Are there generic p2 cards for the HVX? at DVinfo.net

David Delaney · July 24th, 2007, 03:59 PM

Have they come out with generic p2 card for the HVX yet? It has been almost two years now, I would have thought someone would have - unless it is proprietary to Pana and they won't license it...

----------------------------------

Admin Update 06 Feb. 2008: Hoodman Corporation has cancelled its P2 card project.

See http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....5&postcount=80 / Admin

----------------------------------

Chris Hurd · July 24th, 2007, 06:40 PM

See http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=91386

Robert Lane · July 28th, 2007, 10:00 AM

I spoke directly with one of the sales people at Hoodman USA who is making their version of a 16GB P2 card. According to [the saleswoman] the reason they've been silent so far about the card is that when Panny announced the firmware update for the new cards that set back their engineering and they had to reconfigure. Unfortunately she was not very tech-savvy and couldn't address the actual issues they came across but it seems my initial concerns about a third-party card being able to talk properly to the cameras were correct.

She also could not confirm whether or not their card would allow for "Repair Clip" and other P2-specific functionality. As I mentioned in another thread about these upcoming cards, that my main concern is that since P2 cards are actually (4) SD modules in a RAID-0 array ergo there is a controller on the cards that manages the communication, and the camera is specifically looking for this controller communication, that since Hoodman P2 is a single RAM module design that there must be some compromises made in either communication (such as being able to repair a clip) or speed. Exactly what the implications of their card will be can't be known until it ships and it's tested.

She did say they expect to release their P2 card by mid-September for approximately 15-20% less than Panny P2 pricing. When asked why none of this was on their website yet or why there was no posting of updates she only said that this and other info would be posted on their site "soon".

So, Hoodman P2 is officially coming but actual compatibility specs and usage are still unknown.

Steve Rosen · July 28th, 2007, 11:16 AM

Robert: That's interesting information, but it does bring up an obvious question.. since, as far as I know, there are no other user applications at the time for P2 cards other than Panasonic cameras, why would they bother to create a card that isn't fully compatable?

In my case at least the whole P2 thing is somewhat nerve-wracking.. Since I've only been doing this for a month and a half (admittedly with zero problems) I am still having sleepless nights "waiting for the other shoe to drop" ie, a card to fail and the loss of irreplaceable footage..

It would take a lot, I mean a LOT, to convince me to buy a questionable 3rd party product even if it was half the price...

Seth Melnick · July 29th, 2007, 03:45 PM

I have shot a couple of thousand cards and never had a lost clip or an issue - so I believe it is a foolproof system if you have redundent storage.

I agree though - a third party p2 card would have to be 75% cheaper for me to consider it - panny p2 cards have come down in price so much that I dont beleive there is room in the market for others

David Saraceno · July 30th, 2007, 03:14 PM

Yes, they are a lot cheaper.

Problem is and has been that you can't find them anywhere.

Peter Gresham · July 30th, 2007, 08:16 PM

Yes, I agree. The "pro-sumer" customer will go after price, moreso than the "pro"... but that price will have to be more than a 15-20% difference.

Unless Hoodman realise this, I suspect their sales targets for the alternative will be unrealised.

Steve Rosen · July 31st, 2007, 10:16 AM

Seth: You said you've shot a couple of thousand cards?..whew, that's a lot!!! Are they 4 or 8 gig cards?

I've shot (16g cards) for the last month and a half with the HPX500, probably 30+ hours of "footage" (we need a new term here) and haven't had a problem, as I said...

I do back everything up twice, though, and - I hate to be the one that says the emporer isn't wearing any clothes - honestly I think this work flow takes more time, not less, than tape because of the backups...

I may admittedly be creating more redundancy than necessary, and the harddrives are piling up, but it would be disaster to lose anything in the middle of this year and half fully funded feature length documentary I'm making - but it would also be a disaster to lose the image of your daughters first step...

The point, relative to this topic, is that these cards get hot, as anyone who has immediately removed one can testify... I wonder how many heating and cooling cycles they can take - and how far I personally would trust a third party card without a good track record like the one Seth has with the Panasonic cards?

Gene Crucean · July 31st, 2007, 05:31 PM

I love how everyone assumes that 3rd party cards are going to be lower quality. How does anyone know? They might come manufactured from titanium, plated in iridium, lined in diamonds, twice the speed, half the weight and half the price.

... who knows :)

Steve Rosen · August 2nd, 2007, 09:30 AM

Gene: You're right - "who knows".. problem is, I don't want to be the one who finds out one way or the other.. These 3rd party cards may be better, they have every reason to be given that they have to compete with a large corp like Panasonic.

But, and this is a big one, I'm shooting a film on someone else's dime, and it's a good-sized dime, so I need to be cautious when entering the unknown...

Ash Greyson · August 3rd, 2007, 01:58 AM

I will be checking them out. The beauty of second to the market products is that they dont have to roll in years of R&D into the price. I heard at NAB they were going to be 30% cheaper, if so, I will be buying at least one.

----------------------------------

Admin Update 06 Feb. 2008: Hoodman Corporation has cancelled its P2 card project.

