HPX-500 & Event Shooting at DVinfo.net

Jay Lee · June 4th, 2007, 12:10 PM

I'm currently evaluating the HPX-500 for doing event work for the company I work for. I like the idea of th P2 workflow in terms of being able to log and assemble the footage on-site for quick turnaround for the end product. The drawback I see is the lack of time available on the cards. If I shoot at DVCPRO 50, I can get 136 mins, is that correct? I'm also assuming that I could shoot at 60i/4:3.

Has anyone timed the ingest for a 16GB card? I'd be using a laptop for ingest.

The other thing I realized is that the shooting environments I'm in aren't always well lit. For example, I was using a DVX100a this weekend and shooting at f2.2 to open using the cine_D setting at 30p. I'm wondering if the HVX-500 will have enough low end sensitivity. Has anyone seen what kind of noise is generated when bumping up the gain 3-6 db?

I'm basically doing one man band, run & gun in a variety of shooting environments. I'd appreciate any thoughts on how appropriate this camera is for this kind of shooting. My end product is generally Web based for a corporate audience. Shooting for DVD or broadcast commercials would also be a possibility.

Thanks

Robert Lane · June 4th, 2007, 08:46 PM

Jay,

To answer all your questions in full would make for a painfully large reply; thankfully most of your questions have already been addressed and some in multiple threads. Use the "search" feature of the site to quickly find what you're looking for. "Low light" has been covered in ad-nauseam through several threads. In fact, take a look at Joe Lawry's post on testing low-light on the 500.

The one question that hasn't been clearly addressed - or at least in an easily found answer is ingest time for P2 cards...

This depends mostly on which method you're using and on what platform. If you use HOST mode for example the transfer is basically just under a gig-per-minute on the Mac side and slightly less on the PC side. If you use a direct-copy using a PCMCIA slot on a laptop it's even faster since the bus speed is greater on that interface but again, it's different between Mac and PC.

However, if you read Barry's post about Raylight for Mac (it's been PC available for about a year) this could drastically change your workflow depending on how you plan your shoots.

Jay Lee · June 4th, 2007, 09:40 PM

Thanks Robert. My ingest plan is to use the new version of Premiere along with the Matrox RTX2 v.3 for ingest and editing. Apparently, this should do native editing of video from the P2 cards. I'll be bringing those directly into a PCMCIA slot on the laptop. Sounds like this should be a pretty efficient system. My only expereince with the P2 workflow involved using a P2 store and HVX which didn't go too well. We did a rental and didn't do enough testing though which seems like a requisite part of adopting any new workflow. I guess I'm worried that the ingest of a 16GB card might take too much time in the course of shooting an event.

Since the HPX500 is just hitting the streets, I'm one of many that want to see footage and hear the experiences of those that have been fortunate enought to use it. You bet I've been downloading the footage today ;-). Unfotunately, everything seems to be done outdoors, which only shows part of the cameras capabilities, but it was good to see the various gain settings from Joe's footage.

And we are agreed that Search is our friend. That being said, I've been looking all around today to see what kind of DC output is available for an on-camera light. I was assuming that since it's an AB system, a powertap output would be a given, but can't find any mention of that. From what I've seen there's only a 4 pin DC output (not familiar with this connection). Would like to know how to best power a light from the camera batteries.

Uli Mors · June 30th, 2007, 03:00 AM

no prob with AB power tap - this should be part of the AB plate on the backside.

(I only know AB plates with that tap)

ULI

Tim Polster · June 30th, 2007, 07:45 AM

Jay,

I understand your situation.

I shoot a lot of events as well, and this area is the weakest for this camera, IMHO.

Some events are long, up to 4+ hours.

With the P2 system, this is a very expensive situation for SD, forget about HD.

This will improve over time as the cards get larger, but I think it is a no go at this time.

The last thing you want to happen is to have 136 min of recording time and the event goes 144 min!

Which you know often occurs.

Uli Mors · July 1st, 2007, 02:42 AM

Same dilemma with me - I do a lot of events / social event filming - and won´t afford a whole bunch of 16gig P2 cards...

I am torn between HPX500 and PDW-F330, xdcam hd is easier regarding the professional disc (put a new one in, done), but it seems the HPX has the better low light capacities and less noise when filming und bad light event conditions.

What about Firestore? How reliable is it and is there a way to keep the fiwi cable in place?
Firestore has (as far as I know) proven in DV/HDV , but dvcproHD recordings are 4 times data (100mbitps) - much more work for a small harddrive - how does it handle this data stream , what about buffering , event action (shaky camera vs. HD HEad) etc etc.?

I am not sure if I can or want trust in a Firestore-only filming...

Uli

Tim Polster · July 1st, 2007, 08:12 AM

The decision on which camera to purchase is quite difficult.

For me the HPX-500, PDW-330/350, SI2k and the Grass Valley Infinity are considered in the same price bracket.

After owning some different SD cameras, this time I am shopping for lattitude first.

HD has the sharpness covered, If I am going to spend $20,000+, I want better looking highlights and more detail in the shadows.

And, I also would need a long record time capability.

I have to say, for $20,000, the HPX-500 footage I have seen from downloading clips looks like the highlights were challenging the chips.

But I would like to see a lot more from all of these cameras to be able to judge them properly.

A four camera shootout would be nice.

