Solid State lighting for Documentaries, Weddings and Event videography at DVinfo.net

Kaspar Kallas · November 19th, 2007, 10:03 AM

Hello

I am a part owner of an european company that has been mainly foucesed in film production/post-production. We have developed quite a few tools for inhouse use and would like to release some of them as comercial products.
1st one in line would be high-output Solid State Lights:
The protype is:
dimensions: roughy 6" in diameter (15cm), 10" deep (25cm)
weigh: 6.6 us pounds (3KG)
temp: 5600K

illumination: it seems the most difficult to answer because it depends from way too many factors (light source, build of the unit, lens etc.) - I use them as about 1/2 of arri 575 HMI.
But if anybody has ideas how to make some sensible test/masurements let me know.

I, my self use them with rather narrow lenses(lens per led) 12deg to get strong spot - and when I need soften I use either diffuser gel or bounce the light.

The lights can be mounted on manfrotto lightweight light tripods.
On c-stands they can mounted as banks if more output is needed.

I have done an interview in totally dark room just using 3 of these lights with SI2K mini and 12mm lens. The person was in frame from waist and there were no underexposed areas on the image (including background). Room was 4x6m so in US measurements 13x20foot.
Again if interest I could make fully documented tests.

The lights are very durable: you can seriousöy abuse the light and most damage you will accomplish is breake the front cover glass. The lights use 40V DC so we will provide AC-DC adapters as well DC-DC from 12V.

Right now we try to determine if there is enough interest for such product. If so would price for a unit sub 1000 USD be viable and what would be the best features for such product.

Thank You
-Kaspar Kallas

Kaspar Kallas · November 28th, 2007, 03:11 PM

Hi

I am bit confused about lumen per watt ratings of different technologies:
There is 200W Lowel:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...t_Fixture.html

that is rated "only" 50 lumens per watt. Is it because low wattage pulbs, 90w pulbs would yield a better ratio?

I cannot find any information about kinoflo lumen per watt ration - anybody know this?

I want know, can modern LED's be a match for fluorescent.

Thank You
-Kaspar

Alex Lucas · December 3rd, 2007, 05:37 PM

1700 lumens is equivalent to a 100w incandescent lightbulb. So that light is the equivalent of an incandescent 588W lightbulb. In other words, it's as strong as an omni light.

Effectively, well, at over 600USD that's not a lot of light for the money. Not when you can get a cheap Lowel DP light or Omni light with the daylight conversion glass. That's half the money. Spend the rest of the $300 on a photoflex softbox with speedring for the DP light or omni, and you have something that can be used in almost any situation.

LED, and other lights like that right now are just not good for the budget minded yet.

When the flourescents get cheaper or the LEDs get brighter, then it's going to replace traditional bulbs, just not yet.

Bill Pryor · December 19th, 2007, 10:41 PM

http://www.flolight.com/500LED.htm

Christopher Witz · December 20th, 2007, 11:57 AM

has anyone had a chance to use the 500 led light yet?

Jack Walker · December 20th, 2007, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Lucas

LED, and other lights like that right now are just not good for the budget minded yet.

Not long ago I was in a shop looking at an LED light that had about the same out put as a Zippo lighter. It cost about $900.

I asked who was using them. The guy that their good to hide all over the set and take out little shadows and add highlights here and there.

A little out of my ballpark.

Kaspar Kallas · December 27th, 2007, 04:02 AM

Hi

The 500LED seems interesting but only bit less than half the wattage, as we are using the brightest LED's possible right now it would mean also at least half the lumens.
As for progress on our own product we should have a home-page and possibility to order first batch of protos in the 3rd week of january.

Reason why I chose to build LED's for my work is extreme durability - and making a good doc on a go has meant broken bulbs for me more than I would like to count for.

I started this thread to get some input what feature would be absolute minimum needed and also what could be premium features? So we could actually build a product that is good for more than just one narrow field.

Thank You
-Kaspar Kallas

Jaron Berman · December 27th, 2007, 04:40 AM

Most people who have used them find the litepanels 1x1 to be an excellent light in every way except price. Even in its spot configuration, it's not particularly bright. The problem with the spot is that the beam itself is quite small, so to get coverage, it must be backed off significantly, therefore losing brightness. regardless, these things are used in every style of production. Very lightweight, and somewhat durable. The most commonly broken piece is the power connector.

If you're coming up with a new LED light, look at the best of what's out there, and start figuring out what you'd like to improve upon. Personally, I still prefer fluorescent to LEDs - far brighter, true daylight and true tungsten. But that's just me - and LEDs can be more portable.

