More HVX truth

Robert Lane · August 8th, 2006, 04:51 PM

Cees,

If you can't see the shirt buttons (that is a black-on-black area) then your monitor definitely needs calibrating. There isn't a ton of detail in that area since the lighting was concentrated for skin tones and showing the lenses on the table, the buttons are very noticeable.

Without knowing what kind of monitor you're using (CRT, LCD etc) pr which system PC or Mac, I can't give you any guidelines for proper balancing, but I'm sure one of the forum members can give you a quick guide for proper color/contrast balancing on any setup.

Mark Sasahara · August 8th, 2006, 08:44 PM

A beer garden? A garden full of beer? Sounds good. I'll send you an email. Busy this upcoming weekend, but I'll be in touch.

Scott Auerbach · August 9th, 2006, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Sasahara

Scott, greetings Brother. I'm an RIT grad too. PPHL (photoIllustration) Class of ' 85, when did you graduate?

Who said that, Les Stoebel, or Terry Bolman?

I started over at RIT in 76 after an abortive first year as an art student in St. Louis, took a year "off" '78-79 to finish my Gen'l Studies requirements after my AA (and do pottery...I needed a break from the intellectual remove of photography after doing it non-stop for 8 years), then finished up in '81.

Neither of the above, though I did have Les for M&P. It was one of my 2nd year teachers (whose name I've spaced out at the moment). I came through PPHL (that's what the degree is in) but majored in film and tripled up on Multi-Image (remember 16-projector slide shows?... shudder....). I'm also unusual in that I was able to arrange getting Brad Hindson as my primary faculty guy for Photo Ill, even though he was technically assigned to the Photo-Fine Art program (with Bea Nettles). Brad was the only one there who really specialized in visual-diary-with-Leica shooting (think: Horace Bristol, Mary Ellen Mark, Erwitt, Uzzle, Nick Nixon).

As for the Rochester suicidal winters....that's what Lexapro is for! It's also for those of us who sit in a dark edit suite day after day (and that's coming from personal experience!)

But I'm leading us off-topic... sorry 'bout that, folks!!!

Barlow Elton · August 9th, 2006, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Lane

While the H1 is obviously the resolution/color contrast king the reality of tyring to merge footage from any HDV camera into a project that is DVCPRO-HD based turns out to be much more complicated - and costly - than I had imagined.

Without getting into all the gory details, what it comes down to is this: The Canon is a 1080i camera; the HVX (as we shot it) is true 720p. Even with the KONA LHe there's no cost effective or workflow-logical method for merging the two formats without either serious image compromises or, a post-intensive 3-stage conversion workflow, neither of which makes any sense. (Thanks to the guys at AJA for pointing this out).

Robert,

I wonder what your workflow problem with the H1 is? Do you normally edit in a 720 60p timeline with 24p over 60 frames, or do you usually work in a 720 24 timeline? Have you tried taking raw .m2t's and converting through MPEG Streamclip to DVCPro HD? They can look good at both 1080 24/60i DV100 or even better as 720 24/60p.

It's easy to downres Canon 24F to 720 24 and with a Natress plug-in (Standards Converter/Map Frames) it's also pretty easy to convert 1080i to 60p. If you have a fast G5 the conversions can be very fast.

You could always get a little mini-Teranex for instant standards conversion via SDI but the MPEG Streamclip program produces amazing results for free.

Robert Lane · August 9th, 2006, 12:09 PM

Barlow,

What it amounts to is that trying to merge H1 footage with HVX means more work, no matter how you look at it. So, rather than make more work for myself on this big project I'm just going to stick with what I started with - the HVX. Trust me, I'm not lamenting not getting the H1; it was supposed to be a stop-gap for certain types of work but I'm much better off (and more comfortable) staying with true 24p and 4:2:2.

I've already put my pre-order in for the HPC2000, so between that and the HVX I'll be 100% covered for everything I shoot - with exception to those jobs that are best suited for film.

