I think my HVX200 is broken at DVinfo.net

Kaku Ito · April 20th, 2006, 09:36 AM

So I handed it to my dealer, Provideo Station Shinjuku. Mr. Masuda said this is the first one he heard that is broken, so he took it our of my office and see if it is really broken. I was having problems with P2 card not recognizing, trying to save files from the card to iPod 60GB then it gives up in the middle.
Mr. Masuda also mentioned that some people reported that the zoom ring being not smooth a bit, but I never had the problem.
I will keep you posted but I did lost a couple of shooting opportunities because the card was working awkwardly and not being able to make backups on iPod 60.

So, I am considering to maybe switch to GL3 if it really comes out.

Shane Ross · April 20th, 2006, 12:28 PM

You are seriously considering switching cameras because yours may be broken? That is a pretty poor attitude to take.

Things can be fixed.

Phil Hover · April 20th, 2006, 12:36 PM

Can you say warranty? 1yr from panasonic.

Cassidy Bisher · April 20th, 2006, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane Ross

You are seriously considering switching cameras because yours may be broken? That is a pretty poor attitude to take.

Things can be fixed.

I would probably just get a new one with the 1 year warranty.. things happen, nothings perfect... although until i received my new one I would be in misery. Sleepless nights.. no 60p... OH THE HUMANITY OF IT ALL!

Marty Hudzik · April 20th, 2006, 01:06 PM

This does seem kinda drastic.

Is it one particular card that is giving you problems? Or does the problem follow the slot? Can you try a different Ipod? A different cable?

I ask because I use a USB2 OTG drive to offload my P2 cards and it worked flawlessly for about the first 20-30 times. Then all of a sudden it would locke up partway into a transfer. I tried it 20-30 times and it would never finish. Finally I had to copy it via PCMCIA slot on laptop. I formatted the P2 card and it has workd ever since.

Still don't know what caused it. Could be a currupt bit or byte in one of the files on the P2 card or something. everyone rants and rave over the P2 workflow being better than tape. And generally I agree. But one bad bit can corrupt an entire mxf files or avi file in the old days. Generally speaking if I had a bad spot on a tape I still could read the other 59:59 of the tape fine. However I have had 1 hour long avi files that were fine one day become corrupt and unreadable the next for no apparent reason. scary.

Anyway I am just rambling at this point. But I cannot believe you would contemplate getting rid of the HVX over this one issue. If it keeps happening...well....

April 20th, 2006, 01:30 PM

I think it's a little drastic too, but then again I'm a little biased as the owner of the HVX.

HOWEVER, Kaku, I actually hope that you get a GL3 (or something else new), as you were one of the reasons I bought my HVX. You've owned the camera, put it through its paces, tested it real world style and most importantly (to me at least) YOU SHARED YOUR EXPERIENCES WITH US ALL at a time none of us had one to try for ourselves. So seeing your opinion on another camera would really interest me as well.

If I like the footage you and others come up with and Canon can come up with a good HD solution that works well for me from shooting to distributing (plus about a dozen other reasons that I chose the HVX over any other current offering) than the HVX does, you'll see my HVX in the Classifieds that day.

I just hope you stick around here and best luck to you either way. I hate that your camera is not working and that you are having to do without it right now.

Kaku Ito · April 20th, 2006, 02:41 PM

Just think of missing opportunities for shooting some events that never happen again. But not only missiing opportunities, when I was watching the clips that I shot with preproduction XLH1, they look so much nicer under the similar situation and similar actions. Some of the imperfections that XLH1 and other cams like FX1 and HC1 display were awfull especially for mountainbike riding in the mountains, but HFX also showed other problems similar to DV on spinning wheels that my friends here told me that is the 1/3 CCD issues. So, now I know from my experiences to shoot what I shoot, I just have to learn more from film camera shooters and keep the camera action moderate. From what I shot with FX1, HC1, XLH1(beta) and HVX200, footage of XLH1 look the best. Especially the night shots. But I can't go with XLH1 because it is too large for me. I was talking to a Canon dealer person and talked about GL2, HDV version and thought how wonderful GL3 would be with CMOS that allows you continous shooting from dark to bright. Although I will have problems with 24p footage editing with FCP for now, I would live with shooting nice 60i footage that work with FCP now.

