Sony HVR-Z1 / Panasonic AG-HVX200 Dilemma

[Mike Schrengohst]

Hello Barry,
I have not done an exact count but about 75% of the clips on our site are shot with the HVX. The shooter/animator count breaks out like this:

40 - HVX

6 - Animators

4 - Timelapse with DSLR

16 - Other camera

[Phil Bloom]

I own a z1 and a hvx200. they really are two completely differents beasts. In the TV documentary world the z1 is a real standard. everyone knows how to use and everyone can take its recordings, certainly in DVCam mode.

The HVX does have a hell of a lot more cool features, especially the variable frame rate and the workflow is great if you can afford the cards. But as ageneral workhorse camera that can easily switch from SD to HD the z1 is the better beast for that...

[Andy Nickless]

Phil,

Thanks for that - it's good to get a comment from someone who knows both cameras. I get your point about compatibility with the Z1 but in our case, virtually all our work is for ourselves or industrial clients, rather than broadcast.

So I'm on my way to Prestons this morning, intending to swap the Z1 for the HVX. I particularly want the Overcranking, and the HVX workflow, plus the quality of DVCPRO.

Andy

[Brendan Sundry]

Is archiving still an issue, or are today hdd's safe for most projects.

What i would do on a bigger job is buy 2 hdd's from 2 different manufacturers and then bubble wrap them and put them in a box.

I reckon the hvx is much nicer to shoot with ( from the 15 mintues i played with one ) but im still attached to magnetic tape.

Even david fincher backs up to DLO (?) tape on his viper shoots.

[Andy Nickless]

Now that I finally have the HVX200, I thought it might be worth recording my first impressions of the issues I listed above:

First issue is Barrel Distortion . . . Is it any better or worse than that of the Z1?

Well, I'm inclined to disagree with Barry here - the Barrel distortion on the HVX looks noticeably worse than the Z1's at full wide - but I get the impression the angle's wider on the HVX so it may not be a fair comment. I was disappointed to see Pincushion though - that shouldn't be noticeable in 16:9.

Second is Low Light & Noise . . . Better or worse than Z1?

As expected - it's quite a lot worse. I was expecting the sensitivity to be less than the Z1 but it was worse than I'd thought. Still, for all those who crave a shallow depth of field, this should be an advantage. Not for me though - I generally need all the DOF I can get shooting unpredictable action.

Third is Viewfinder and LCD - generally accepted as lower resolution than the Z1. Is this a big problem?

No problem - the Z1's just looks prettier.

What's the HVX200 like to (manually) focus quickly?

Too early to say for certain - but my first impression is that it's going to be far easier to manually focus than the Z1

Fourth is Loop Record? Is this facility (REALLY) available to me?

I can't quite believe it - but it WORKS!

In ALL Codecs?

All P2 codecs - Oh Joy!

Last - Downloading from P2s . . . is Firewire to Final Cut Pro practical?

Not just practical - it's an absolute DREAM (I have FCP 5.1.2).
You can even set the In and Out points before importing - and it's SO easy to set up!
Goodbye Tape, we've moved on!

For example, the Z1's Expanded Focus is a wonderful tool - but the button's really badly located (for my style of shooting).

The HVX's Focus Assist is MILES better than the Z1's - you can use it while shooting, for a start - and the button's in a far better position, near the Focus Ring!

General Impression:
So far, I'm delighted - the advantages, far outweigh the disadvantages - but I'd have paid an extra 1,000 GBP to get rid of the Barrel and Pincusion Distortion.

The workflow advantages are massive.
To be honest, although space on the P2s is restrictive, I believe it will actually improve the finished product. As a professional stills photographer, I know that one of the biggest advantages of using a tripod is that it makes you think more carefully about the shots you take - it REALLY does.

I wouldn't mind betting that the same thing will happen with 8GB P2s - we'll think more before we shoot - and of course, it's a doddle to delete unwanted clips too.

My biggest criticism so far, is the Menu Nav Buttons on the top of the camera - why can't the one which points to the front of the camera go UP the menu - and the rear facing arrow, go DOWN etc etc - seems logical to me. I'm sure I'll get used to it, but it doesn't seem to make sense to press a button on the right to go up, and a button at the back to go right!

Oh - and the Manual!
Why do I have to take a huge tome to bed with me, when I only read the English pages at the front? Sony give a seperate book for each language - far better idea.

Anyone have any comments on my first impressions?

Andy

[Mike Schrengohst]

Spot on mate!!
That sounds like a review from someone
with experience. The Firestore software
update coming out will hopefully
provide support for shooting in
Native modes. I heard that somewhere.....
I may look into one now.

[Mark Donnell]

After moving from the GL-2 to the DVX-100A to the HVX-200, and with six weeks experience on the HVX shooting mostly indoor sports events, my comments are : 1) relatively easy to manually focus on the fly during a shot even without the focus assistant, which is difficult to use in a rapidly moving shot, 2) focus assistant is wonderful when a stationary object is available for 3 seconds or more, 3) skin tones and overall appearance of DVCPRO HD 720 60p are stunning and makes DV look like a grainy noisy amateur mode, 4) working with mxf files is very different from tape-based systems, but I'm looking forward to learning these new techniques 5) making many short clips, then editing in the camera is very useful. I then download the edited P2 cards to my computer and can further edit by mixing clips onto new virtual P2 cards, all without using a NLE (although I'm planning to go with Edius Broadcast soon) 6) As for storage, the things I want to save are backed up on two or sometimes three different hard drives It is a new era in high-quality video !

[Phil Bloom]

i wish focus assist was available in SD mode. Focus is crucial there too!! I lot of what I shoot is SD still and of course I get more capacity on the p2 card that way.

I also agree the menu buttons are badly position. I keep pressing the wrong ones too!

[Andy Nickless]

Originally Posted by Phil Bloom

i wish focus assist was available in SD mode. Focus is crucial there too!! I lot of what I shoot is SD still and of course I get more capacity on the p2 card that way

I hadn't really thought of using the P2 card for SD . . .
I was planning to shoot in 720p, then dub that to tape - that way I'd get the Focus Assist and I'd have the tape as a backup. SD on P2 would be nice though. Now that I've used P2, I'm not so sure I want to go back to tape!

I also agree the menu buttons are badly position. I keep pressing the wrong ones too!

It's like learning to touch-type (again) I'm all thumbs!

Andy

[Jon Fairhurst]

I can understand why they kept the same button orientation as on the DVX - but they should really provide an option in the menus to rotate the dang thing 90 degrees! How hard would that be?

It would be the first operation I would perform on the next HVX I rent.

[Mark Donnell]

One more comment on the HVX - the LCD is useless for critical focus, but the viewfinder works well. For my money, they could leave the LCD off the camera and use their resources on an even larger EVF.

[Sam Jankis]

Originally Posted by Mark Donnell

One more comment on the HVX - the LCD is useless for critical focus, but the viewfinder works well. For my money, they could leave the LCD off the camera and use their resources on an even larger EVF.

I've always like the flip-up eyepiece on my XL2... though you need a monitor if it's on a tall tripod (fully extended) or even just a few feet away from you.