fakin' da moon

[Josh Bass]

Last night, I tried and failed to light a scene using "moonlight" as well as some other sources. I'm not buying a 5k or 16k light or anything, so I need some advice on faking the moon, on somewhat wide shots (if possible) as well as closeups, with what I currently own. If there's something simple, like rigging up a bedsheet for diffusion, that's ok, but I'm not buying more expensive crap.

Anyway, here's what I have: Two Lowel tota lights, a 650w fresnel, an Arri 300, and four stands, two of which go up to 13 feet. I have a Lee quick location gel pack, and that's it. Can you tell me any way to effectively fake moonlight with what I've got? What are the characteristics of it, that make it look real or fake? Here in Houston, we don't see moonlight much, and I haven't been anywhere where you can in a loooooooong time. Help!

If I can't do this with moonlight, how would suggest lighting exterior night scenes somewhat convincingly using what I have?

[Gints Klimanis]

I have some 18000 K flourescent lights on my aquariium used in a T12/10 ballast. They're blueish, but they don't give the feel of moonlight.

[Rob Belics]

You could rent the lights but that won't be cheap for a 10k or more. Like $150 to $200.

And what do you mean they don't have the moon in Texas?

[Aaron Koolen]

I'm gonna risk sounding stupid here, but could you do something with a car's headlights. Gel them with 1/4 CTB or something and diffuse and bounce the light onto the actors? Maybe trying to get the car higher up than them if you can.

Never tried it so have no idea if it's doable or whether it's as stupid an idea as it sounds. Maybe it wouldn't be any stronger than your current lights.

Cheers
Aaron

[Richard Veil]

1. You could use your tota lights with some blue gel and work the white balance and exposure to get the look you desire. I would suggest a single tota at a distance. u will have to experiment for the right effect. You may want to get a shot of the moon to cut to so the audience gets the idea that the subject is lit by moon light.

2. you can shoot in daylight at adust your exposure and white balance to try to get the look you want. Try using blue gels in from of the lens when you white balance. they do this kind of effect in films all the time by underexposing.

I hope this gives u some ideas to try

[Alex Knappenberger]

<<<-- Originally posted by Richard Veil : 1. You could use your tota lights with some blue gel and work the white balance and exposure to get the look you desire. I would suggest a single tota at a distance. u will have to experiment for the right effect. You may want to get a shot of the moon to cut to so the audience gets the idea that the subject is lit by moon light.

2. you can shoot in daylight at adust your exposure and white balance to try to get the look you want. Try using blue gels in from of the lens when you white balance. they do this kind of effect in films all the time by underexposing.

I hope this gives u some ideas to try -->>>


My attempts at day for night shooting have been unsuccessful.

1. You have to frame the shot so you don't get any sky in the shot, because then you will see clouds and the sky will be much brighter, and it doesn't look like night at all, just darkened (underexposed)

2. It reminds me of lots of 70's films, since this technique was popular then...

Otherwise, if you do it at dawn, or sunset, and don't get any sky in the shot, then it can look good...

[Josh Bass]

First off, no renting. The biggest problem I had last time I tried this is that though I was able to easily light the group of actors and their immediate surroundings, the background was still totally dark. This particular background happened to be a lake and the houses across the lake from us.

Also, though totas throw the broadest spread, when you gel them, the gel has to be in a frame about six inches in front of the the light. The spill from the sides of the tota causes difficulty, as it's 3200k light, and not the same as whatever's being filtered through the gel. I just don't feel day for night is viable--I've seen the 3200k white balance under sunlight, and it still doesn't look quite right, even if you don't see the sky.

I didn't mean to say we don't have the moon in Texas, I meant to say that here in Houston, and in the areas fairly far outside of Houston, the light pollution overpowers the moonlight.

[Charles Papert]

Josh:

Working with a limited lighting package like you described will obviously force a limitation on the type of shooting you can successfully pull off for night lighting. A scene that takes place (for instance) outside a house, where the background is mostly shooting back at the house, will be pretty easily manageable; a wide vista such as a lake is going to require a whole different approach. If such things could be shot for night with a small tungsten package, that's how it would be done (rather than 12K balloons, Musco lights and the like).

The best advice I can give is that you light the foreground and SOMETHING in the background to create depth. It may even require finding a location that already has enough existing light in the background to read on camera (a billboard, a playground or field with light poles, a bright parking lot, etc) which you can augment with your package in the foreground.

Barring that: Aaron's idea about the headlights may work for this: if the car is parked so that its lights play on the background, that may be a workeable solution. Or, those legendary cheap Home Depot worklights that I hear about all the time in this forum..I'd use a much stronger blue than 1/4 CTB though. Even a full blue doesn't really look all that "moonlighty". Check out some mid-grade theatrical blues for that, but be aware that you will lose a lot of level with these.

Tthe point is that the background light need not be a film light--whatever it takes to get illumination out there, which will create depth in the picture.

[John Locke]

Josh,

Drive to Austin and film at night using the light from the "Moon Towers" that exist in the old town area (they really exist and were made back at the turn of the century...tall towers with several bright lights in a ring to simulate moonlight).

But since I know that probably is too far a drive, follow the advice already given...and all you have to do to solve the "light spill" problem is use more gels taped together. If that isn't enough to take care of the problem, get some black foil. The two combined oughta do the trick.

[John Threat]

I recommomend these for closeups to fake the moon on the cheap.

http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS...ductOID=529712

Headlights with CTB is a brilliant idea, if you can get the car elevated than you win. If you can get a car with HID's, then you really win.

[Michael Morlan]

If you are using your smaller lights, you'll want every photon available to illum your scene. Rather than throwing a 1/4 CTB over the light, white balance your camera with a 1/4 CTO gel in front of your lens and keep the lights at tungsten balance. Remove the 1/4 CTO and, voila, you've got bluish light in your frame.

m

[Josh Bass]

But what if you want other colors of light. . .like a porch light from a house, or the glow from a window?

[John Locke]

Josh,

Rent "Bandits" with Bruce Willis and Billy Bob Thornton. They've got some good examples of the lighting you're looking for (look at the "bar on the beach" scene and the "dance on the beach in the moolight" scene).

With both of these, it looks like they white-balanced for the tungsten lighting, then shot the scenes after the sun had dropped past the horizon. The result is that the outdoor shots are really blue, giving it a moonlit appearance, while the lights and neon in the bar have a lot of warmth.

[Josh Bass]

I've seen bandits. . .don't remember the lighting though. I'll try it next time the issue comes up. Thanks.