Going DSLR for wedding videography

Ger Griffin · January 16th, 2011, 09:14 AM

I found an excellent post before on another forum explaining the best way to match cameras. I have matched my XHA1 close enough to use on a wide angle while recording good sound. Basically the software that comes with the canon 7d allows live viewing of the 7d on the computer screen as you adjust picture presets. Setting up my XHA1 to capture in premier and sizing down & rejigging the windows allowed me to display live, both cameras pointing at the same subject on the same monitor. This is the best way to match cameras.
What it leads to is a trusty reliable camera on the job with you covering everything. Very important IMO

John Wiley · January 17th, 2011, 06:49 AM

Jeff, I've had no problems judging exposure on either the LCD or viewfinder. I use the viewfinder more, becuase I often use it outside in bright light. On either display you can have a live histogram which can be a big help too. You can also see the EV meter (even when using manual lenses) which is great as it essentially tells you what the camcorder would do if it was in auto mode - so then you can feel all smug when you tell the camera that you know better.

The GH1 is very user friendly. From the moment I took it out of the box everything just made sense. With the 5dmkII I borrowed however, I had to stop every 30 seconds and ask the owner a question. "How do I put it in movie mode? How do I start recording? How do I change aperture?" I'm sure whatever camera you own becomes second nature pretty quickly but the GH1 seemed to immediaely make sense without having to read through the manual.

Having said that, the 5dmkII's reception footage was fairly breathtaking, espescially compared to my V1p. While I would love to be working with footage from a 5dmkII on every wedding shoot, I think the GH1/2 is a better middle ground between the DSLR's and camcorders, offering some of the big sensor benefits but without completely compromising usability and other features.

Jeff Harper · January 17th, 2011, 05:45 PM

John, thanks for your reply. I've been looking at Panasonic lenses and the offerings are limited. This is a drawback. They are all slow, save for one I've found, but it only works on a DMC-GH2K.

I'm wondering what a GH2K is vs the plain GH2. I would look at other lenses, but am I wrong to want full functionality? I want the auto focus and auto exposure features, which can't be had otherwise.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/484209-REG/Panasonic_L_X025_25mm_f_1_4_Leica_D.html This is the first lens I would buy, but I'm not sure if it would retain auto focus feature on GH2. If anyone has this lens let me know how it works for you!

Actually, I'm not sure the above lens even has auto focus, I think it does not. Fantastic lesns, but without autofocus what a waste of the GH2 autofocus/autoexposure features.

John Wiley · January 17th, 2011, 06:38 PM

Fast (native) lenses is the biggest problem with micro 4/3rds right now. You either have to choose between having autofocus, or getting fast manual lenses and throwing away some of the biggest advantages the GH1/GH2 have over the Canon's.

I think the 'K' on the end of GH2 denotes the region. I know all the Australian GH1's had the 'K' suffix, so it could mean it's the PAL version. I'm sure if a lens works on a GH2K it will work on any other GH2 body no matter what region it is from.

I seem to recall reading something about Panasonic making a m4/3rds version of the lens you listed. I could be wrong or thinking of a different lens, but it might be worth doing some research and waiting a little before buying that one, as a native m4/3rds lens would likely have better autofocus (hopefully).

Buba Kastorski · January 18th, 2011, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Wiley

Fast (native) lenses is the biggest problem with micro 4/3rds right now. You either have to choose between having autofocus, or getting fast manual lenses and throwing away some of the biggest advantages the GH1/GH2 have over the Canon's.

exactly, plus inability to find on the market fast IS zooms for M4/3 keeps me with the Canon

Jeff Harper · January 18th, 2011, 08:30 AM

Buba, glad I'm discovering this now, not later!

John, I'm looking at the 20mm f/1.7 which looks "ok". For the money it is nice. It is such an odd design, but that is apparently what a pancake lens looks like.

Canon lenses are my favorite, and a couple of Sigma's I like also. I feel as if I may still go forward, but I need to nail down at least some kind of game plan before I move forward!

