, and if that is the look you were going for then right on right on! Cheers __________________ Stephen Schleicher www.stephenschleicher.com