Canon EOS Rebel T1i D-SLR with HD

Dave Blackhurst · March 25th, 2009, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

No D-SLR, Canon or otherwise, has ever had an articulating LCD.

The lack of one on the Rebel T1i is not a "mistake" but a fully expected continuation of the established D-SLR design.

Meanwhile: Canon EOS 500D - Sample Images & Movies

Sony A300 & A350 both have an articulating LCD... now if Sony just put an EXMOR "R" and video capability in, we'd have us a horserace!

Jon Fairhurst · March 25th, 2009, 12:45 AM

The 5D MkII gives us 1080p30. The Rebel T1i gives us 1080p20. I guess Europe needs to wait for the intermediate model to get 25 fps. (Would that be the T2.5Di Mk 1.5?) ;)

Wacharapong Chiowanich · March 25th, 2009, 02:21 AM

Chris was right when he said the 1080/20p mode is not made for people like us but I'm sure when those people who are not like us get to see their HD videos shot with this new camera, they would at least be wondering why all the hypes with this new technology called high definition videography.

In short, what kind of people would enjoy watching movies at 20 fps? Canon will know about this soon enogh.

Wacharapong

Steve Mullen · March 25th, 2009, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira

I guess Panasonic will need to postpone the party since it’ll take away some of the momentum the G1 was starting to get. Competition is good and 20p may be awkward but at least it may cause Panasonic to price the GH1 a little bit better then they planned.

I'd say the reverse -- it could give Pana a $1000 floor which allows them to go much higher given the GH1 offers 1080p24, 720p30, 720p60, plus a stereo mic jack, and an articulated LCD.

Of course, as Chris says "we" ain't the type who will buy the vast majority of DSLRs. The current Rebel is at Costco. The majority of Rebel buyers are looking for a cheap "real" DSLR. This is a sweet upgrade for these customers.

I doubt the GH1 is aimed at Costco and Ritz customers. So a new Rebel is most likely to have no effect on GH1 pricing.

PS: the Canon LiveView offers a simulation of dialed in EXPOSURE which I assume is ISO, Shutter-speed, and Aperture. If this can be enabled when shooting video, there is exposure control. Plus there is AF/AE lock. So were Costco to offer this at $750 it might be an OK camera -- a step above the SX1 and Sony.

Does the Rebel have a Power zoom?

Xavier Plagaro · March 25th, 2009, 03:05 AM

I can't understand what Canon is doing with the video posibilities in the digital SLR cameras... They could win everybody else, but they keep crippling the cameras and totally ignoring the PAL/SECAM market.

Where are the european brand when we need them?? Philips?? AEG?? Siemens?? Telefunken?? Thomson?? Mullard???? ;-DD

Look how many pal/secam countries are in the world:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...NTSC-SECAM.svg

Chris Hurd · March 25th, 2009, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

Does the Rebel have a Power zoom?

Nope -- the Rebel uses only EF or EF-S lenses, and none of them have a motorized zoom.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wacharapong Chiowanich

when those people... get to see their HD videos shot with this new camera, they would at least be wondering why all the hype...

I don't think that's a fair statement to make until we get a chance to look at some sample "1080p20" clips. The ones I've seen so far (at Gizmodo and Canon Inc.) are 720p30 and they look fine to me motion-wise. In the past I've had "480p15" video from a PowerShot and have been pleased just to have that video as opposed to not having any video at all.

I'm not saying 20fps is acceptable for us under any circumstance -- it isn't -- I'm proposing that the majority of folks out there who buy this thing will be happy to have 1080 video at any frame rate. For a significant percentage of them, this will be their first way to record 1080 video. A big chunk of the Rebel's market probably does not own an HD camcorder and has no plans to buy one.

Meanwhile, check out http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/T1I/T1IA.HTM

Now y'all know why I was so quick to put up a Panasonic GH1 forum: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/panasonic-lumix-gh1/

Dylan Couper · March 25th, 2009, 08:13 AM

I wonder if the 1080-20fps mode is because 240-30fps would be too much of a beast to edit on the average users' PC?

That was the first thing I thought when I read the announcement "how's John Public going to cut this footage?" 720p will be less hardware intensive at least.

Anyway, somewhere.... the consumer camcorder market is crying softly in a corner with a bottle of pills in one hand and a razor in the other.

Chris Hurd · March 25th, 2009, 09:49 AM

More video clips, hands-on evaluation, etc. from Rob Galbraith... Rob Galbraith DPI: HD video capture, 15MP sensor in Canon EOS Rebel T1i

Kurth Bousman · March 25th, 2009, 10:05 AM

chris said >>>No D-SLR, Canon or otherwise, has ever had an articulating LCD.<<<

excuse me but not correct so I stand by my "mistake" claim - actually I'll amplify and say it was stupid of canon to not help lead the market but posture as usual as a follower only giving what they can get away with w/o loosing their "market share" . The articulating lcd was fundamental for me to buy another canon so they probably won't get my money even though I own alot of c glass and would have preferred buying another canon camera . It's looking more like the gh1 is the camera to have in this class . We won't even talk about the lame 20p in 1080 mode . And you can't rationalize this as just another consumer compromise . All people buying this camera to use it in 1080 mode will obviously see its' faults at 20fps .Even consumers like smooth video ! And how more has canon crippled the cameras' exposure ?

