Zoom rocker sensitivity

Robert Lane · November 16th, 2006, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cees Mutsaers

Profressionals never use zoom in the final footage so it is a none issue

That's a bold and completely erroneous statement, Cees. I just watched a CSI episode tonight where zoom was used countless times not only for effect but to create tension or to create a central point of interest in a scene.

Zoom is used almost as much as shallow DOF to create a "look" by some of the most respected DP's the world over.

The key to using zoom has always been to have complete (and smooth) control over speed, initial movement and small speed variances (ramping), which has been the focal point of this thread.

The built-in servo zoom on the HVX has it's functionality, but it's far from being a smooth start or end movement and of course lacks the speed variances to create a seamless ramping movement.

Martin Iverson · November 17th, 2006, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benjamin Hill

(because a robotic hand would be a servo, har har).

Good to know Benjamin. Just making sure. You know with the way the price of technology goes down, we should be able be able to get a bionic arm for around 60 bucks.

If pros don't use a zoom I guess A. Hitchcock was a hack amateur.

Benjamin Hill · November 17th, 2006, 08:01 AM

You're absolutely right there Robert, I completely forgot about the whole "active camera" thing that has taken over. "The Shield" has zooming all over the place

Robert Lane · December 12th, 2006, 11:29 PM

I just noticed Varizoom has a new "throttle" style zoom controller for the HVX: VZ Stealth PZFI. They say it supposed to give full crawl speed control. I have not tried one yet but am very tempted.

My only hestitation is that when I talked with Varizoom previously as to why the ROCK PZFI controller didn't offer any better zoom speed control than the built-in camera rocker, they said it was because it was the way the servo control was designed in the camera and they couldn't override that. Maybe now they've found a way. (?)

I'll investigate further.

Benjamin Hill · December 13th, 2006, 12:27 AM

Curious to know what you find out there. Thanks for exploring the issue.

Martin Iverson · December 13th, 2006, 01:45 AM

That's interesting that you say that about the ROCK PZFI controller, because I just received mine last week and have done 2 shoots with it. I found that the controller had a smoother transition into the zoom than the on camera zoom. At first I thought it was just wishful thinking, but the more I worked with it the more I liked it. Maybe they made an "in production" improvement that they haven't told us about, or maybe it's all in my mind. Either way, I'm happy.

Or at least I think I am....

John Jencks · December 13th, 2006, 02:23 AM

I just ordered one, so when it arrives I will post some comments. Didn't realise that it would offer different sensitivity for zoom control, but that'd be an added bonus wouldn't it.

Robert Lane · December 13th, 2006, 11:37 AM

I talked with Varizoom this morning; what I was originally told stands true: None of their controllers can change the behavior of the internal servo motor itself. The HVX's inability to start a very slow crawl is a characterisitic of how the servo controller and motor were desgined and no external controller can override that behavior.

In essence any external controller is simply giving you an extension from built-in rockers on the camera body, it does not and cannot modify how they operate - at least for the Panny controllers.

LANC controllers are different: on cameras such as the XL series and some Sony's their controllers can and do give more precise and variable zoom speeds. Why that's not possible with the HVX/DVX is a question for Panny engineers and hopefully, a much needed upgrade in the "A" version of the HVX - if it is ever produced.

Benjamin Hill · December 13th, 2006, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Lane

LANC controllers are different: on cameras such as the XL series and some Sony's their controllers can and do give more precise and variable zoom speeds. Why that's not possible with the HVX/DVX is a question for Panny engineers and hopefully, a much needed upgrade in the "A" version of the HVX - if it is ever produced.

Indeed. Guess we'll see.

Diogo Athouguia · December 13th, 2006, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Lane

Why that's not possible with the HVX/DVX is a question for Panny engineers and hopefully, a much needed upgrade in the "A" version of the HVX - if it is ever produced.

In the A version of the DVX the problem remained, I don't think they will correct it on the HVX. I wonder why they made the zoom even slower than on the DVX.

