Best way to edit at DVinfo.net

William LiPera · December 3rd, 2006, 09:05 AM

Which software/hadware is best to edit HVX 1080i and 720P P2 footage for the highest quality DVD's and print to HD tape?

Ned Soltz · December 3rd, 2006, 10:53 AM

That's a rather vague and open-ended question. What platform? PC or Mac? What do you mean by HD tape? DVCPRO HD or HDCAM?

I am primarily a Mac person so of course I would say that FCP is the best way to edit. If you want to go back to DVCPRO HD tape to a Panasonic HD1400 (or earlier model of HD1200A) deck, you could go firewire as long as the deck has the firewire board installed. If you want to go out HDCAM, then throw a Kona 3 board in the Mac which can do a real-time uprez and let you go to HDCAM.

On the PC side of things, Canopus Edius Broadcast 4 reads MXF files natively and even mixes different codecs on the same timeline. To go out to HDCAM via SDI, you would need a board from Grass Valley/Canopus for the PC.

You can always acquire directly on a PC configured with DVRack Pro HD and then edit in your PC or Mac editor of choice.

More specifics about your workflow, platform prefs, etc etc would help narrow the question.

Ned Soltz

Robert Lane · December 3rd, 2006, 11:53 AM

William,

Ned is right; that type of question has so many possible answers you'll be flooded with responses from across the board.

The best way to approach this question is from your current hardware/software background. Are you currently a PC or Mac user? As Ned notes, there are options either way but as a general rule it's best not to reinvent the wheel when considering which hardware platform to use when selecting an edit system.

If you're used to the PC-type methodology of finding and organizing files/folders and installing hardware then stay with that route; likewise for the Mac side. Keep in mind, there is no such thing as which platform/hardware is best, it's all about which is best for YOU.

Like Ned, I'm a Mac guy to the core, but I'm currently jealous that Canopus is talking to P2 MXF files without requiring rendering or third-party transcoding (I currently use HDLOG to convert my P2 files into QT's before I import them into FCP). However, it's quite possible that in the next iteration of FCP that MXF will become "native" as well.

However, if your experience and workflow is open-ended, meaning your current setup is not platform dependent then I'd obviously recommend the Mac/FCP route. On the PC side Canopus Broadcast gets the nod, but there are other options that are just as capable/powerful.

The only strong recommendation I can make is if you go the PC route and that because PC's are so susceptible to net-nonsense that it's best to have your edit system and your email/web-browsing system physically separate - don't connect your edit system to the 'net, period. Program updates can be saved to CD and installed to the edit system that way. That will completely eliminate the possibility of any intrusions and will keep your system running it's fastest since you won't have to worry about running anti-virus/anti spy-ware programs in the background stealing valuable system resources.

Barry Kay · December 3rd, 2006, 12:15 PM

What about Avid...I understand that now MXF ARE become "native" plus it can handle most major formats on the same timeline and this new thing I've heard -- of Script-based editing blows my mind.

Andy Nickless · December 3rd, 2006, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Lane

(I currently use HDLOG to convert my P2 files into QT's before I import them into FCP)

Robert, as I've posted elswhere, I'm hoping to collect an HVX200 tomorrow and I must admit, I hadn't bargained on buying any extra hardware for it. I rather gathered I could import (and use) footage via Firewire or by using some sort of card reader (PCMCIA)?

Are you saying I need more hardware to import MXF files into FCP?

The last post on this thread seems to suggest otherwise - but of course, I may have the wrong end of the stick:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread....00424&#2500424

Andy

Mike Schrengohst · December 3rd, 2006, 01:19 PM

Andy,
You can import P2 directly into FCP....
no other software is needed.
With 5.1.2 you can trim the in and outs
and just import the parts you need.
I have both FCP and Edius because I
receive raw .mxf files sometimes......
With Edius you must copy the entire
.mxf file and if you have audio with
it you must still have the entire P2 folder
intact.

Andy Nickless · December 3rd, 2006, 01:40 PM

Thanks Mike -

I have FCP 5.1.2 so that's a relief.