Ger Griffin · January 18th, 2011, 10:37 AM

I just put the latest magic lantern onto my T2i. Man its good. Focus peaking works well on it and its still in the early development stage! These guys are geniuses (or is it geniuii?)

Jeff, its the T2i with the Magic lantern firmware hack installed on it that you should be comparing to the GH2.

Jeff Harper · January 18th, 2011, 12:52 PM

Ger, does the T2i have continuous auto focus? Is the LCD usable for movie mode, i.e., does it have live view for video?

Buba, T2i doesn't have continous autofocus, or even auto focus in movie mode...is this correct?

Edit: I just saw that it does have live view in movie mode, but no flip out screen like GH2. It T2i doesn't appear to have auto focus in movie mode, and of course no continuous AF. That is too bad, as the T2i has a larger chip, less moire, and is 18mp for stills. Really nice camera.

Kevin Shaw · January 18th, 2011, 04:54 PM

Regarding synchronized audio, that's not necessarily harder on a DSLR than on a proper video camera, and there's something to be said for having separate audio sources at weddings regardless. But granted that having all the features traditional video cameras offer is a big plus, and shooting live events with a DSLR can be a hassle.

Jeff Harper · January 18th, 2011, 06:31 PM

Ger, I've been looking at the T2i per your post, it seems very good. Manually focusing just seems too much for me. I can handle starting out with auto and them moving to manual as needed, but my with my poor eyesight I have issues focusing on things quickly with my eyes, etc.

It seems if the T2i and GH2 were taken and the best features of each were to be combined into one camera (a Canon so we'd have lenses to choose from) it would be sweet. Unfortunately that's not happening.

I'm still shopping lenses. The Panasonic website is not working for me, I cannot access all of the lenses to see what is available, frustrating.

John Wiley · January 18th, 2011, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Harper

That is too bad, as the T2i has a larger chip, less moire, and is 18mp for stills. Really nice camera.

Actually the T2i has more moire. They both have alisaing, but it appears much more often in real-life scenarios with the T2i than the GH1/2. With the GH1 you don't get the horrible chroma moire which shows up as purple or green patches which are very obvious. On the GH1 I have to look for the aliasing and normally only find it on things like power lines, diagonals, etc - but that is the same with all HD cameras I've used.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Shaw

Regarding synchronized audio, that's not necessarily harder on a DSLR than on a proper video camera, and there's something to be said for having separate audio sources at weddings regardless. But granted that having all the features traditional video cameras offer is a big plus, and shooting live events with a DSLR can be a hassle.

Audio can be done, whether into the camera or a seperate recorder, but it's a hassle and an expense. It's not just the fact that you don't have XLR inputs or manual gain on the camera - it's that you need to get a big rig to mount all your audio gear on, and that an onboard shutgun is often useless because it picks up lens/camera noise (unlike video cameras which are designed to be as silent as possible), and that the more complex rig is slower to setup, etc etc.

It's funny because now that DSLR's have come along, so many people are claiming it doesn't matter that the cameras don't have good audio because everything should be shot with dual system anyway, and people should never use the onboard XLR's on a Pro camcorder except for sync. Those people are ignoring the fact that after 30+ years of video professionals trying and testing systems and equipment, they've come to the conclusion that for most things, onboard XLR is not just adequete, it's ideal - as well as faster, easier, cheaper and more reliable (in the sense that if you are recording video you are also recording the sound you're monitoring through the headphones/meters).

Jeff Harper · January 18th, 2011, 07:36 PM

Actually, I only saw one comparison video of the T2i and the GH2, and the moire was pretty bad with the GH2. but non existent on the T2i footage...as you say it's present in all of them to one degree or another.

John Wiley · January 18th, 2011, 09:07 PM

What was the comparison video of?

As I said, they do both exhibit it espescially if you are shooting test chart. So will my V1p or your FX1000's or any other camera to varying degrees. In real life scenarios, though, the T2i is far worse.