Martin Iverson · December 13th, 2006, 07:21 PM

Is it possible that the difference I'm noticing has a mechanical componant? It sure feels as though less pressure is required with the external controller than with the on camera. I know that in shooting with firearms a lighter pressure trigger helps to increase accuracy by reducing muscle tension. Perhaps the lighter touch is enabling me to initiate the zoom with finer control?

Robert Lane · December 13th, 2006, 11:01 PM

Or course what you're suggesting is possible for your particular finger-feel. It may be that you personally get more "feedback" from the external controller than the built-in camera rocker. But the actual speeds that are available from the camera don't physically change; as you suggest you might just have a more natural interface with external controls.

November 17th, 2006, 08:01 AM	#33
Benjamin Hill Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Iowa City, Iowa Posts: 670	You're absolutely right there Robert, I completely forgot about the whole "active camera" thing that has taken over. "The Shield" has zooming all over the place __________________ youtube.com/benhillmedia linkedin.com/in/benhillmedia

December 12th, 2006, 11:29 PM	#34
Robert Lane Go Go Godzilla Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA Posts: 2,823 Images: 15	New Zoom Controller I just noticed Varizoom has a new "throttle" style zoom controller for the HVX: VZ Stealth PZFI. They say it supposed to give full crawl speed control. I have not tried one yet but am very tempted. My only hestitation is that when I talked with Varizoom previously as to why the ROCK PZFI controller didn't offer any better zoom speed control than the built-in camera rocker, they said it was because it was the way the servo control was designed in the camera and they couldn't override that. Maybe now they've found a way. (?) I'll investigate further.

December 13th, 2006, 12:27 AM	#35
Benjamin Hill Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Iowa City, Iowa Posts: 670	Curious to know what you find out there. Thanks for exploring the issue. __________________ youtube.com/benhillmedia linkedin.com/in/benhillmedia

December 13th, 2006, 02:23 AM	#37
John Jencks Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 43	I just ordered one, so when it arrives I will post some comments. Didn't realise that it would offer different sensitivity for zoom control, but that'd be an added bonus wouldn't it. __________________ If any one knows a good on-line ordering facility for dunces caps; I'll take 20.

December 13th, 2006, 01:45 AM	#36
Martin Iverson Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Anacortes, WA Posts: 78	That's interesting that you say that about the ROCK PZFI controller, because I just received mine last week and have done 2 shoots with it. I found that the controller had a smoother transition into the zoom than the on camera zoom. At first I thought it was just wishful thinking, but the more I worked with it the more I liked it. Maybe they made an "in production" improvement that they haven't told us about, or maybe it's all in my mind. Either way, I'm happy. Or at least I think I am....

December 13th, 2006, 11:37 AM	#38
Robert Lane Go Go Godzilla Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA Posts: 2,823 Images: 15	I talked with Varizoom this morning; what I was originally told stands true: None of their controllers can change the behavior of the internal servo motor itself. The HVX's inability to start a very slow crawl is a characterisitic of how the servo controller and motor were desgined and no external controller can override that behavior. In essence any external controller is simply giving you an extension from built-in rockers on the camera body, it does not and cannot modify how they operate - at least for the Panny controllers. LANC controllers are different: on cameras such as the XL series and some Sony's their controllers can and do give more precise and variable zoom speeds. Why that's not possible with the HVX/DVX is a question for Panny engineers and hopefully, a much needed upgrade in the "A" version of the HVX - if it is ever produced.

December 13th, 2006, 07:21 PM	#41
Martin Iverson Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Anacortes, WA Posts: 78	Is it possible that the difference I'm noticing has a mechanical componant? It sure feels as though less pressure is required with the external controller than with the on camera. I know that in shooting with firearms a lighter pressure trigger helps to increase accuracy by reducing muscle tension. Perhaps the lighter touch is enabling me to initiate the zoom with finer control?

December 13th, 2006, 11:01 PM	#42
Robert Lane Go Go Godzilla Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA Posts: 2,823 Images: 15	Or course what you're suggesting is possible for your particular finger-feel. It may be that you personally get more "feedback" from the external controller than the built-in camera rocker. But the actual speeds that are available from the camera don't physically change; as you suggest you might just have a more natural interface with external controls.