Canon EOS Rebel T1i D-SLR with HD

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Robert Sanders

We've been DEMANDING changes to firmware and DEMANDING that design changes in future products acquiesce to our needs.

It's unfortunate that the filmmaker crowd doesn't have the pull with Canon that the astronomer crowd does:

Canon EOS 20Da for the rest of us: Digital Photography Review

You'd think that if they'd cater to the astrophotography market, they'd be willing to bend a little for filmmakers? Just sayin'.

[Dylan Couper]

Originally Posted by Kurth Bousman

Well Dylan , visit prolost or dvx and see what they're saying .

LOL, no... why would i care what people on those sites think?

This isn't a pro filmmaking camera for cinematography, its a consumer still camera with a movie mode. To expect or demand manual controls or professional features from a camera at this level is unrealistic.

[Jon Fairhurst]

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

You'd think that if they'd cater to the astrophotography market, they'd be willing to bend a little for filmmakers? Just sayin'.

Then again, Canon doesn't have a pro astronomy division to protect. ;)

[Thomas Richter]

Originally Posted by Dylan Couper

LOL, no... why would i care what people on those sites think?

This isn't a pro filmmaking camera for cinematography, its a consumer still camera with a movie mode. To expect or demand manual controls or professional features from a camera at this level is unrealistic.

What frustrates me (and I think most others arguing that way) is that on the face of it some basic & useful extras seem entirely possible and voluntarily left out. Why not just 4 frames/sec more and even PAL land would be happy. Why not have exposure and shutter being locked to a setting if desired (costs nothing, because the setting is there it just gets overridden). Seems so little to ask for.

It looks like a deliberate choice to cripple the functionality.

[Paulo Teixeira]

Originally Posted by Robert Sanders

I'm a huge Canon fan. Have been for a while now. But I find myself looking at the EX3, the HPX300, and the Scarlet a lot lately. The era of the XL is clearly over.

For all we know, Canon may show something at NAB or at least within the next few months.

[Robert Sanders]

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

Then again, Canon doesn't have a pro astronomy division to protect. ;)

Good point.

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

It's unfortunate that the filmmaker crowd doesn't have the pull with Canon that the astronomer crowd does:

Canon EOS 20Da for the rest of us: Digital Photography Review

You'd think that if they'd cater to the astrophotography market, they'd be willing to bend a little for filmmakers? Just sayin'.

I still pray for a true hybrid camera someday. A 5D front end with an H1 back end.

But today's Rebel XTi announcement coupled with tone deafness re: the 5D tells me that I'm praying for something that will never materialize.

I'm a huge Canon fan. Have been for a while now. But I find myself looking at the EX3, the HPX300, and the Scarlet a lot lately. The era of the XL is clearly over.

Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira

For all we know, Canon may show something at NAB or at least within the next few months.

Fingers crossed.

[Kurth Bousman]

Seems like it's a copout saying that this camera is a consumer model so therefore it can't really be expected to have certain features that most photographers take for granted . The first dslr I bought was the original rebel and it's more than 50x paid for itself because it did what was expected from a camera - took photos with total control . The 1080/20p fiasco is a conundrum only god can answer but the lack of manual control for video smells of protectionism. Saying it's a consumer model and shouldn't be expected to be able to be controlled plays the same way both directions . Why can you then have control for still photography if it's only a glorified p&s ?

[Barlow Elton]

What I dislike is Canon's marketing of the 5D2 video feature giving "professional DOF control" and the like.

On one hand they want to entice video professionals with the amazing tonality of the core image and the look of full-frame DOF, but they pull the rug out by not offering manual control of the basics.

I love the 5D2 despite the obvious knee-capping it has in video mode...but this 20fps thing with the new Rebel is simply absurd.

Is it just me or is this new HD video thing on DSLR's owing to a basic truth about these products--

People have been quite happy with their DSLR's and resolution isn't as sexy as it used to be.

Voila!! HD video...but not pro.

[Alberto Blades]

for me It is just another Canon Marketing decision limiting the potentials, for the same price we should have 24p and manual controls. Its just a firmware update. Possible they fear it will hurt video camera sales.

really would like to know how many sales they are loosing due to the lack of 24p or 25p and manual controls.

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Barlow Elton

HD video...but not pro.

But Barlow, it's their entry-level, price-leading D-SLR. Is it a reasonable expectation that it should have pro-level HD video? Even on the 5D Mk. II... the video mode on it is a photojournalist's add-on. I don't think they ever intended it to be anything more than that. Some folks are clearly succeeding in using it in professional ways, and I salute 'em for the incredible work I've seen, but I don't think the camera was *made* for that.

Originally Posted by Kurth Bousman

The first dslr I bought was the original rebel and it's more than 50x paid for itself because it did what was expected from a camera - took photos with total control .

So does this one. The Rebel T1i takes photos with total control.

The 1080/20p fiasco is a conundrum only god can answer...