Ger Griffin · January 19th, 2011, 06:52 AM

It must be said though that its a lot worse in 720 50p mode than 1080 25/24/30p

Jeff Harper · January 19th, 2011, 08:41 AM

After spending days researching the cameras, I might wait for the rumoured Canon mirroless EIS 60. If the rumours are true, and some details have been leaked, it will be quite a camera, and will supposedly have continuous auto focus. They are also reportedly developing lenses for it. They are also reportedly designing an EIS to EOS lens adapter.

The issue as I see it: By the time I'll be ready for a second camera, the Canon will be available.

The GH2 is a great camera, but I cannot get past the lack of available fast lenses. Panasonic is enjoying early success right now, and has been extremely innovative. Unfortunately for them, Canon will not continue to lose market share without a fight.

Canon will respond to the GH2 with a vengeance. The GH2 is selling so fast it cannot be kept in stock anywhere. This cannot have gone unnoticed by Canon.

I just hate the idea of waiting months, as my current cameras are dropping in value every day.

January 17th, 2011, 05:45 PM	#48
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	John, thanks for your reply. I've been looking at Panasonic lenses and the offerings are limited. This is a drawback. They are all slow, save for one I've found, but it only works on a DMC-GH2K. I'm wondering what a GH2K is vs the plain GH2. I would look at other lenses, but am I wrong to want full functionality? I want the auto focus and auto exposure features, which can't be had otherwise. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/484209-REG/Panasonic_L_X025_25mm_f_1_4_Leica_D.html This is the first lens I would buy, but I'm not sure if it would retain auto focus feature on GH2. If anyone has this lens let me know how it works for you! Actually, I'm not sure the above lens even has auto focus, I think it does not. Fantastic lesns, but without autofocus what a waste of the GH2 autofocus/autoexposure features. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described." Last edited by Jeff Harper; January 17th, 2011 at 06:26 PM.

January 18th, 2011, 08:30 AM	#51
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Buba, glad I'm discovering this now, not later! John, I'm looking at the 20mm f/1.7 which looks "ok". For the money it is nice. It is such an odd design, but that is apparently what a pancake lens looks like. Canon lenses are my favorite, and a couple of Sigma's I like also. I feel as if I may still go forward, but I need to nail down at least some kind of game plan before I move forward! __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

January 18th, 2011, 12:52 PM	#53
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Ger, does the T2i have continuous auto focus? Is the LCD usable for movie mode, i.e., does it have live view for video? Buba, T2i doesn't have continous autofocus, or even auto focus in movie mode...is this correct? Edit: I just saw that it does have live view in movie mode, but no flip out screen like GH2. It T2i doesn't appear to have auto focus in movie mode, and of course no continuous AF. That is too bad, as the T2i has a larger chip, less moire, and is 18mp for stills. Really nice camera. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described." Last edited by Jeff Harper; January 18th, 2011 at 06:24 PM.

January 18th, 2011, 06:31 PM	#55
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Ger, I've been looking at the T2i per your post, it seems very good. Manually focusing just seems too much for me. I can handle starting out with auto and them moving to manual as needed, but my with my poor eyesight I have issues focusing on things quickly with my eyes, etc. It seems if the T2i and GH2 were taken and the best features of each were to be combined into one camera (a Canon so we'd have lenses to choose from) it would be sweet. Unfortunately that's not happening. I'm still shopping lenses. The Panasonic website is not working for me, I cannot access all of the lenses to see what is available, frustrating. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

January 18th, 2011, 07:36 PM	#57
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Actually, I only saw one comparison video of the T2i and the GH2, and the moire was pretty bad with the GH2. but non existent on the T2i footage...as you say it's present in all of them to one degree or another. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described." Last edited by Jeff Harper; January 18th, 2011 at 10:39 PM.