Andy

Mike Schrengohst · December 3rd, 2006, 01:57 PM

Let me know if you need any help after you
get your camera....

Andy Nickless · December 3rd, 2006, 02:04 PM

Thanks again, Mike -
I'd say that's pretty much a dead cert!

Andy

Robert Lane · December 3rd, 2006, 04:25 PM

Andy,

As "MZHD" Mike points out, FCP will take direct import of P2-MXF files however during the import process it must also convert the files to QT's so they are actually usable, which means you must wait for this conversion (rendering if you will) to finish for each clip. It's the same process as importing HDV footage that hasn't been previously converted however it takes a great deal LESS time to convert MXF than HDV (M2T), which is one of the major benefits of the HVX workflow. The speed of your hardware and available RAM will determine how long the import process takes for each clip.

Future releases of FCP (most likely FCP 6) MXF will become a "native" codec and not require conversion/rendering during import, it will simply be drag-drop-edit.

My guess is that by the time both the 2000 and 500 Panny bodies are out FCP will have completely caught up with P2, including the new AVC/H.264 codec that the 2000 will be able to shoot (with add-on card).

Andy Nickless · December 3rd, 2006, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Lane

during the import process it must also convert the files to QT's so they are actually usable, which means you must wait for this conversion (rendering if you will) to finish for each clip.

Thanks - I see now!

Not too much of a problem I hope, as I have a Quad with 8GB RAM.
I read that the process can work in the background while you continue to edit in FCP.

Just can't wait to get the HVX tomorrow!

Andy

Robert Lane · December 3rd, 2006, 05:34 PM

I have the same system/setup with an external array for fast file access/renders. Look for a review on that in the next day or so.

Mike Schrengohst · December 3rd, 2006, 08:39 PM

Someone the other day was describing P2 as a "negative"
and it does not get processed until it is copied or converted.
The thing I like about 5.1.2 is that you can choose to only
import the video (or audio) and you can trim the i/o.
Even though I make a backup copy of the P2 I rarely import
all the clips and now I can only use what I need.

Sergio Perez · December 4th, 2006, 04:37 AM

I'm a Mac person too, but be aware that there have been issues with P2 card imports, P2 stores not mounting and corupt data on the MAC platform concerning the P2 workflow. This is not happening on the PC side of the equation.

Having said that, I had previously invested a lot on a private g5 solution so don't intend to move away soon, and am taking the risk, having had a problem with the P2 store (not mounting certain partition) and in a p2 card import (copied to hardisk first), where one file was corrupted. (since I had already formated the p2 card, that particular clip was lost.)

The best current system (never heard issues with it) seems to be Edius Broadcast, by canopus. I love FCP, with Motion, soundtrack pro and Livetype really making things easier and faster for me in a couple of jobs, but it seems like FCP is not the most reliable solution for P2- maybe with FCP 6...

Barry Kay · December 5th, 2006, 10:49 AM

I am, right now, just a 'semi-professional,' video maker, so I make no claims to super-expertise. (Biggest projects a Safty Training Film, a school education project, one product demonstration, etc. all for non-broadcast).

But now moving up in equipment/software it would be Very Nice to know: Is there a problem with Avid? 'Cause, only being a FCE user I was thinking of getting Avid XPress Pro specifically because it handles HDVPRO HD now and this multi-format editing possible on one timeline sounds like a very useful feature.
Some forum folks have said it's color correction is also better than FCP.

I'll mention that what really STUNNED! me was seing a demonstration of an awesome New Feature I don't think has ever existed in the World before: Script-based editing.

I'm more of a 'writing-guy,' using Final Draft Screenwriting software a lot and Avid says it can: Match/Synch the video to a script! They go on to even say that you can Edit the Video by triming and changing words in the script!

Obviously, I thought, you'd need a special file format for this and - BOOM - there was a freebie update for Final Draft recently and there is was: a special Save As... where the script was saved as: Avid Script-based Editing!

So...unless Avid turns all skin-colors green and destroys video clips, this new idea/feature of 'script-based editing,' blows my mind and although I refrain from frothing at the mouth at New Tech (although I'm certainly an avid techie - ha) - I now feel like a teen-ager waiting overnight for a new PS3.