I don't get it -- have you actually downloaded and looked at the 1080 clips from Rob Galbraith's site? I don't see how anyone can call it a "fiasco." Sure, it's not what you want... but it's not a fiasco, far from it. I really don't understand the hand-wringing over this. What Canon have done with the T1i is to provide most of the specs and feature set of the 50D, adding a video mode that meets or exceeds their closest competitor, the Nikon D90, at a price well below $1000. No, it doesn't have pro-level video features, but why would you expect that on an entry-level D-SLR sitting at the bottom of a product line spanning five tiers?

[Stephen van Vuuren]

The 20 fps 1080p reminds me of the megapixel wars and I believe will be not used much by consumers or pros. I've looked at all the 1080p clips and on the size screen and viewing distance that 1080p would even make sense, especially with no shutter speed control, the artifacts are just too much.

For consumers shooting handheld soccer games, birthday parties etc, I think they will quickly figure out 720/30p is a much better choice for big screen viewing. And obviously, pros can't use 20fps except as an effect. The lack of effective autofocus in video mode makes it a poor home video cam replacement for consumers and the lack, including the apparent loss of 5D's exposure lock in video, means it's poor choice for pros.

I think they just wanted bragging rights over Nikon - but for either technical (Digic 4 is not fast enough) or protecting video camera market (can you say HV40), 24fps was killed. I will be surprised if 1080p 20fps ends up widely used. On small screens, 15 - 20 fps is okay for throwaway footage, but please don't show me you 20 fps stuff on your 65 incher.

The GH1 is not perfect and we need more footage to judge it, but even with all the existing flaws, a higher price etc. it seems like a totally different and superior class for DSLR video.

Nikon's response will be interesting to see if they are in Canon's world or will step it up.

[Jon Fairhurst]

I told my son about the 20 fps thing.

His first response... "That's back to silent movies."

His second response... "Maybe we'll rent one for fight scenes."

It's a 17% undercrank! :)

And the 5D MkII is a 25% overcrank. Maybe some day they'll give us a camera with normal speed motion....

[Jack Tran]

Originally Posted by Nathan Troutman

But I'm waiting to see what happens with the firmware update on the 5DMKII, what Nikon has coming, when Sony decides to jump in and ultimately who is going to be the one to bite the bullet and put all of this stuff inside a camcorder form-factor and sell it to the videography/indie film-side.

im seriously waiting for sony, those genius that came up with the EX1/EX3 will surely have something just as awesome for their DSLR.
I just hope i dont have to wait too long......

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

It's a 17% undercrank! :)

Heh. Smiley noted, but there's been some definite confusion about 20fps. Somebody here had made a "Keystone Cops" reference early in the thread, which I took out of public view due to how misleading it was (and to save that poster some embarrassment). There's a misconception that 20fps somehow means undercrank (for those who don't know, the term refers to a method of creating images that move faster than real time). The mistake here lies in the mistaken conclusion that since it was shot at 20fps, it'll be played back at 24fps (or 30fps, or whatever) and yield sped-up, jerky video. But that's not the way it works... it's played back at the *same* speed in which it was shot. One look at the sample clips on Rob Galbraith's site clearly shows that there's nothing about them that looks remotely like "Keystone Cops." I think a lot of dismissive comments are being made without actually having reviewed any of the 20fps video. It's *not* an undercrank because the playback speed is the same as the acquisition speed... you can't have an undercrank or an overcrank unless there's a difference between the recording and playback speeds. That doesn't apply here, though.

I don't think there's any viable potential for using video from the T1i in a professional situation. I think video from it under any circumstance will be hopeless without a tripod. I think it lacks far too many features to be taken seriously by filmmakers or videographers. But the sample clips seen so far do indeed bear out that there's nothing "jerky" about them, nothing that can honestly be labeled a "fiasco." To my eye it'll be perfectly adequate for whom it's intended: those who are in the market for an entry-level D-SLR well under $1000.

It's a 50D in a plastic Rebel body, and it has an HD video mode that competes with the Nikon D90. That's pretty much all it's meant to be. There's four other levels of D-SLR that are higher up than it is. The video mode is an interesting add-on, but it's no substitute for a camcorder, and I don't think it's reasonable to have expected it to be very much more than what it is.

[Dylan Couper]

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

It's a 50D in a plastic Rebel body, and it has an HD video mode that competes with the Nikon D90. That's pretty much all it's meant to be. There's four other levels of D-SLR that are higher up than it is. The video mode is an interesting add-on, but it's no substitute for a camcorder, and I don't think it's reasonable to have expected it to be very much more than what it is.

Maybe people will get the point better if we turn it into a car analogy...

Can you believe that Ford didn't put a 600hp twin turbo V8 in the new Focus? Those idiots don't know what they are doing... Once again their commuter car division didn't communicate with the needs of their race division... They've completely missed the market and blown the fantastic opportunity to create a F1 ready Focus!