Bill Pryor · December 27th, 2007, 11:15 AM

I've been using Lowel Caselight fluorescents for some time and like them a lot, especially for interviews. I was going to buy some fluorescents from Flolight but found the LEDs and ordered three of them. Supposedly they are slightly brighter than the 2-bulb fluorescent (with two 55 watt bulbs), have just a bit longer throw and are not quite as soft. I will have them in my hands in a couple of days and will see if all that's true.

I like the solid 5600K of the LEDs but that can be a disadvantage if you want to mix them with tungsten lights. However, I like to shoot everything daylight in nearly all cases. The cameras I use seem to look better with daylight settings; so I've been using CTB on my tungsten lights when mixing with daylight fluorescents.

The best value in fluorescents and also smaller HMIs is from Cool Lights, I think. I was set to order from them but the ones I wanted weren't in stock at the time. Then I found the LEDs. One nice thing about the LEDs is their smaller size and weight. These will be about half the size of a 2-bulb fluorescent and very light weight.

Bob Grant · December 27th, 2007, 02:31 PM

For a very nice light for docos and weddings you can't get anything better than the Zylight Z90. It's a bit big and heavy for palmcorders and certainly not cheap. However it's built like a tank and will outlast several generations of cameras so total cost of ownership is low if you take a long term view.

Bill Pryor · January 6th, 2008, 11:55 AM

I got my three sets of Flolight LED500 lights in a few days ago and did a shoot on Friday. Although smaller, thinner and overall more compact, as well as lighter than the equivalent 2-bulb fluorescent (such as the Lowel Caselight 2), they put out slightly more light. There is a little less falloff at the same distance, because they have a more focused beam. You don't get as wide a spread as the fluorescent, and if you put one in really close, like 5-6 feet, some light diffusion, like opal, is good. I did a side by side comparison with a Caselight 2, and at about 8 feet, the LED is close to a stop brighter; with the Caselight's highly reflective barn doors adjusted for amplification, the difference is about 1/4 stop. The LEDs have reflective barn doors, but they're the pebbled type and don't reflect as much as the polished kind. I guess you can say I'm now a convert from flos to LEDs. They're strictly 5600K, so if you want to mix them with tungsten, you'd have to CTB the tungsten or CTO the LEDs.

Jack Walker · January 6th, 2008, 03:05 PM

These look very good. Are they sufficiently sturdy to put a couple of them in a hard side suitcase and check on an airplane?

I am looking for something to use on interviews (as main lights and fill with windows) in Europe. Last trip I use Lowel lights. But I would something for interviews that pulls less current.

Will the lights work with both 110 and 220v?

Thanks!

Bill Pryor · January 6th, 2008, 05:51 PM

They are native AC and come with power supplies. If you're interested call Flolights and ask about the European standard. I think they probably have the right power supplies you can get. They're very friendly out there and don't mind answering questions at all. I found their customer service to be great. When I was discussing things with one of the guys, he said they switched to the DC powered lights (previous models had been AC) because lots of their customers wanted to use them in Europe. They sell a lot to TV networks.

If you put them in a suitcase with a little padding, they should travel fine. They feel more solid that fluorescents I've used. Since they're daylight, you can use them with the windows. That's what I do a lot on interviews--often keying with a window and filling with a light, or vice versa. Two of these should get you through most interviews. Your only problem would be stands. A couple of the small Lowel stands they include with their Caselights would probably fit in your suitcase, and since these are pretty light, those little stands would be sturdy enough.

Bill Pryor · January 6th, 2008, 05:53 PM

Oh...silly me...should have checked the web site:

-100-240v 50/60hz AC adapter included

That answers your question in the positive.

Jack Walker · January 6th, 2008, 08:11 PM

Thanks! Yes, I checked the website and saw they are 110-240. I'll have to call and see how heavy the adapters are.

Last trip I took four totas, two pros. a Photoflex soft box, with stands, reflectors, umbrellas, gel frames, etc. All fit nicely with other gear in the suitcase. I also took several of the Lowel clamps and mounted lights on whatever in place of stands (I think I took three stands.)

It looks like the LEDs would not be like to break when jostled in shipping.

The trouble with travelling with hotlights is not only finding the amps. You also have to take the extension cords to get to the extra outlets to split up the wattage.

With the LEDs you bought it looks like you could easily plug two of them and two Lowel pro lights (250w each, background and hair, e.g.) into the same circuit, thus saving on carrying extra extension cord.

The LEDs, and their small size, make them easier to gel than soft boxes, too.

I am trying to put together an ideal pick up and go kit. These lights look like they might be perfect.

