Lighting a campfire scene

Alex Dunn · July 14th, 2003, 02:47 PM

I need to light a scene where the set is Ext. Night with 5 actors around a campfire (all else is dark) and it's in a forest.

I'm probably going to shoot with a GL2 with the F's wide open and no Gain (I don't want a hint of video noise). I may even shoot it with an Arri 16mm, but that's pretty slim. Either way, I'm looking for advice on placement and/or color advice for realism.

I'll probably put a back light with some blue gels (high angle) to simulate moonlight, but the fire alone is not going to light the faces.

Any advice would help, Thanks!

Rob Lohman · July 15th, 2003, 06:46 AM

Do you NEED to shoot it at night? Perhaps you can better shoot
it at dusk or dawn for example?

Stewart McDonald · July 15th, 2003, 07:06 AM

What is "F's wide open and no Gain?"
I'm still learning about the wonder that is GL2 :)

Thanks

Richard Alvarez · July 15th, 2003, 07:11 AM

Depending on your shot design, I would thinmk a "chinese lantern" would do the trick. This is a large paper globe with a high intensity light in it. It is usually suspended on a pole, held above the shot like the mike boom. This will give you more "fill" while allowing the fire to add the flicker. The blue backlights will add a nice touch.

Alex Dunn · July 15th, 2003, 07:55 AM

No, it doesn't have to be done at night, but I had hoped to do it at night for ambience reasons. I'd like to help the actors as much as I can. They need to be scared!

The Chinese Globe idea is good. Would you suggest a gold/orange to give that warm fire side glow? I was thinking of at least one 300w baby with some yellow/orange gel down low for fill light on the faces. Would anybody disagree with that?

I also read the article on DV.com about lighting the woods at night. There's good stuff in there about how to light the trees.

Adrian Douglas · July 15th, 2003, 08:16 AM

Stewart,

"Fs" is refering to the F-stop and is indicated by a number like f2.8. It refers to how open the iris, or the apature in still cameras, is. On the GL I think its about f1.8. The f-stop affects the amount of light that gets passed to the capture medium, in this case the CCDs or charge coupled devices. It also affects the depth of field. Think of it like a garden hose, when you put your thumb over the end of the hose you get a sharp, fine spray, with a small f-stop, f8-f16, your entire frame will be sharp. If you don't put your finger over the end of the hose you get a softer stream, with a large f-stop, f5.6-f1.8 your image has only a small area that is sharp and the background or foreground is soft or out of focus. This is a loose description as there are lots of other factors that affect the DOF such as CCD size but that's a different kettle of fish.

As for gain, the signal can be strenghtened or weakened using the gain. Increasing the gain mean you will require less light to be able to see detail in your shot but the image quality suffers from the affect of video noise, or a sort of grainy image. Decreasing the gain or leaving it at 0 means your image will be clean but you will need more light to correctly expouse the shot.

If you do a search on DOF you will find lots of discussion on the subject or check out The Ultimate DOF Skinny by Jeff Donald on the DV Info Net main site.

John Locke · July 15th, 2003, 08:34 AM

Alex,

I just now saw a nicely shot campfire scene on the movie channel here..."The Brave" with Johnny Depp and Marlon Brando. Looks like they had one or more bright lights off to one side with blue filters to simulate moonlight. They were pretty bright, and Johnny Depp was facing toward them. In front of him was the fire which they made teepee style to get a nice high, intense flame.

The result looks good...and even though this film was shot on film, I'm betting there's enough light there the way they lit it for video.

Alex Dunn · July 15th, 2003, 09:15 AM

Thanks John, I'll check out that film.

Adrian, for the record, the GL2 will open up to F1.6 as long as it's not zoomed too tight. (Just FYI)

Adrian Douglas · July 15th, 2003, 08:48 PM

Thanks Alex, as I don't have a GL I wasn't 100% sure.