See http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....5&postcount=80 / Admin

----------------------------------

July 24th, 2007, 03:59 PM	#1
David Delaney Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Niagara Ontario Canada Posts: 1,121	Are there generic p2 cards for the HVX? Have they come out with generic p2 card for the HVX yet? It has been almost two years now, I would have thought someone would have - unless it is proprietary to Pana and they won't license it... ---------------------------------- Admin Update 06 Feb. 2008: Hoodman Corporation has cancelled its P2 card project. See http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....5&postcount=80 / Admin ----------------------------------

July 24th, 2007, 06:40 PM	#2
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	See http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=91386 __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

July 28th, 2007, 10:00 AM	#3
Robert Lane Go Go Godzilla Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA Posts: 2,823 Images: 15	Update I spoke directly with one of the sales people at Hoodman USA who is making their version of a 16GB P2 card. According to [the saleswoman] the reason they've been silent so far about the card is that when Panny announced the firmware update for the new cards that set back their engineering and they had to reconfigure. Unfortunately she was not very tech-savvy and couldn't address the actual issues they came across but it seems my initial concerns about a third-party card being able to talk properly to the cameras were correct. She also could not confirm whether or not their card would allow for "Repair Clip" and other P2-specific functionality. As I mentioned in another thread about these upcoming cards, that my main concern is that since P2 cards are actually (4) SD modules in a RAID-0 array ergo there is a controller on the cards that manages the communication, and the camera is specifically looking for this controller communication, that since Hoodman P2 is a single RAM module design that there must be some compromises made in either communication (such as being able to repair a clip) or speed. Exactly what the implications of their card will be can't be known until it ships and it's tested. She did say they expect to release their P2 card by mid-September for approximately 15-20% less than Panny P2 pricing. When asked why none of this was on their website yet or why there was no posting of updates she only said that this and other info would be posted on their site "soon". So, Hoodman P2 is officially coming but actual compatibility specs and usage are still unknown.

July 28th, 2007, 11:16 AM	#4
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	Robert: That's interesting information, but it does bring up an obvious question.. since, as far as I know, there are no other user applications at the time for P2 cards other than Panasonic cameras, why would they bother to create a card that isn't fully compatable? In my case at least the whole P2 thing is somewhat nerve-wracking.. Since I've only been doing this for a month and a half (admittedly with zero problems) I am still having sleepless nights "waiting for the other shoe to drop" ie, a card to fail and the loss of irreplaceable footage.. It would take a lot, I mean a LOT, to convince me to buy a questionable 3rd party product even if it was half the price...

July 29th, 2007, 03:45 PM	#5
Seth Melnick Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 28	I have shot a couple of thousand cards and never had a lost clip or an issue - so I believe it is a foolproof system if you have redundent storage. I agree though - a third party p2 card would have to be 75% cheaper for me to consider it - panny p2 cards have come down in price so much that I dont beleive there is room in the market for others

July 30th, 2007, 03:14 PM	#6
David Saraceno Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Inland Northwest Posts: 490	Yes, they are a lot cheaper. Problem is and has been that you can't find them anywhere.

July 30th, 2007, 08:16 PM	#7
Peter Gresham New Boot Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Adelaide, South Australia Posts: 5	Yes, I agree. The "pro-sumer" customer will go after price, moreso than the "pro"... but that price will have to be more than a 15-20% difference. Unless Hoodman realise this, I suspect their sales targets for the alternative will be unrealised.

July 31st, 2007, 10:16 AM	#8
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	Seth: You said you've shot a couple of thousand cards?..whew, that's a lot!!! Are they 4 or 8 gig cards? I've shot (16g cards) for the last month and a half with the HPX500, probably 30+ hours of "footage" (we need a new term here) and haven't had a problem, as I said... I do back everything up twice, though, and - I hate to be the one that says the emporer isn't wearing any clothes - honestly I think this work flow takes more time, not less, than tape because of the backups... I may admittedly be creating more redundancy than necessary, and the harddrives are piling up, but it would be disaster to lose anything in the middle of this year and half fully funded feature length documentary I'm making - but it would also be a disaster to lose the image of your daughters first step... The point, relative to this topic, is that these cards get hot, as anyone who has immediately removed one can testify... I wonder how many heating and cooling cycles they can take - and how far I personally would trust a third party card without a good track record like the one Seth has with the Panasonic cards?

July 31st, 2007, 05:31 PM	#9
Gene Crucean Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 295	I love how everyone assumes that 3rd party cards are going to be lower quality. How does anyone know? They might come manufactured from titanium, plated in iridium, lined in diamonds, twice the speed, half the weight and half the price. ... who knows :)

August 2nd, 2007, 09:30 AM	#10
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	Gene: You're right - "who knows".. problem is, I don't want to be the one who finds out one way or the other.. These 3rd party cards may be better, they have every reason to be given that they have to compete with a large corp like Panasonic. But, and this is a big one, I'm shooting a film on someone else's dime, and it's a good-sized dime, so I need to be cautious when entering the unknown...

August 3rd, 2007, 01:58 AM	#11
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	I will be checking them out. The beauty of second to the market products is that they dont have to roll in years of R&D into the price. I heard at NAB they were going to be 30% cheaper, if so, I will be buying at least one. ---------------------------------- Admin Update 06 Feb. 2008: Hoodman Corporation has cancelled its P2 card project. See http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....5&postcount=80 / Admin ----------------------------------