dslrs' with articulating lcds' - and I'm willing to bet hard money we'll see an articulating lcd from nikon this year , and then , lagging behind as usual , canon will reluctantly add the art.lcd . And don't forget sonys' replacements for the a300 and 350 which will probably have video as well.

sony a300 , a350

olympus e-30 , e-620 , e-3 , e-300

Chris Hurd · March 25th, 2009, 10:27 AM

Okay, strike that "or otherwise" claim... I'll settle for saying that no Canon or Nikon D-SLR has ever had an articulating LCD. That the Rebel T1i is no different in this regard is not a "mistake," it's an expectation.

Has anyone actually downloaded and looked at Rob Galbriath's 42nd St. 1080 clip? It's smooth enough for consumers, in my opinion. I don't think anyone here will ever consider it for professional applications, but I seriously doubt any consumer / soccer mom / first-time D-SLR buyer is going to complain about this video "not being smooth enough" for the casual home - vacation type of use for which this camera is obviously intended.

Kurth Bousman · March 25th, 2009, 10:51 AM

The point is why ? Why didn't they just make it 24p ? I don't buy a "horsepower" reason . The camera has digic4 . It's another Canon Marketing decision which limits the potentials . And further I predict that the coming 5dmkll firmware upgrade will be as likely as the second coming ! Not going to happen . Why ? Canons' marketing mentality . This camera(500d) is not for "soccer moms" . The Rebel has never been for them , it's for photographers who are budget conscious . Soccer moms buy p&s' . And budget conscious photographers still want real features not marketing ploys.

Harrison Murchison · March 25th, 2009, 11:16 AM

I really don't care about 1080 video if the camera is only $800.

Frankly %90 of consumers don't have a HDTV that can resolve the minute
differences between 720 and 1080 anyways.

I have a decent Sharp 32 and it's just too small to discern much difference.

Now the newest generation of HDTV coming out and raising the bar. I just saw
the new Samsung LED Luxia line and it's jaw dropping good and it's $3800 for
a 55".

in the end it's all just a bunch of numbers. What really matters is what your analog
eyes pull in.

Evan Donn · March 25th, 2009, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

PS: the Canon LiveView offers a simulation of dialed in EXPOSURE which I assume is ISO, Shutter-speed, and Aperture. If this can be enabled when shooting video, there is exposure control. Plus there is AF/AE lock.

well, on the 5DmkII in this mode there is technically 'exposure control' - meaning you can dial in a visual exposure level in exposure simulation mode and then lock it. The camera doesn't respect your actual settings though once you start recording - it adjusts the various settings using it's own algorithm in order to achieve the exposure look you set. The problem with this is it still may select inappropriate or inconsistent shutter & aperture settings even though the exposure looks right.

Nathan Troutman · March 25th, 2009, 11:42 AM

This is just the beginning of something that is probably much bigger than what the Sony VX-1000 created. This new Rebel may not be perfect, but the price is pretty outstanding. A couple years ago in the videography world 720P was the big thing because 1080 was only 60i. 24P worshipers will hail the GH1 (and Panasonic fan boys of the DVX/HVX line). But I'm waiting to see what happens with the firmware update on the 5DMKII, what Nikon has coming, when Sony decides to jump in and ultimately who is going to be the one to bite the bullet and put all of this stuff inside a camcorder form-factor and sell it to the videography/indie film-side.

Video innovation has been far too stagnant over the last five years - with ever so incremental innovations and very careful protection of product lines.

I hail Canon's photo division for blowing the whole thing up and I'm sure Canon's video division is really really pissed about it.

The perfect product has not yet emerged, but it's nice to have a lot of options. It's only going to get better.

Dylan Couper · March 25th, 2009, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurth Bousman

Why ? Canons' marketing mentality . This camera(500d) is not for "soccer moms" . The Rebel has never been for them , it's for photographers who are budget conscious . Soccer moms buy p&s' . And budget conscious photographers still want real features not marketing ploys.

I'm afraid you are wrong, and I have proof... Canon actually has a magazine advertising campaign for the Rebel series of people shooting their kids playing soccer. This is EXACTLY the market for the Rebel. People who want a better camera and can afford it, but don't want "pro" features.

Canon's budget conscious line is the 10-20-30-40-50d series.