July 14th, 2003, 02:47 PM	#1
Alex Dunn Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 202	Lighting a campfire scene - Need suggestions I need to light a scene where the set is Ext. Night with 5 actors around a campfire (all else is dark) and it's in a forest. I'm probably going to shoot with a GL2 with the F's wide open and no Gain (I don't want a hint of video noise). I may even shoot it with an Arri 16mm, but that's pretty slim. Either way, I'm looking for advice on placement and/or color advice for realism. I'll probably put a back light with some blue gels (high angle) to simulate moonlight, but the fire alone is not going to light the faces. Any advice would help, Thanks!

July 15th, 2003, 06:46 AM	#2
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Do you NEED to shoot it at night? Perhaps you can better shoot it at dusk or dawn for example? __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

July 15th, 2003, 08:16 AM	#6
Adrian Douglas Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chigasaki, Japan. Posts: 1,660	Stewart, "Fs" is refering to the F-stop and is indicated by a number like f2.8. It refers to how open the iris, or the apature in still cameras, is. On the GL I think its about f1.8. The f-stop affects the amount of light that gets passed to the capture medium, in this case the CCDs or charge coupled devices. It also affects the depth of field. Think of it like a garden hose, when you put your thumb over the end of the hose you get a sharp, fine spray, with a small f-stop, f8-f16, your entire frame will be sharp. If you don't put your finger over the end of the hose you get a softer stream, with a large f-stop, f5.6-f1.8 your image has only a small area that is sharp and the background or foreground is soft or out of focus. This is a loose description as there are lots of other factors that affect the DOF such as CCD size but that's a different kettle of fish. As for gain, the signal can be strenghtened or weakened using the gain. Increasing the gain mean you will require less light to be able to see detail in your shot but the image quality suffers from the affect of video noise, or a sort of grainy image. Decreasing the gain or leaving it at 0 means your image will be clean but you will need more light to correctly expouse the shot. If you do a search on DOF you will find lots of discussion on the subject or check out The Ultimate DOF Skinny by Jeff Donald on the DV Info Net main site. __________________ Adrian DVInfo.net Search for quick answers Where to buy? From the best in the business...DVInfo.net sponsors

July 15th, 2003, 08:34 AM	#7
John Locke Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Austin, TX USA Posts: 2,882	Alex, I just now saw a nicely shot campfire scene on the movie channel here..."The Brave" with Johnny Depp and Marlon Brando. Looks like they had one or more bright lights off to one side with blue filters to simulate moonlight. They were pretty bright, and Johnny Depp was facing toward them. In front of him was the fire which they made teepee style to get a nice high, intense flame. The result looks good...and even though this film was shot on film, I'm betting there's enough light there the way they lit it for video. __________________ John Locke SursumFilms.com

July 15th, 2003, 08:48 PM	#9
Adrian Douglas Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chigasaki, Japan. Posts: 1,660	Thanks Alex, as I don't have a GL I wasn't 100% sure. __________________ Adrian DVInfo.net Search for quick answers Where to buy? From the best in the business...DVInfo.net sponsors

July 15th, 2003, 07:06 AM	#3
Stewart McDonald Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: UK Posts: 130	What is "F's wide open and no Gain?" I'm still learning about the wonder that is GL2 :) Thanks

July 15th, 2003, 07:11 AM	#4
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Depending on your shot design, I would thinmk a "chinese lantern" would do the trick. This is a large paper globe with a high intensity light in it. It is usually suspended on a pole, held above the shot like the mike boom. This will give you more "fill" while allowing the fire to add the flicker. The blue backlights will add a nice touch.

July 15th, 2003, 07:55 AM	#5
Alex Dunn Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 202	No, it doesn't have to be done at night, but I had hoped to do it at night for ambience reasons. I'd like to help the actors as much as I can. They need to be scared! The Chinese Globe idea is good. Would you suggest a gold/orange to give that warm fire side glow? I was thinking of at least one 300w baby with some yellow/orange gel down low for fill light on the faces. Would anybody disagree with that? I also read the article on DV.com about lighting the woods at night. There's good stuff in there about how to light the trees.

July 15th, 2003, 09:15 AM	#8
Alex Dunn Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 202	Thanks John, I'll check out that film. Adrian, for the record, the GL2 will open up to F1.6 as long as it's not zoomed too tight. (Just FYI)