The 2 Pannys along with the new Mac Pro is just ordered (KONA drivers to be available late this month) I'll be in HD heaven - for a while at least. (^_^)

Barlow Elton · August 9th, 2006, 04:24 PM

Understandable. Good for you and good luck with your project. :)

Robert Lane · August 9th, 2006, 06:40 PM

I just realized today that my previous landscape tests were bungled - I completely forgot to adjust certain settings which would have drastically altered my results - and even made the studio work even better. Crap! Oh well, this entire process has been one massive learning curve.

So, along with the 2 new tests I mentioned in the newer thread, I'll also be posting results from this new round of landscape tests with updated camera settings.

Weather permitting I'll be shooting first light tomorrow and posting later the same day or Friday.

Bill Edmunds · August 9th, 2006, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Lane

I just realized today that my previous landscape tests were bungled - I completely forgot to adjust certain settings which would have drastically altered my results - and even made the studio work even better. Crap! Oh well, this entire process has been one massive learning curve.

Wow! I gotta ask -- what settings are you talking about? I was perhaps going to buy the HVX200 Thursday, but maybe I should wait to hear what you have to say!

Bill Edmunds · August 9th, 2006, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Boston

Adam, Barry, and a few other folks held a camera comparison in California before the Texas shootout occurred.

Is there a website devoted to the California shootout/comparison?

Robert Lane · August 9th, 2006, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Edmunds

Wow! I gotta ask -- what settings are you talking about? I was perhaps going to buy the HVX200 Thursday, but maybe I should wait to hear what you have to say!

Well, I can honestly say that you SHOULD get an HVX, period. Unless you need the more cumbersome and tape-based HDV workflow then the "other" HD cams will do just fine. :-D

But seriously, I went over my result notes and realized that I completely forgot to adjust some pretty important settings such as KNEE, PEDESTAL, CHROMA and RGB balance.

My initial testing plan did cover those setting adjustments however, I became distracted by some strange ND and CIR POL results I was getting and completely glossed over those extra settings. Can you say, "brain fart"? I need an assistant! (laughs)

Chris Hurd · August 9th, 2006, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Edmunds

Is there a website devoted to the California shootout/comparison?

Adam Wilt's write-up is on DV.com. Register for free to read the article.

California shootout: http://www.dv.com/features/features_...leId=177103305

Phillip Palacios · August 10th, 2006, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Lane

Well, I can honestly say that you SHOULD get an HVX, period. Unless you need the more cumbersome and tape-based HDV workflow then the "other" HD cams will do just fine. :-D

But seriously, I went over my result notes and realized that I completely forgot to adjust some pretty important settings such as KNEE, PEDESTAL, CHROMA and RGB balance.

My initial testing plan did cover those setting adjustments however, I became distracted by some strange ND and CIR POL results I was getting and completely glossed over those extra settings. Can you say, "brain fart"? I need an assistant! (laughs)

It's good to hear that! I have been planning a lot of hardware around this camera, and I didn't want to have to re-evaluate everything, I was actually thinking about the H1 beast.

-and yes assistants are great-

Jeff Kilgroe · August 10th, 2006, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Lane

My initial testing plan did cover those setting adjustments however, I became distracted by some strange ND and CIR POL results I was getting and completely glossed over those extra settings. Can you say, "brain fart"? I need an assistant! (laughs)

Well that's good to know... As I started reading through this thread, I was trying to figure out just what you were going on about. :-) I've used the XLH1 on a few occasions and I would never choose it over the HVX for anything... Not even for its interchangeable lenses. While this can be an advantage along with its added resolution (that's a whole other debate), if I need the lens options for a project, I'll go rent a camera and other gear that I need (Varicam / CineAlta). The HVX with its frame rates, 4:2:2 and true progressive CCDs has so many advantages that my not immediately present themselves. And as you pointed out -- the color reproduction on this camera - wow. Still blows me away that I can get this level of color out of a handheld < $10K camera.

As for me, it's starting to look like my next camera purchase will be either the new Silicon Image camera or RED. And between one of those and the HVX, I should be set.