January 16th, 2011, 09:14 AM	#46
Ger Griffin Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ireland Posts: 579	I found an excellent post before on another forum explaining the best way to match cameras. I have matched my XHA1 close enough to use on a wide angle while recording good sound. Basically the software that comes with the canon 7d allows live viewing of the 7d on the computer screen as you adjust picture presets. Setting up my XHA1 to capture in premier and sizing down & rejigging the windows allowed me to display live, both cameras pointing at the same subject on the same monitor. This is the best way to match cameras. What it leads to is a trusty reliable camera on the job with you covering everything. Very important IMO

January 17th, 2011, 06:49 AM	#47
John Wiley Trustee Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Byron Bay, Australia Posts: 1,155	Jeff, I've had no problems judging exposure on either the LCD or viewfinder. I use the viewfinder more, becuase I often use it outside in bright light. On either display you can have a live histogram which can be a big help too. You can also see the EV meter (even when using manual lenses) which is great as it essentially tells you what the camcorder would do if it was in auto mode - so then you can feel all smug when you tell the camera that you know better. The GH1 is very user friendly. From the moment I took it out of the box everything just made sense. With the 5dmkII I borrowed however, I had to stop every 30 seconds and ask the owner a question. "How do I put it in movie mode? How do I start recording? How do I change aperture?" I'm sure whatever camera you own becomes second nature pretty quickly but the GH1 seemed to immediaely make sense without having to read through the manual. Having said that, the 5dmkII's reception footage was fairly breathtaking, espescially compared to my V1p. While I would love to be working with footage from a 5dmkII on every wedding shoot, I think the GH1/2 is a better middle ground between the DSLR's and camcorders, offering some of the big sensor benefits but without completely compromising usability and other features.

January 17th, 2011, 06:38 PM	#49
John Wiley Trustee Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Byron Bay, Australia Posts: 1,155	Fast (native) lenses is the biggest problem with micro 4/3rds right now. You either have to choose between having autofocus, or getting fast manual lenses and throwing away some of the biggest advantages the GH1/GH2 have over the Canon's. I think the 'K' on the end of GH2 denotes the region. I know all the Australian GH1's had the 'K' suffix, so it could mean it's the PAL version. I'm sure if a lens works on a GH2K it will work on any other GH2 body no matter what region it is from. I seem to recall reading something about Panasonic making a m4/3rds version of the lens you listed. I could be wrong or thinking of a different lens, but it might be worth doing some research and waiting a little before buying that one, as a native m4/3rds lens would likely have better autofocus (hopefully).

January 18th, 2011, 10:37 AM	#52
Ger Griffin Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ireland Posts: 579	I just put the latest magic lantern onto my T2i. Man its good. Focus peaking works well on it and its still in the early development stage! These guys are geniuses (or is it geniuii?) Jeff, its the T2i with the Magic lantern firmware hack installed on it that you should be comparing to the GH2.

January 18th, 2011, 04:54 PM	#54
Kevin Shaw Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,488	Regarding synchronized audio, that's not necessarily harder on a DSLR than on a proper video camera, and there's something to be said for having separate audio sources at weddings regardless. But granted that having all the features traditional video cameras offer is a big plus, and shooting live events with a DSLR can be a hassle.

January 18th, 2011, 09:07 PM	#58
John Wiley Trustee Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Byron Bay, Australia Posts: 1,155	What was the comparison video of? As I said, they do both exhibit it espescially if you are shooting test chart. So will my V1p or your FX1000's or any other camera to varying degrees. In real life scenarios, though, the T2i is far worse.

January 19th, 2011, 06:52 AM	#59
Ger Griffin Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ireland Posts: 579	It must be said though that its a lot worse in 720 50p mode than 1080 25/24/30p

January 19th, 2011, 08:41 AM	#60
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	After spending days researching the cameras, I might wait for the rumoured Canon mirroless EIS 60. If the rumours are true, and some details have been leaked, it will be quite a camera, and will supposedly have continuous auto focus. They are also reportedly developing lenses for it. They are also reportedly designing an EIS to EOS lens adapter. The issue as I see it: By the time I'll be ready for a second camera, the Canon will be available. The GH2 is a great camera, but I cannot get past the lack of available fast lenses. Panasonic is enjoying early success right now, and has been extremely innovative. Unfortunately for them, Canon will not continue to lose market share without a fight. Canon will respond to the GH2 with a vengeance. The GH2 is selling so fast it cannot be kept in stock anywhere. This cannot have gone unnoticed by Canon. I just hate the idea of waiting months, as my current cameras are dropping in value every day. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."