!?

December 3rd, 2006, 09:05 AM	#1
William LiPera Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 83	Best way to edit Which software/hadware is best to edit HVX 1080i and 720P P2 footage for the highest quality DVD's and print to HD tape?

December 3rd, 2006, 01:19 PM	#6
Mike Schrengohst Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 355	Andy, You can import P2 directly into FCP.... no other software is needed. With 5.1.2 you can trim the in and outs and just import the parts you need. I have both FCP and Edius because I receive raw .mxf files sometimes...... With Edius you must copy the entire .mxf file and if you have audio with it you must still have the entire P2 folder intact. __________________ Mike Schrengohst dvd.pro@verizon.net

December 3rd, 2006, 01:40 PM	#7
Andy Nickless Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Worcester. United Kingdom Posts: 197	Thanks Mike - I have FCP 5.1.2 so that's a relief. Andy __________________ I taught you all I know and still you know nothing.

December 3rd, 2006, 01:57 PM	#8
Mike Schrengohst Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 355	Let me know if you need any help after you get your camera.... __________________ Mike Schrengohst dvd.pro@verizon.net

December 3rd, 2006, 02:04 PM	#9
Andy Nickless Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Worcester. United Kingdom Posts: 197	Thanks again, Mike - I'd say that's pretty much a dead cert! Andy __________________ I taught you all I know and still you know nothing.

December 3rd, 2006, 10:53 AM	#2
Ned Soltz Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Teaneck, NJ Posts: 659	That's a rather vague and open-ended question. What platform? PC or Mac? What do you mean by HD tape? DVCPRO HD or HDCAM? I am primarily a Mac person so of course I would say that FCP is the best way to edit. If you want to go back to DVCPRO HD tape to a Panasonic HD1400 (or earlier model of HD1200A) deck, you could go firewire as long as the deck has the firewire board installed. If you want to go out HDCAM, then throw a Kona 3 board in the Mac which can do a real-time uprez and let you go to HDCAM. On the PC side of things, Canopus Edius Broadcast 4 reads MXF files natively and even mixes different codecs on the same timeline. To go out to HDCAM via SDI, you would need a board from Grass Valley/Canopus for the PC. You can always acquire directly on a PC configured with DVRack Pro HD and then edit in your PC or Mac editor of choice. More specifics about your workflow, platform prefs, etc etc would help narrow the question. Ned Soltz

December 3rd, 2006, 11:53 AM	#3
Robert Lane Go Go Godzilla Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA Posts: 2,825 Images: 15	William, Ned is right; that type of question has so many possible answers you'll be flooded with responses from across the board. The best way to approach this question is from your current hardware/software background. Are you currently a PC or Mac user? As Ned notes, there are options either way but as a general rule it's best not to reinvent the wheel when considering which hardware platform to use when selecting an edit system. If you're used to the PC-type methodology of finding and organizing files/folders and installing hardware then stay with that route; likewise for the Mac side. Keep in mind, there is no such thing as which platform/hardware is best, it's all about which is best for YOU. Like Ned, I'm a Mac guy to the core, but I'm currently jealous that Canopus is talking to P2 MXF files without requiring rendering or third-party transcoding (I currently use HDLOG to convert my P2 files into QT's before I import them into FCP). However, it's quite possible that in the next iteration of FCP that MXF will become "native" as well. However, if your experience and workflow is open-ended, meaning your current setup is not platform dependent then I'd obviously recommend the Mac/FCP route. On the PC side Canopus Broadcast gets the nod, but there are other options that are just as capable/powerful. The only strong recommendation I can make is if you go the PC route and that because PC's are so susceptible to net-nonsense that it's best to have your edit system and your email/web-browsing system physically separate - don't connect your edit system to the 'net, period. Program updates can be saved to CD and installed to the edit system that way. That will completely eliminate the possibility of any intrusions and will keep your system running it's fastest since you won't have to worry about running anti-virus/anti spy-ware programs in the background stealing valuable system resources.

