Holy Heat! Low Heat Lighting Solutions?

[Shawn Redford]

Originally Posted by Richard Andrewski

Most of my market is people that travel so I hear what you're saying. ... The other part is the lolipop holder and is cast aluminum. Right now its attached semi-permanently with screws and nuts. Thats the part I was mentioning could be changed to be removable by putting tapped holes into the backbone. ... However, that plastic is very durable so I don't see it breaking without some serious help. It's listed as 80 times stonger than glass ;-)

Okay, thanks for the terminology update. I was thinking of the lollipop holder in my above posts. I really like the idea of being able to remove the lollipop HOLDER using integral screws that match tapped holes in the back. I'm sure the plastic is strong, but it's also a matter of packing lights to fit in baggage or possibly a carry-on. Being able to remove the lollipop holder would just seem to make a lot of sense. Maybe your customers could even put two lights flush against each other to protect the barndoors (maybe with a bit of foam in-between) and this would help them minimize the surfaces that are exposed for baggage/shipping personnel. Given the abuse that UPS delivers, I'd prefer the unit shipped that way as well. I'm looking forward to seeing your product.

[Terry VerHaar]

Richard - When might you be taking orders or reservations for the various lights you are expecting in October? I have been holding off purchasing a kit until I could see what you came up with. The new products look they will fill the bill for me. I'd hate to miss out on the initial shipment. As far as I know, I am on your mailing list.

Thanks,
Terry.

[Richard Andrewski]

Well I had a lot of grand plans for a pre-sale but when I started looking at the website programming changes to do all the various things I really wanted to do it was going to be too complicated and take too long. Plus it makes too many obligations if we start taking money before the goods have arrived. If anyone is on our list (signing up on the site) then they'll be notified in advance.

[Richard Andrewski]

Here are pictures of the revised dimming version fixtures. Non-dimming will simply not have the dimming dial. The CL-255PMD and CL-455PMD. both of these were shot with the lolipop stem attached to a grip head, not the final stand adapter which adapts the lolipop stem to a 5/8" baby spud or a 1 1/8" junior female stand.

[Richard Andrewski]

I also commissioned a 6 bulb fixture which they did, but the picture didn't turn out so great so I'll post that another time, but they also made me a 12 bulb fixture and a 6 bulb T12 fixture too--anticipating that I might want that in the future. Pictures below. On the T12, they put the ballasts inside the unit so they aren't removable. I told them I believe the removable ballast in a separate unit would be far more popular in the USA so if we sell that model we will re-engineer a separate 6 tube 75w ballast to accomodate it. While these are both very light, they will need a more hefty and larger aluminum lolipop instead of the nylon ball one on the smaller units. So a bit of re-engineering on that before we can call it a solution.

[Peter Wittinghoff]

First thing first; Richard, two thumps up for answering on a open forum.
I too have been looking through your website (found it through YouTube if of any interrest(?)) and been wondering what's up with your lights and what's the difference compared to more established (= more expensive) competitors. Of course I've also been curious about what the difference is between traditional halo/tungsten and the type of cool fixtures you're offering? Besides heat.

In general, the innovation with cool lights (low energy) is rapidly moving forwards. LED's are expected to take a new jump by the end of this/beginning of next year. Already, Power LEDs are putting out tremendously more light with much less heat/energy loss than traditional LEDs (such as the one found on the "power on" on your computer). A similar development is happening with tubes and bulbs.

For the time being I'm using simple work lights with tubes and bulbs, all with low enegy fixtures and som + 6000 light coming out of them. Works for the moment, but I will soon upgrade and Cool Lights™ are something I'm really considering. Do you ship to Sweden Richard?

[Richard Andrewski]

Originally Posted by Peter Wittinghoff

First thing first; Richard, two thumps up for answering on a open forum.

That's just how I do things. We design out in the open and solicit opinions until I feel I have a good cross section of what people really think. I even float trial balloons sometimes to see if an idea is crazy or not. You have some that don't understand that process and can't really participate but many potential customers do get it and love to be a part of the process.

From the start, all ballast-oriented film and t.v. lighting has been overly expensive and this is because they're treated mostly as black boxes, the contents of which are a mystery to the average person. The manufacturers have done a great job on selling that there is a proprietary technology there that can't be found elsewhere. I've been doing all I can to: 1). demystify these black boxes for those that want to build their own and 2). offer the black boxes at the normal prices that they should be for those that have no interest in DIY.

By the way, most of these different types of suitable ballasts are available from many sources now--especially fluorescent which are far from proprietary. Advance, Universal, Fulham, Sylvania/Osram--all make fluorescent ballasts that rival anything Kino Flo puts out. Tons of Chinese competitors too that are making great ballasts.

The area of HMI ballasts has been a bit more murky but even that is opening up now with many competitors coming in to make this a far more mature and commodity-based technology also.

Originally Posted by Peter Wittinghoff

I too have been looking through your website (found it through YouTube if of any interrest(?)) and been wondering what's up with your lights and what's the difference compared to more established (= more expensive) competitors. Of course I've also been curious about what the difference is between traditional halo/tungsten and the type of cool fixtures you're offering? Besides heat.

The only way I can accomplish the two points I listed above is by maintaining a low overhead operation and that's what we do.

We now only offer fluorescent models but soon will have HMI and tungsten as well. The fluorescent models are only capable of soft light and can never be hard. HMI and tungsten are capable of hard light but can be diffused as necessary. We felt we needed both soft and hard light to have a complete offering. Since I'm mostly trying to do energy efficient alternatives, HMI was the natural choice for hard light. HMI is what I call a "relatively cool light." Its still an incredibly intense and hot bulb but the light it produces is cooler (heatwise) than tungsten light and takes less wattage to produce the light it produces similar to fluorescent. Just try the experiment of putting up a 2000w tungsten fresnel and a 575w HMI fresnel which are close to each other in lumen output. Then stand about 5 feet away from both in their respective lights. Which one is cooler?

