1080i vs 1080i 30p at DVinfo.net

Barry Bittman · March 5th, 2007, 03:57 PM

I'm new to the camera and despite a great deal of reading, am confused about the formats. I'm about to shoot some nature and ocean footage, will edit in FCP and hope to some day output to Blue-Ray or HD DVD. Which format should I use - 1080i or 1080i p30? Is there an advantage of one over the other? I cannot seem to find the answer and would greatly appreciate your help.

Thanks in advance. Barry

Mike Schrengohst · March 6th, 2007, 06:09 AM

What is your goal?? I would look at the 1080 24pA mode as well.
1080 30p will produce a more fluid video look. At this point I would not shoot 1080 60i....The interlacing might be evident on progressive displays.

John Huling · March 6th, 2007, 06:40 AM

I recently had similar issues. It was a simple solution. Shoot 24P. The only way I could be assured of no interlace artifacts was to shoot 1080 24P. Having come from a "film based" background I have a lot to learn about video.

I have not tried it yet, but it was also recommended to shoot 1080 30P and bring it into a 60i timeline.

If there is a recommended work flow in 30P I would appreciate knowing what it is. (HDV to DV for DVD and WEB publishing) Also the slow-mo in this setting does not work as well as 60i but that's another problem I will have to solve.

Charles Hurley · March 6th, 2007, 02:19 PM

1080i 24p captures 24 progressive frames and doles them out to 59.94i. If you want filmlike cadence and want to go back out to broadcast this is for you.

1080i 24pa captures 24 progresssive frames and doles them out to 59.94i with a removable pulldown to edit and deliver at 24p, film or progressive dvd.

1080i 30p captures 30 progressive frames and doles them out to 59.94i Nice for Docs and such where cinema cadence is perhaps to jarrring but full on 60i is too videoish.

1080i 59.94 Good for sports, reality, and fast motion. With 59.94 you can use higher shutter speeds without the exaggerated motion effects of the progresssive modes.

All of these modes save the pa should be imported and edited in a 59.94i timeline. For the pa mode import into a 23.98 and remove duplicate frames on import.

Good Luck, Charles.

John Huling · March 6th, 2007, 02:53 PM

Charles
If yuo go 1080i 60 how do you get rid of the stairstepped edges/interlace that it creates? I managed to rid myself of "them" by going 1080 24P

Barry Bittman · March 6th, 2007, 05:50 PM

Thank you for taking time to answer my question. Unfortunately, there isn't a great deal of understandable info available on this topic. I really appreciate your perspectives. With appreciation, Barry

Charles Hurley · March 8th, 2007, 02:19 AM

John. 1080i at 59.94 in inarguably the smoothest form of playback available for the hvx. What are you talking about specifically. If you import your 59.94i footage into the proper sequence there shouldnt be any artifacts interlaced or otherwise. You might double check your settings. Good luck.

John Huling · March 8th, 2007, 06:29 AM

Charles
Thanks for the comment. When I shot a 15 sec clip just for a test in HDV 1080 60 >Captured to FCP as 1080 60 in the timeline saved as a self or ref QT mov (also went straight to Compressor made no difference) Opened in Compressor and submitted as a 90min best SD. Made a DVD in DVD Studio Pro and or a QT web movie. Viewed the image on a 26 inch Sony HDTV monitor and computer Screen. The video always exhibited jagged edges, stair stepping, interlace. As soon as I went with 24 P it was gone. I consulted with several different "certified experts". The advice that worked for me was 24P. If you want to email me a detailed work flow from shooting to web and or DVD that does not have any jagged edges let me know. I fiqured if the guys I spoke with could not fiqure it out I certainly was not going to be able to.

Charles Hurley · March 8th, 2007, 06:08 PM

I tried it and got interlacing artifacts as well but I supsect they wouldn't be there if I were using an interlaced CRT. Just make it easy and shoot 24p or 30p. No interlacing=No interlacing artifacts. 1080i will be gone in a couple of years anyway. Good Luck.

Gary L Childress · March 12th, 2007, 12:18 AM

Well actually, 1080i is not going away any time soon as there is no planned broadcast support for 1080p nor do most of the networks care to go there. As it is they are playing bit rate reduction games, not caring much about picture improvement.

Movies yes, HD-DVD, Blue-ray yes. Broadcast/cable television no.

David Heath · March 12th, 2007, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary L Childress

........there is no planned broadcast support for 1080p nor do most of the networks care to go there.

Not for 1080p as such, but for 1080psf there most certainly is. ("Psf" = "progressive, segmented frame"). As long as you are happy with 24/25Hz motion ("film look") that's a way of carrying a true progressive picture over an interlace transmission path, and is how most drama etc programming is seen in Europe. And for sport etc just use the chain in interlace mode.

Charles Hurley · March 13th, 2007, 11:03 PM

You're right, the networks don't care at all about compression efficiency or next generation formats. I worked a gig today for Miramax where they talked about reintroducing VHS as the future of broadcast.