June 4th, 2007, 12:10 PM	#1
Jay Lee Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 57	HPX-500 & Event Shooting I'm currently evaluating the HPX-500 for doing event work for the company I work for. I like the idea of th P2 workflow in terms of being able to log and assemble the footage on-site for quick turnaround for the end product. The drawback I see is the lack of time available on the cards. If I shoot at DVCPRO 50, I can get 136 mins, is that correct? I'm also assuming that I could shoot at 60i/4:3. Has anyone timed the ingest for a 16GB card? I'd be using a laptop for ingest. The other thing I realized is that the shooting environments I'm in aren't always well lit. For example, I was using a DVX100a this weekend and shooting at f2.2 to open using the cine_D setting at 30p. I'm wondering if the HVX-500 will have enough low end sensitivity. Has anyone seen what kind of noise is generated when bumping up the gain 3-6 db? I'm basically doing one man band, run & gun in a variety of shooting environments. I'd appreciate any thoughts on how appropriate this camera is for this kind of shooting. My end product is generally Web based for a corporate audience. Shooting for DVD or broadcast commercials would also be a possibility. Thanks

June 4th, 2007, 08:46 PM	#2
Robert Lane Go Go Godzilla Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA Posts: 2,825 Images: 15	Jay, To answer all your questions in full would make for a painfully large reply; thankfully most of your questions have already been addressed and some in multiple threads. Use the "search" feature of the site to quickly find what you're looking for. "Low light" has been covered in ad-nauseam through several threads. In fact, take a look at Joe Lawry's post on testing low-light on the 500. The one question that hasn't been clearly addressed - or at least in an easily found answer is ingest time for P2 cards... This depends mostly on which method you're using and on what platform. If you use HOST mode for example the transfer is basically just under a gig-per-minute on the Mac side and slightly less on the PC side. If you use a direct-copy using a PCMCIA slot on a laptop it's even faster since the bus speed is greater on that interface but again, it's different between Mac and PC. However, if you read Barry's post about Raylight for Mac (it's been PC available for about a year) this could drastically change your workflow depending on how you plan your shoots.

June 4th, 2007, 09:40 PM	#3
Jay Lee Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 57	Thanks Robert. My ingest plan is to use the new version of Premiere along with the Matrox RTX2 v.3 for ingest and editing. Apparently, this should do native editing of video from the P2 cards. I'll be bringing those directly into a PCMCIA slot on the laptop. Sounds like this should be a pretty efficient system. My only expereince with the P2 workflow involved using a P2 store and HVX which didn't go too well. We did a rental and didn't do enough testing though which seems like a requisite part of adopting any new workflow. I guess I'm worried that the ingest of a 16GB card might take too much time in the course of shooting an event. Since the HPX500 is just hitting the streets, I'm one of many that want to see footage and hear the experiences of those that have been fortunate enought to use it. You bet I've been downloading the footage today ;-). Unfotunately, everything seems to be done outdoors, which only shows part of the cameras capabilities, but it was good to see the various gain settings from Joe's footage. And we are agreed that Search is our friend. That being said, I've been looking all around today to see what kind of DC output is available for an on-camera light. I was assuming that since it's an AB system, a powertap output would be a given, but can't find any mention of that. From what I've seen there's only a 4 pin DC output (not familiar with this connection). Would like to know how to best power a light from the camera batteries.

June 30th, 2007, 03:00 AM	#4
Uli Mors Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 565	no prob with AB power tap - this should be part of the AB plate on the backside. (I only know AB plates with that tap) ULI

June 30th, 2007, 07:45 AM	#5
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	Jay, I understand your situation. I shoot a lot of events as well, and this area is the weakest for this camera, IMHO. Some events are long, up to 4+ hours. With the P2 system, this is a very expensive situation for SD, forget about HD. This will improve over time as the cards get larger, but I think it is a no go at this time. The last thing you want to happen is to have 136 min of recording time and the event goes 144 min! Which you know often occurs.

July 1st, 2007, 02:42 AM	#6
Uli Mors Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 565	Same dilemma with me - I do a lot of events / social event filming - and won´t afford a whole bunch of 16gig P2 cards... I am torn between HPX500 and PDW-F330, xdcam hd is easier regarding the professional disc (put a new one in, done), but it seems the HPX has the better low light capacities and less noise when filming und bad light event conditions. What about Firestore? How reliable is it and is there a way to keep the fiwi cable in place? Firestore has (as far as I know) proven in DV/HDV , but dvcproHD recordings are 4 times data (100mbitps) - much more work for a small harddrive - how does it handle this data stream , what about buffering , event action (shaky camera vs. HD HEad) etc etc.? I am not sure if I can or want trust in a Firestore-only filming... Uli

July 1st, 2007, 08:12 AM	#7
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	The decision on which camera to purchase is quite difficult. For me the HPX-500, PDW-330/350, SI2k and the Grass Valley Infinity are considered in the same price bracket. After owning some different SD cameras, this time I am shopping for lattitude first. HD has the sharpness covered, If I am going to spend $20,000+, I want better looking highlights and more detail in the shadows. And, I also would need a long record time capability. I have to say, for $20,000, the HPX-500 footage I have seen from downloading clips looks like the highlights were challenging the chips. But I would like to see a lot more from all of these cameras to be able to judge them properly. A four camera shootout would be nice.