Thanks Derek for covering my premature post with your intelligent guess.

Robert Lane · April 20th, 2006, 11:00 PM

Hi Kaku,

I'm one of the people who you helped convince that the HVX was THE way to go. After doing months of my own testing with all the other sub-$10k bodies the HVX still came out on top. So it was disappointing to see you considering dropping the HVX for something else - possibly.

Obviously there's no perfect single camera for all applications or shooting styles but until another camera comes out with a true tapless workflow like the HVX I think you'd be missing out on a near-perfect camera.

One thing is certain: With all the technology options available today I'm sure there's a perfect fit for your shooting needs, even if it isn't the HVX.

Kaku Ito · April 24th, 2006, 08:17 AM

Robert,

My needs are peculiar, so people don’t have to worry about it. By the way, my cam is not back from the shop. It’s been a week. It’s lucky that I don’t have any time to do shooting at this moment, but if I did have time, oh well.
After shooting with all HDV cameras and DVCPRO HD, the picture quality wise, I liked the XL-H1 the best. It is too bad that it is too large for me to carry in to mountains with my mountainbike.
HVX200 is certainly a fun camera to use. Don’t get me wrong. But it was disappointing in the dark.

HVX200 would be great, if P2 cards are a lot cheaper (that means HVX200 itself is good). I find it impossible to buy more cards within my budget.

Marty Hudzik · April 24th, 2006, 08:38 AM

Kaku,
As someone else who is finding the "in the dark" performance of the HVX a bit disappointing, can you give any of your thoughts about the XL-H1 in similar circumstances? In other word what did you like about it in those situations that the HVX was not so good at.

Thanks.

Kaku Ito · April 25th, 2006, 09:36 AM

Marty,
After hearing about new JVC cameras, I'm convinced to sell HVX200 for now. I tried HD100 for a week and really enjoyed the control of the zoom, focus and the iris, and the outcome of the video. If I were shooting for film style then HD100 was a nice choice, but I need the ability to shoot in shooting 60p because typical action I shoot happens within a second, but the HD200 and HD250 look like they can do 60p, so it is very tempting. I probably don’t mind the size of HD200 since it is a shoulder style camera, comparing to H1 being not quite that but it is large. HD100 looked like can be carried smaller when you take the lens off, so maybe HD200 might be something to dedicate all my work on.
Now for the HVX/H1 talk, under similar circumstances, H1 does not have to be cranked up with the gain, like my night highway video, watch the reflection on the bay, details on the cars on the highway. Also the panorama pan in makuhari footage, H1 is so beautiful. With HVX, I could not get even close to that, so I was too embraced to post it.
HVX is probably great for a lot of you and I have to mention again, my needs are really peculiar. One thing tho, I was so impressed with the DV quality of HVX for sure.

Craig Seeman · April 25th, 2006, 10:02 AM

Kaku, important thing you don't mention is the codec HDV (long GOP MPEG2) vs DVCProHD.

Can HDV codec handle fast action without significant softening and artifacts. You might be able to slow motion the HDV 60p but what will the detail in the frames look like?

What about Panasonic's announced inclusion of H.264 codec (likely all I frame rather than GOP)? That could allow for record efficiency and storage lengths closer to HDV but with better motion less artifacts than MPEG2 encode.

I can't help but think by next year (NAB 2007) Sony and JVC will be coming out with 1/3" 3 chip tapeless cameras and Panasonic's use of H.264 will make record/archive a bit easier.

Any Camera one buys this year has to have a relatively quick ROI (Return On Investment). I've never seen formats change so fast in my life. Long gone are the days a pro could should BetaSP for years and the "semi pros" were using 8mm/Hi8 also for years. DV has been around for a while now but I think the whirlwind is just beginning.