March 5th, 2007, 03:57 PM	#1
Barry Bittman Tourist Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Meadville, PA Posts: 2	1080i vs 1080i 30p I'm new to the camera and despite a great deal of reading, am confused about the formats. I'm about to shoot some nature and ocean footage, will edit in FCP and hope to some day output to Blue-Ray or HD DVD. Which format should I use - 1080i or 1080i p30? Is there an advantage of one over the other? I cannot seem to find the answer and would greatly appreciate your help. Thanks in advance. Barry

March 6th, 2007, 06:09 AM	#2
Mike Schrengohst Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 355	What is your goal?? I would look at the 1080 24pA mode as well. 1080 30p will produce a more fluid video look. At this point I would not shoot 1080 60i....The interlacing might be evident on progressive displays. __________________ Mike Schrengohst dvd.pro@verizon.net

March 6th, 2007, 06:40 AM	#3
John Huling Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: USA Posts: 172	1080i 24P HDV worked to get rid of interlace artifacts I recently had similar issues. It was a simple solution. Shoot 24P. The only way I could be assured of no interlace artifacts was to shoot 1080 24P. Having come from a "film based" background I have a lot to learn about video. I have not tried it yet, but it was also recommended to shoot 1080 30P and bring it into a 60i timeline. If there is a recommended work flow in 30P I would appreciate knowing what it is. (HDV to DV for DVD and WEB publishing) Also the slow-mo in this setting does not work as well as 60i but that's another problem I will have to solve.

March 6th, 2007, 05:50 PM	#6
Barry Bittman Tourist Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Meadville, PA Posts: 2	Thank You Thank you for taking time to answer my question. Unfortunately, there isn't a great deal of understandable info available on this topic. I really appreciate your perspectives. With appreciation, Barry

March 6th, 2007, 02:19 PM	#4
Charles Hurley Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Brooklyn NY Posts: 128	1080i 24p captures 24 progressive frames and doles them out to 59.94i. If you want filmlike cadence and want to go back out to broadcast this is for you. 1080i 24pa captures 24 progresssive frames and doles them out to 59.94i with a removable pulldown to edit and deliver at 24p, film or progressive dvd. 1080i 30p captures 30 progressive frames and doles them out to 59.94i Nice for Docs and such where cinema cadence is perhaps to jarrring but full on 60i is too videoish. 1080i 59.94 Good for sports, reality, and fast motion. With 59.94 you can use higher shutter speeds without the exaggerated motion effects of the progresssive modes. All of these modes save the pa should be imported and edited in a 59.94i timeline. For the pa mode import into a 23.98 and remove duplicate frames on import. Good Luck, Charles.

March 6th, 2007, 02:53 PM	#5
John Huling Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: USA Posts: 172	Charles If yuo go 1080i 60 how do you get rid of the stairstepped edges/interlace that it creates? I managed to rid myself of "them" by going 1080 24P

March 8th, 2007, 02:19 AM	#7
Charles Hurley Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Brooklyn NY Posts: 128	John. 1080i at 59.94 in inarguably the smoothest form of playback available for the hvx. What are you talking about specifically. If you import your 59.94i footage into the proper sequence there shouldnt be any artifacts interlaced or otherwise. You might double check your settings. Good luck.

March 8th, 2007, 06:29 AM	#8
John Huling Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: USA Posts: 172	Charles Thanks for the comment. When I shot a 15 sec clip just for a test in HDV 1080 60 >Captured to FCP as 1080 60 in the timeline saved as a self or ref QT mov (also went straight to Compressor made no difference) Opened in Compressor and submitted as a 90min best SD. Made a DVD in DVD Studio Pro and or a QT web movie. Viewed the image on a 26 inch Sony HDTV monitor and computer Screen. The video always exhibited jagged edges, stair stepping, interlace. As soon as I went with 24 P it was gone. I consulted with several different "certified experts". The advice that worked for me was 24P. If you want to email me a detailed work flow from shooting to web and or DVD that does not have any jagged edges let me know. I fiqured if the guys I spoke with could not fiqure it out I certainly was not going to be able to.

March 8th, 2007, 06:08 PM	#9
Charles Hurley Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Brooklyn NY Posts: 128	I tried it and got interlacing artifacts as well but I supsect they wouldn't be there if I were using an interlaced CRT. Just make it easy and shoot 24p or 30p. No interlacing=No interlacing artifacts. 1080i will be gone in a couple of years anyway. Good Luck.

March 12th, 2007, 12:18 AM	#10
Gary L Childress Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 42	Well actually, 1080i is not going away any time soon as there is no planned broadcast support for 1080p nor do most of the networks care to go there. As it is they are playing bit rate reduction games, not caring much about picture improvement. Movies yes, HD-DVD, Blue-ray yes. Broadcast/cable television no.

March 13th, 2007, 11:03 PM	#12
Charles Hurley Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Brooklyn NY Posts: 128	You're right, the networks don't care at all about compression efficiency or next generation formats. I worked a gig today for Miramax where they talked about reintroducing VHS as the future of broadcast.