Cees Mutsaers · August 10th, 2006, 01:38 PM

I can say the same : whithout mentioning all the settings you used on the HVX when you shot landscape scenery forum members can not give you a quick guide for proper handeling the HVX.

edit : I just saw your last threads where you admitted it was just poor handeling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Lane

Cees,

If you can't see the shirt buttons (that is a black-on-black area) then your monitor definitely needs calibrating. There isn't a ton of detail in that area since the lighting was concentrated for skin tones and showing the lenses on the table, the buttons are very noticeable.

Without knowing what kind of monitor you're using (CRT, LCD etc) pr which system PC or Mac, I can't give you any guidelines for proper balancing, but I'm sure one of the forum members can give you a quick guide for proper color/contrast balancing on any setup.

Mike Schrengohst · August 10th, 2006, 04:18 PM

Wow, the power of words. If any of you are in doubt about the HVX....

http://www.motionzonehd.com/files/fo...d/VIDEO_TS.zip

This is a demo that I did for my site and Panasonic is also using it.
Regional sales reps have a disc that contains the CONTENTS folder that they can copy to a P2 card. It's the same demo as the DVD. The VIDEO_TS folder can be un-zipped and burned to a DVD. It is SD but gives a good indication of what you might expect shooting HD then producing SD DVD. The footage is a mix of 720 24p, 720 30p and 1080 24p.

August 8th, 2006, 08:44 PM	#62
Mark Sasahara Major Player Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: NYC Posts: 649	A beer garden? A garden full of beer? Sounds good. I'll send you an email. Busy this upcoming weekend, but I'll be in touch. __________________ Mark Sasahara Director of Photography

August 9th, 2006, 06:40 PM	#67
Robert Lane Go Go Godzilla Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA Posts: 2,825 Images: 15	Color Update I just realized today that my previous landscape tests were bungled - I completely forgot to adjust certain settings which would have drastically altered my results - and even made the studio work even better. Crap! Oh well, this entire process has been one massive learning curve. So, along with the 2 new tests I mentioned in the newer thread, I'll also be posting results from this new round of landscape tests with updated camera settings. Weather permitting I'll be shooting first light tomorrow and posting later the same day or Friday.

August 10th, 2006, 04:18 PM	#75
Mike Schrengohst Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 355	Wow, the power of words. If any of you are in doubt about the HVX.... http://www.motionzonehd.com/files/fo...d/VIDEO_TS.zip This is a demo that I did for my site and Panasonic is also using it. Regional sales reps have a disc that contains the CONTENTS folder that they can copy to a P2 card. It's the same demo as the DVD. The VIDEO_TS folder can be un-zipped and burned to a DVD. It is SD but gives a good indication of what you might expect shooting HD then producing SD DVD. The footage is a mix of 720 24p, 720 30p and 1080 24p. __________________ Mike Schrengohst dvd.pro@verizon.net

August 8th, 2006, 04:51 PM	#61
Robert Lane Go Go Godzilla Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA Posts: 2,825 Images: 15	Cees, If you can't see the shirt buttons (that is a black-on-black area) then your monitor definitely needs calibrating. There isn't a ton of detail in that area since the lighting was concentrated for skin tones and showing the lenses on the table, the buttons are very noticeable. Without knowing what kind of monitor you're using (CRT, LCD etc) pr which system PC or Mac, I can't give you any guidelines for proper balancing, but I'm sure one of the forum members can give you a quick guide for proper color/contrast balancing on any setup.

August 9th, 2006, 12:09 PM	#65
Robert Lane Go Go Godzilla Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA Posts: 2,825 Images: 15	Barlow, What it amounts to is that trying to merge H1 footage with HVX means more work, no matter how you look at it. So, rather than make more work for myself on this big project I'm just going to stick with what I started with - the HVX. Trust me, I'm not lamenting not getting the H1; it was supposed to be a stop-gap for certain types of work but I'm much better off (and more comfortable) staying with true 24p and 4:2:2. I've already put my pre-order in for the HPC2000, so between that and the HVX I'll be 100% covered for everything I shoot - with exception to those jobs that are best suited for film. The 2 Pannys along with the new Mac Pro is just ordered (KONA drivers to be available late this month) I'll be in HD heaven - for a while at least. (^_^)

August 9th, 2006, 04:24 PM	#66
Barlow Elton Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UT Posts: 945	Understandable. Good for you and good luck with your project. :)