December 3rd, 2006, 12:15 PM	#4
Barry Kay Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Rural, AZ Posts: 29	What about Avid...I understand that now MXF ARE become "native" plus it can handle most major formats on the same timeline and this new thing I've heard -- of Script-based editing blows my mind.

December 3rd, 2006, 04:25 PM	#10
Robert Lane Go Go Godzilla Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA Posts: 2,825 Images: 15	Andy, As "MZHD" Mike points out, FCP will take direct import of P2-MXF files however during the import process it must also convert the files to QT's so they are actually usable, which means you must wait for this conversion (rendering if you will) to finish for each clip. It's the same process as importing HDV footage that hasn't been previously converted however it takes a great deal LESS time to convert MXF than HDV (M2T), which is one of the major benefits of the HVX workflow. The speed of your hardware and available RAM will determine how long the import process takes for each clip. Future releases of FCP (most likely FCP 6) MXF will become a "native" codec and not require conversion/rendering during import, it will simply be drag-drop-edit. My guess is that by the time both the 2000 and 500 Panny bodies are out FCP will have completely caught up with P2, including the new AVC/H.264 codec that the 2000 will be able to shoot (with add-on card).

December 3rd, 2006, 05:34 PM	#12
Robert Lane Go Go Godzilla Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA Posts: 2,825 Images: 15	I have the same system/setup with an external array for fast file access/renders. Look for a review on that in the next day or so.

December 3rd, 2006, 08:39 PM	#13
Mike Schrengohst Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 355	Someone the other day was describing P2 as a "negative" and it does not get processed until it is copied or converted. The thing I like about 5.1.2 is that you can choose to only import the video (or audio) and you can trim the i/o. Even though I make a backup copy of the P2 I rarely import all the clips and now I can only use what I need. __________________ Mike Schrengohst dvd.pro@verizon.net

December 4th, 2006, 04:37 AM	#14
Sergio Perez Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Macau Posts: 331	I'm a Mac person too, but be aware that there have been issues with P2 card imports, P2 stores not mounting and corupt data on the MAC platform concerning the P2 workflow. This is not happening on the PC side of the equation. Having said that, I had previously invested a lot on a private g5 solution so don't intend to move away soon, and am taking the risk, having had a problem with the P2 store (not mounting certain partition) and in a p2 card import (copied to hardisk first), where one file was corrupted. (since I had already formated the p2 card, that particular clip was lost.) The best current system (never heard issues with it) seems to be Edius Broadcast, by canopus. I love FCP, with Motion, soundtrack pro and Livetype really making things easier and faster for me in a couple of jobs, but it seems like FCP is not the most reliable solution for P2- maybe with FCP 6... __________________ If you don't believe in your film, no one else will. Last edited by Sergio Perez; December 4th, 2006 at 05:25 AM.

December 5th, 2006, 10:49 AM	#15
Barry Kay Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Rural, AZ Posts: 29	I am, right now, just a 'semi-professional,' video maker, so I make no claims to super-expertise. (Biggest projects a Safty Training Film, a school education project, one product demonstration, etc. all for non-broadcast). But now moving up in equipment/software it would be Very Nice to know: Is there a problem with Avid? 'Cause, only being a FCE user I was thinking of getting Avid XPress Pro specifically because it handles HDVPRO HD now and this multi-format editing possible on one timeline sounds like a very useful feature. Some forum folks have said it's color correction is also better than FCP. I'll mention that what really STUNNED! me was seing a demonstration of an awesome New Feature I don't think has ever existed in the World before: Script-based editing. I'm more of a 'writing-guy,' using Final Draft Screenwriting software a lot and Avid says it can: Match/Synch the video to a script! They go on to even say that you can Edit the Video by triming and changing words in the script! Obviously, I thought, you'd need a special file format for this and - BOOM - there was a freebie update for Final Draft recently and there is was: a special Save As... where the script was saved as: Avid Script-based Editing! So...unless Avid turns all skin-colors green and destroys video clips, this new idea/feature of 'script-based editing,' blows my mind and although I refrain from frothing at the mouth at New Tech (although I'm certainly an avid techie - ha) - I now feel like a teen-ager waiting overnight for a new PS3. !?