(Now I need to find the $2500 for the Lectrosonics 401 receiver and SM transmitter.)

November 19th, 2007, 10:03 AM	#1
Kaspar Kallas Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Estonia Posts: 142	Solid State lighting for Documentaries, Weddings and Event videography Hello I am a part owner of an european company that has been mainly foucesed in film production/post-production. We have developed quite a few tools for inhouse use and would like to release some of them as comercial products. 1st one in line would be high-output Solid State Lights: The protype is: dimensions: roughy 6" in diameter (15cm), 10" deep (25cm) weigh: 6.6 us pounds (3KG) temp: 5600K illumination: it seems the most difficult to answer because it depends from way too many factors (light source, build of the unit, lens etc.) - I use them as about 1/2 of arri 575 HMI. But if anybody has ideas how to make some sensible test/masurements let me know. I, my self use them with rather narrow lenses(lens per led) 12deg to get strong spot - and when I need soften I use either diffuser gel or bounce the light. The lights can be mounted on manfrotto lightweight light tripods. On c-stands they can mounted as banks if more output is needed. I have done an interview in totally dark room just using 3 of these lights with SI2K mini and 12mm lens. The person was in frame from waist and there were no underexposed areas on the image (including background). Room was 4x6m so in US measurements 13x20foot. Again if interest I could make fully documented tests. The lights are very durable: you can seriousöy abuse the light and most damage you will accomplish is breake the front cover glass. The lights use 40V DC so we will provide AC-DC adapters as well DC-DC from 12V. Right now we try to determine if there is enough interest for such product. If so would price for a unit sub 1000 USD be viable and what would be the best features for such product. Thank You -Kaspar Kallas

November 28th, 2007, 03:11 PM	#2
Kaspar Kallas Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Estonia Posts: 142	Fluorescent Lights Hi I am bit confused about lumen per watt ratings of different technologies: There is 200W Lowel: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...t_Fixture.html that is rated "only" 50 lumens per watt. Is it because low wattage pulbs, 90w pulbs would yield a better ratio? I cannot find any information about kinoflo lumen per watt ration - anybody know this? I want know, can modern LED's be a match for fluorescent. Thank You -Kaspar

December 3rd, 2007, 05:37 PM	#3
Alex Lucas Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 50	Lumens per watt. 1700 lumens is equivalent to a 100w incandescent lightbulb. So that light is the equivalent of an incandescent 588W lightbulb. In other words, it's as strong as an omni light. Effectively, well, at over 600USD that's not a lot of light for the money. Not when you can get a cheap Lowel DP light or Omni light with the daylight conversion glass. That's half the money. Spend the rest of the $300 on a photoflex softbox with speedring for the DP light or omni, and you have something that can be used in almost any situation. LED, and other lights like that right now are just not good for the budget minded yet. When the flourescents get cheaper or the LEDs get brighter, then it's going to replace traditional bulbs, just not yet.

December 19th, 2007, 10:41 PM	#4
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	http://www.flolight.com/500LED.htm

December 20th, 2007, 11:57 AM	#5
Christopher Witz Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 591	has anyone had a chance to use the 500 led light yet?

December 27th, 2007, 04:02 AM	#7
Kaspar Kallas Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Estonia Posts: 142	Hi The 500LED seems interesting but only bit less than half the wattage, as we are using the brightest LED's possible right now it would mean also at least half the lumens. As for progress on our own product we should have a home-page and possibility to order first batch of protos in the 3rd week of january. Reason why I chose to build LED's for my work is extreme durability - and making a good doc on a go has meant broken bulbs for me more than I would like to count for. I started this thread to get some input what feature would be absolute minimum needed and also what could be premium features? So we could actually build a product that is good for more than just one narrow field. Thank You -Kaspar Kallas

December 27th, 2007, 04:40 AM	#8
Jaron Berman Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 439	Most people who have used them find the litepanels 1x1 to be an excellent light in every way except price. Even in its spot configuration, it's not particularly bright. The problem with the spot is that the beam itself is quite small, so to get coverage, it must be backed off significantly, therefore losing brightness. regardless, these things are used in every style of production. Very lightweight, and somewhat durable. The most commonly broken piece is the power connector. If you're coming up with a new LED light, look at the best of what's out there, and start figuring out what you'd like to improve upon. Personally, I still prefer fluorescent to LEDs - far brighter, true daylight and true tungsten. But that's just me - and LEDs can be more portable.

