Casio EX-F1 720p30 video- impressive!

[Dan Chung]

Daniel,

Amazing, I just tested this on my EX-F1 and it works! Quick question, did you manage to get the camera to set a shutter speed of something other than 1/60th in BS mode?

Dan

[Daniel Thornton]

I can not change the shutter speed in BS mode. When I choose BS mode (portrait) it seems to adjust the white balance correctly. Any other choice in BS mode just shifts the white balance.

[Steve Nunez]

The EX F1 produces fantastic video and has to be the sleeper hit of 2008!
With DT's revelation of video optimized "BS" modes- it's producing footage that rivals the HF10/100's!
(I've owned both!)

(It also has a huge sensor which is no doubt helping it's video quality)

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Daniel Thornton

I can not change the shutter speed in BS mode. When I choose BS mode (portrait) it seems to adjust the white balance correctly. Any other choice in BS mode just shifts the white balance.

Portrait opens iris for minimum DOF which means shutter-speed does wherever it needs to go.

To limit noise you need to limit the ISO -- which you can't do in Movie mode. But, certain BS modes gain may be limit it. I always try Night or Night Portrait mode which may limit gain to about 1/3 to 1/2 of its maximum (+18dB). Which would be 800 or 500 (of 1600) -- which is too high. We need to limit gain to 400. Night drops shutter-speed, hopefully only to 1/30th which gains a stop of light.

However, here's the deal -- the camera has good quality at 200ISO -- perhaps to 400ISO. This is about a typical HD camcorder with 0dB gain. While you can add +9dB with a camcorder, who can't with the EX1. So, you must add light. Bottom-line, you may be able to limit the ISO using BS, you can't make the camera more sensitive. You'll need to add light.

How about posting some shots indoors with about 200W of light. Try Night or Night Portrait, please.

STEVE -- how about using ExposureRoom. ER accepts 720p30 and shows 720p30 so it does not drop frames as does Vimeo which only accepts 720p24.

PS: both 720p and 1080i edit great in Avid Media Composer. And, in FCP.

[Dan Chung]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

STEVE -- how about using ExposureRoom. ER accepts 720p30 and shows 720p30 so it does not drop frames as does Vimeo which only accepts 720p24.

Steve, I thought they both converted to 15 fps like Youtube, is this not correct? I thought the whole argument for 30p was that is went into 15fps easily and gave smoother motion.

Dan

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Dan Chung

Steve, I thought they both converted to 15 fps like Youtube, is this not correct? I thought the whole argument for 30p was that is went into 15fps easily and gave smoother motion.

Dan

Vimeo HD = 720p24

ER = 720p30

[Dan Chung]

Thanks Steve,

That's genuinely useful. I wonder what both of these do to 25p PAL land output?

Dan

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Dan Chung

Thanks Steve,

That's genuinely useful. I wonder what both of these do to 25p PAL land output?

Dan

Video still drops frames while ER works at 720p25.

[Steve Mullen]

The EX-F1 files can also be edited in Premiere Pro CS3.

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Daniel Thornton

Yes, you can set the shutter speed and shoot video. I do not like the way the video looks. There is too much noise for my tastes.

As I posted at your Vimeo site, 1/60th is correct. If there is too much noise it's because the gain has increased.

According to the manual, when shooting movies, ISO goes to AUTO. In fact the manual claims when shooting SD/HD movies, the camera goes to full AUTO for shutter and iris. So I'm not sure why you feel you actually SET shutter and iris. These settings you set may ONLY apply to STILLS you take.

You want a BS mode that forces 1/60th and ISO 200. And, does nothing else.

What settings does the manual say are forced when you go to PORTRAIT?

How about FIREWORKS?

On the Sony SR12, this setting limits gain to +0dB and lowers the shutter-speed to 1/50th or 1/60th second.