As for the tungsten models we'll be offering soon--I never had a plan to offer tungsten before but when I got the idea of lowering the price of HMI also it was clear I would need to find what I call "commodity fixtures" to use as the basis for the lights. Buying the tungsten models in large quantity and having some of the modified at the factory for the specialized needs of HMI bulbs made the most sense to me so that's why we're offering both tungsten and HMI now because I can get the fixture quantities up higher if I offer both models. Since many still like to use tungsten fixtures its a win/win for us and them.

Originally Posted by Peter Wittinghoff

In general, the innovation with cool lights (low energy) is rapidly moving forwards. LED's are expected to take a new jump by the end of this/beginning of next year. Already, Power LEDs are putting out tremendously more light with much less heat/energy loss than traditional LEDs (such as the one found on the "power on" on your computer). A similar development is happening with tubes and bulbs.

LEDs are a ways off still. 30 lumens per watt is the norm and thats only 50% better than the best tungsten. 50 to 90 is more the norm for ballast oriented lighting like fluorescent or HMI. They are simply more efficient and will be for a while. We have a 30w single high power LED from Taiwan that I had great hopes for but its too expensive and only puts out about 1800 lumens of light. We'd have a super expensive pepper fresnel which would be a novelty that only a few would buy. There's another 100w LED available here in China but I believe the lumens per watt are only about 25 which is very poor. When LEDs finally get where I want them, we'll have an LED product. In fact I have several projects on my bench but I won't sell any of them until I get them to the price point I think makes the most sense. I have a very interesting panel for instance, but its waiting for a fixture case and some other trimmings before we can sell it. It's nothing but a working circuit board at this point. Its always that last 10% on a project that seems to take the longest.

Originally Posted by Peter Wittinghoff

For the time being I'm using simple work lights with tubes and bulbs, all with low enegy fixtures and som + 6000 light coming out of them. Works for the moment, but I will soon upgrade and Cool Lights™ are something I'm really considering. Do you ship to Sweden Richard?

I've shipped to Norway, as well as several other parts of Europe. Why not Sweden? Just be sure you're acquainted with the customs taxes and such in your country as you would be libel for all those.

[Peter Wittinghoff]

Great many thanx for your reply Richard. The overall picture you're giving is similar to the one I recive as a prospect/consumer.

My personal project I'm currently working on includes people in small rooms with akward lightning situation (gyms). I've tried to use some work lights flooding from the cealing and some softening on the side and back ("hair" allthough 50% of the persons have none :) ). Main problem here is lack of space and other people stumbling over cords etc. I'm trying to figure out if cool lights are the way to go forward or hmi is better space wise....

It's good news you're shipping to Sweden. Give me some time to make my mind up and I'll maybe send you a request. Either that or be your Scandinavian re-seller :) (hmm...come to think about it.....?!)

[Richard Andrewski]

I think if you only consider space, the HMI units will always win. They come in far more compact models than fluorescent units (which are inherently a broad source), have a longer throw, can be softened if you need (but as stated before, fluorescent can't be "hardened" no matter what you do for those times you need a hard light).

Of course the cost, even in our models, is still a bit higher than fluorescent so sometimes other considerations may come into play as to which you choose.

[Mark Sasahara]

Originally Posted by Peter Moretti

Kino Flo explained to me the other day the difference between the 4 bulb 2' "Fatboy" and the Diva Light 400. Essentially, the Diva is dimmable, but this dimming will affect color balance if taken too far. Alternatively/in addition to dimming, the Diva's can be switched from four to two bulbs. They said for on location video, the Diva is really the light to use.

The "Fatboy" has a special ballast designed to keep its color balance neutral, but this is defeated by the fact that you really can't lower the current to the bulbs on the Fatboy like you can on the 4' model. So the "only" way to change light output is by turning off individual bulbs.

All in all, they were very nice and extremely helpful.

One way to reduce the output of a Kino is to add diffusion. Open the doors and add a large piece, and you will soften the light as well as reduce the output. You can move the light back, or move it in for more light, but remember, the larger the source, the softer the light. You can turn off individual bulbs on the newer select Kino Ballasts. You can also add ND, to maintain the large source and keep color temp the same.

The Divas and luminaires that use the G11 base tubes have a brighter and punchier light. The standard T12 tubes are lower in contrast.

[Peter Moretti]

Thanks much Mark! BTW, do you have any experience using LED's? Just thought I'd ask ;).

[Mark Sasahara]

I've used the small Lite Panels, which are really great. I like the 1x1, which is one foot square. There are large configurations, up to 4x4 which is 16 1x1 panels making a 4x4 light.

There are a few companies that are making LED lights for filmmaking:

http://www.nila.tv/
http://www.led-z.com/index.html
http://www.elementlabs.com/products/kelvintile
http://www.elementlabs.com/products/kelvinbrick
http://www.zylight.com/
http://lumapanel.com/


There are probably more. I've left Lite Panel out, figuring everyone has already been there.

I like the smallness of the Lite Panel and that it can be battery, or A/C powered. It's a great onboard camera light too. I like the quality of light, although it is a bit different than tungsten, or HMI. My one complaint about the batteries for LitePanels, is that they loose charge overnight, so you've got to charge them up first thing, every day.

Not an LED, but really cool:
http://www.rosco.com/us/video/litepad.asp