December 27th, 2007, 11:15 AM	#9
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	I've been using Lowel Caselight fluorescents for some time and like them a lot, especially for interviews. I was going to buy some fluorescents from Flolight but found the LEDs and ordered three of them. Supposedly they are slightly brighter than the 2-bulb fluorescent (with two 55 watt bulbs), have just a bit longer throw and are not quite as soft. I will have them in my hands in a couple of days and will see if all that's true. I like the solid 5600K of the LEDs but that can be a disadvantage if you want to mix them with tungsten lights. However, I like to shoot everything daylight in nearly all cases. The cameras I use seem to look better with daylight settings; so I've been using CTB on my tungsten lights when mixing with daylight fluorescents. The best value in fluorescents and also smaller HMIs is from Cool Lights, I think. I was set to order from them but the ones I wanted weren't in stock at the time. Then I found the LEDs. One nice thing about the LEDs is their smaller size and weight. These will be about half the size of a 2-bulb fluorescent and very light weight.

December 27th, 2007, 02:31 PM	#10
Bob Grant Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,570	For a very nice light for docos and weddings you can't get anything better than the Zylight Z90. It's a bit big and heavy for palmcorders and certainly not cheap. However it's built like a tank and will outlast several generations of cameras so total cost of ownership is low if you take a long term view.

January 6th, 2008, 11:55 AM	#11
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	I got my three sets of Flolight LED500 lights in a few days ago and did a shoot on Friday. Although smaller, thinner and overall more compact, as well as lighter than the equivalent 2-bulb fluorescent (such as the Lowel Caselight 2), they put out slightly more light. There is a little less falloff at the same distance, because they have a more focused beam. You don't get as wide a spread as the fluorescent, and if you put one in really close, like 5-6 feet, some light diffusion, like opal, is good. I did a side by side comparison with a Caselight 2, and at about 8 feet, the LED is close to a stop brighter; with the Caselight's highly reflective barn doors adjusted for amplification, the difference is about 1/4 stop. The LEDs have reflective barn doors, but they're the pebbled type and don't reflect as much as the polished kind. I guess you can say I'm now a convert from flos to LEDs. They're strictly 5600K, so if you want to mix them with tungsten, you'd have to CTB the tungsten or CTO the LEDs.

January 6th, 2008, 03:05 PM	#12
Jack Walker Trustee Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Burbank Posts: 1,811	These look very good. Are they sufficiently sturdy to put a couple of them in a hard side suitcase and check on an airplane? I am looking for something to use on interviews (as main lights and fill with windows) in Europe. Last trip I use Lowel lights. But I would something for interviews that pulls less current. Will the lights work with both 110 and 220v? Thanks!

January 6th, 2008, 05:51 PM	#13
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	They are native AC and come with power supplies. If you're interested call Flolights and ask about the European standard. I think they probably have the right power supplies you can get. They're very friendly out there and don't mind answering questions at all. I found their customer service to be great. When I was discussing things with one of the guys, he said they switched to the DC powered lights (previous models had been AC) because lots of their customers wanted to use them in Europe. They sell a lot to TV networks. If you put them in a suitcase with a little padding, they should travel fine. They feel more solid that fluorescents I've used. Since they're daylight, you can use them with the windows. That's what I do a lot on interviews--often keying with a window and filling with a light, or vice versa. Two of these should get you through most interviews. Your only problem would be stands. A couple of the small Lowel stands they include with their Caselights would probably fit in your suitcase, and since these are pretty light, those little stands would be sturdy enough.

January 6th, 2008, 05:53 PM	#14
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Oh...silly me...should have checked the web site: -100-240v 50/60hz AC adapter included That answers your question in the positive.

January 6th, 2008, 08:11 PM	#15
Jack Walker Trustee Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Burbank Posts: 1,811	Thanks! Yes, I checked the website and saw they are 110-240. I'll have to call and see how heavy the adapters are. Last trip I took four totas, two pros. a Photoflex soft box, with stands, reflectors, umbrellas, gel frames, etc. All fit nicely with other gear in the suitcase. I also took several of the Lowel clamps and mounted lights on whatever in place of stands (I think I took three stands.) It looks like the LEDs would not be like to break when jostled in shipping. The trouble with travelling with hotlights is not only finding the amps. You also have to take the extension cords to get to the extra outlets to split up the wattage. With the LEDs you bought it looks like you could easily plug two of them and two Lowel pro lights (250w each, background and hair, e.g.) into the same circuit, thus saving on carrying extra extension cord. The LEDs, and their small size, make them easier to gel than soft boxes, too. I am trying to put together an ideal pick up and go kit. These lights look like they might be perfect. (Now I need to find the $2500 for the Lectrosonics 401 receiver and SM transmitter.)