[Daniel Thornton]

I think you are right that the camera goes to full auto. I can change shutter speed and f stop and the camera takes the change but then I don't believe it uses these settings when shooting a movie. It would be nice to have Casio explain just what is taking place when you choose different settings.
I tested some different settings over the weekend and in movie mode I can adjust the EV value and white balance. The default EV value of 0.0 puts the whites over 110. I can lower this to -0.7EV and this lowers the highlights to just below 100. I still have details in the whites even at 110. Which is great. When shooting a movie the F1 always goes to auto focus which I can then lock. I wish I could zoom in, focus and then reframe the shot but when you use the zoom it reverts back to auto focus ever time. Maybe Casio could change this.
I just shot a school play and the camera did great. I shoot over 1 hr HD 1280 x 720 with no problems. This produces a 4 gig file. I have a 16 gig sdhc card so I can get over 4 hrs of HD with out changing the card. I have had no over heating problems yet. In SD, I can get over 3 hrs per 4 gigs. For multi camera shoots, I could set the F1 on a tripod, frame the shot, lock focus and capture. I have had no problems editing these files in Sony Vegas. At $900.00 this is one sweet baby.
The F1 is definitely not the one camera that fits all situations. But I am getting some very nice shots with it. Think of the F1 as just another tool to produce good video.

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Daniel Thornton

It would be nice to have Casio explain just what is taking place when you choose different settings.

I tested some different settings over the weekend and in movie mode I can adjust the EV value and white balance. The default EV value of 0.0 puts the whites over 110. I can lower this to -0.7EV and this lowers the highlights to just below 100. I still have details in the whites even at 110. Which is great.

When shooting a movie the F1 always goes to auto focus which I can then lock.

At $900.00 this is one sweet baby.

Great that you are following this thread. The manual is USELESS and not even on paper!

1) So we can set EV to prevent highlight blow-out. What about using EV=0 and adjusting Dynamic Range down by 1 or 2. In general it's OK to have signal levels go to 105 as long as pure black goes to zero. That would allow EV to adjust Exposure. (I can believe there is no exposure dial or no ability to set the lens ring. Casio seems assume AE will be perfect.

2) Great the WB is settable.

3) So AUTO means: AE (which means it controls shutter and iris), AF, and gain (ISO). But, one can lock both AE and AF during each shot which is very good.

4) One can frame a subject and press Still Shutter half way to get AF and AE and then press AE/AF LOCK.

But, can one switch to MF and not have the camera switch back to AF when you start recording a movie?

If the camera will stay in MF, then one simply zooms in fully and uses the lens ring to adjust focus. Then zoom-back.

5) There's two ways AE can function. It can try to keep the shutter at 1/60th and use the iris for exposure control. (This is good.) Or, it can try to keep the iris at about f/4 and use the shutter for exposure control. This is very bad for 720p30 because in bright light the shutter may move up to 1/250th which causes judder. The shutter needs to stay at 1/60th. With the huge shutter range I suspect it uses shutter for exposure control.

You can check this by shooting traffic in an intersection on a bright day using 720p30. If you see double images on fast moving cars when you play it back on your HDTV, then the shutter is too fast.

6) Supposedly you can use some of the BS modes with Movie. Can you report the internal settings for: Portrait, Night Portrait, Night, Fireworks, and Twilight.

Although Portrait may limit ISO as folks report, I'll bet it raises shutter speed very high.

Night Portrait, Night, Fireworks, and Twilight should all limit gain (ISO) to keep noise low. But, some of them may also control shutter speed. Some may force the speed to 1/30th. (OK for 720p30, but bad for 1080i.) Some may allow it to go much lower. (Bad for both.) But, some may lock at 1/60th.

My bet would be on Fireworks. However, it may set WB to something so you need to check what it is. If daylight, that's OK.

Could you post the list of Movie BS modes.

7) Lastly, how bad do you find the narrow field of view when you switch to Movie mode? Supposedly, Wide becomes 45mm which is not wide at all. On a 35mm camera it is Normal.

Sorry for all the questions.

PS: Where did you get it for $900?????????

[Graham Hickling]

So I just checked and the sensor is 7.18mm by 5.32mm (maybe not all used for video though). Is that big enough to .. um... be excited about? Micro 4/3 will be MUCH bigger, right?

[Bob Thompson]

It maybe worth waiting for the Panasonic G1HD camera to come out, it apparently will shoot HD (don't know what format) but because it is a 4/3 camera the lenses are very compact

[Jay Birch]

Here are a few samples, for anyone interested... (with a few small tweaks in After effects)

http://65.38.105.34/test/surf.mov (720p - 50mb)
http://65.38.105.34/test/gull.mov (720p - 26mb)
http://65.38.105.34/test/casio.mov (1080p - 8mb, using frame burst)

For the price, I love this little camera. It is small enough to take pretty much anywhere and so easy to work with that you know 99% of your shots are gonna be usable. Colours are great and can even get a bit of shallow DOF in the right circumstances. The timelapse feature is pretty handy too.