March 25th, 2009, 12:45 AM	#17
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	The 5D MkII gives us 1080p30. The Rebel T1i gives us 1080p20. I guess Europe needs to wait for the intermediate model to get 25 fps. (Would that be the T2.5Di Mk 1.5?) ;) __________________ Jon Fairhurst

March 25th, 2009, 08:13 AM	#22
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	I wonder if the 1080-20fps mode is because 240-30fps would be too much of a beast to edit on the average users' PC? That was the first thing I thought when I read the announcement "how's John Public going to cut this footage?" 720p will be less hardware intensive at least. Anyway, somewhere.... the consumer camcorder market is crying softly in a corner with a bottle of pills in one hand and a razor in the other. __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

March 25th, 2009, 09:49 AM	#23
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	More video clips, hands-on evaluation, etc. from Rob Galbraith... Rob Galbraith DPI: HD video capture, 15MP sensor in Canon EOS Rebel T1i __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

March 25th, 2009, 10:27 AM	#25
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Okay, strike that "or otherwise" claim... I'll settle for saying that no Canon or Nikon D-SLR has ever had an articulating LCD. That the Rebel T1i is no different in this regard is not a "mistake," it's an expectation. Has anyone actually downloaded and looked at Rob Galbriath's 42nd St. 1080 clip? It's smooth enough for consumers, in my opinion. I don't think anyone here will ever consider it for professional applications, but I seriously doubt any consumer / soccer mom / first-time D-SLR buyer is going to complain about this video "not being smooth enough" for the casual home - vacation type of use for which this camera is obviously intended. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

March 25th, 2009, 11:16 AM	#27
Harrison Murchison Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 243	Looks like a winner to me I really don't care about 1080 video if the camera is only $800. Frankly %90 of consumers don't have a HDTV that can resolve the minute differences between 720 and 1080 anyways. I have a decent Sharp 32 and it's just too small to discern much difference. Now the newest generation of HDTV coming out and raising the bar. I just saw the new Samsung LED Luxia line and it's jaw dropping good and it's $3800 for a 55". in the end it's all just a bunch of numbers. What really matters is what your analog eyes pull in.

March 25th, 2009, 02:21 AM	#18
Wacharapong Chiowanich Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Bangkok, Thailand Posts: 400	Chris was right when he said the 1080/20p mode is not made for people like us but I'm sure when those people who are not like us get to see their HD videos shot with this new camera, they would at least be wondering why all the hypes with this new technology called high definition videography. In short, what kind of people would enjoy watching movies at 20 fps? Canon will know about this soon enogh. Wacharapong

March 25th, 2009, 03:05 AM	#20
Xavier Plagaro Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Rome, Italy Posts: 90	I can't understand what Canon is doing with the video posibilities in the digital SLR cameras... They could win everybody else, but they keep crippling the cameras and totally ignoring the PAL/SECAM market. Where are the european brand when we need them?? Philips?? AEG?? Siemens?? Telefunken?? Thomson?? Mullard???? ;-DD Look how many pal/secam countries are in the world: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...NTSC-SECAM.svg

March 25th, 2009, 10:05 AM	#24
Kurth Bousman Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: san miguel allende , gto , mexico Posts: 644	chris said >>>No D-SLR, Canon or otherwise, has ever had an articulating LCD.<<< excuse me but not correct so I stand by my "mistake" claim - actually I'll amplify and say it was stupid of canon to not help lead the market but posture as usual as a follower only giving what they can get away with w/o loosing their "market share" . The articulating lcd was fundamental for me to buy another canon so they probably won't get my money even though I own alot of c glass and would have preferred buying another canon camera . It's looking more like the gh1 is the camera to have in this class . We won't even talk about the lame 20p in 1080 mode . And you can't rationalize this as just another consumer compromise . All people buying this camera to use it in 1080 mode will obviously see its' faults at 20fps .Even consumers like smooth video ! And how more has canon crippled the cameras' exposure ? dslrs' with articulating lcds' - and I'm willing to bet hard money we'll see an articulating lcd from nikon this year , and then , lagging behind as usual , canon will reluctantly add the art.lcd . And don't forget sonys' replacements for the a300 and 350 which will probably have video as well. sony a300 , a350 olympus e-30 , e-620 , e-3 , e-300

March 25th, 2009, 10:51 AM	#26
Kurth Bousman Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: san miguel allende , gto , mexico Posts: 644	The point is why ? Why didn't they just make it 24p ? I don't buy a "horsepower" reason . The camera has digic4 . It's another Canon Marketing decision which limits the potentials . And further I predict that the coming 5dmkll firmware upgrade will be as likely as the second coming ! Not going to happen . Why ? Canons' marketing mentality . This camera(500d) is not for "soccer moms" . The Rebel has never been for them , it's for photographers who are budget conscious . Soccer moms buy p&s' . And budget conscious photographers still want real features not marketing ploys.

March 25th, 2009, 11:42 AM	#29
Nathan Troutman Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Hoboken, NJ (New York metro area) Posts: 105	This is just the beginning of something that is probably much bigger than what the Sony VX-1000 created. This new Rebel may not be perfect, but the price is pretty outstanding. A couple years ago in the videography world 720P was the big thing because 1080 was only 60i. 24P worshipers will hail the GH1 (and Panasonic fan boys of the DVX/HVX line). But I'm waiting to see what happens with the firmware update on the 5DMKII, what Nikon has coming, when Sony decides to jump in and ultimately who is going to be the one to bite the bullet and put all of this stuff inside a camcorder form-factor and sell it to the videography/indie film-side. Video innovation has been far too stagnant over the last five years - with ever so incremental innovations and very careful protection of product lines. I hail Canon's photo division for blowing the whole thing up and I'm sure Canon's video division is really really pissed about it. The perfect product has not yet emerged, but it's nice to have a lot of options. It's only going to get better.