It may be too early to tell where Panasonic will go with HVX200 but if it were just a firmware upgrade to get H.264 on P2 the HVX might have a longer life than JVC 200/250 (then again might not . . . It's about a $10,000 risk either way hence the short ROI desired).

Looking forward to your posting of your JVC 60p fast mountain bike video slowed down to compare with Panasonic of same shoot.

Marty Hudzik · April 25th, 2006, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaku Ito

Marty,
After hearing about new JVC cameras, I'm convinced to sell HVX200 for now. I tried HD100 for a week and really enjoyed the control of the zoom, focus and the iris, and the outcome of the video. If I were shooting for film style then HD100 was a nice choice, but I need the ability to shoot in shooting 60p because typical action I shoot happens within a second, but the HD200 and HD250 look like they can do 60p, so it is very tempting. I probably don’t mind the size of HD200 since it is a shoulder style camera, comparing to H1 being not quite that but it is large. HD100 looked like can be carried smaller when you take the lens off, so maybe HD200 might be something to dedicate all my work on.
Now for the HVX/H1 talk, under similar circumstances, H1 does not have to be cranked up with the gain, like my night highway video, watch the reflection on the bay, details on the cars on the highway. Also the panorama pan in makuhari footage, H1 is so beautiful. With HVX, I could not get even close to that, so I was too embraced to post it.
HVX is probably great for a lot of you and I have to mention again, my needs are really peculiar. One thing tho, I was so impressed with the DV quality of HVX for sure.

Thanks for that reply. I love my HVX for the most part but find it troubling how quickly I get into trouble with lighting. I do shoot narrative scripted but I also do event/candid stuff to supplement income so I kind of have a need for a little of everything. The P2 workflow has been a bit of a drag and hard to get used to....and that is only heightened by the fact that a lot of the footage I have shot in what I consider "good" lighting has noise in it. I had a shoot the other day in the local park.....creating a montage for a commercial to be aired to promote sports in children. I was shooting some boys playing baseball in broad daylight. Most of the footage looked great.....really clean and really high res. But the red helmets had dancing noise in them and a few of the darker trees in the background were noisy. It didn't ruin the shot completely but I felt drawn to these areas as they were so obviously different looking than the rest of the frame. And needless to say this issue only gets more dramtic when you shoot in less light. This was broad daylight after all....not really creative lighting but strong lighting.

I still love the camera but just cannot figure out how I can work around this all the time. Maybe I am just expecting too much nowadays. But in fairness similiar shots with my XL2 and DVX100 weren't as noisy in the shadows. I didn't really anticipate taking a step backwards in this area.

Peace.

Ram Ganesh · April 25th, 2006, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaku Ito

With HVX, I could not get even close to that, so I was too embraced to post it.

wow... coming from you this post is really startling... I have preordered HVX hearing all the hype for the last 12months... for the last 2 weeks many senior users have posted their noise troubles with HVX...

so why did they actually go with a smaller chip? to improve low light right? then why doesnt it shine in low light?

Kaku Ito · April 26th, 2006, 06:02 PM

Marty,

P2 workflow is okay with me as long as it works. My case, it stopped working because of the problem with the card or the slot, thus offloading the clips from the card to the iPod or computers became problematic, too.

Your low light experience is similar to mine.

Ram,

These details came after people had more opportunity to use the cams in different situations and had chances to compare to the other cams. I guess that won't arise instantly.

April 20th, 2006, 09:36 AM	#1
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	I think my HVX200 is broken So I handed it to my dealer, Provideo Station Shinjuku. Mr. Masuda said this is the first one he heard that is broken, so he took it our of my office and see if it is really broken. I was having problems with P2 card not recognizing, trying to save files from the card to iPod 60GB then it gives up in the middle. Mr. Masuda also mentioned that some people reported that the zoom ring being not smooth a bit, but I never had the problem. I will keep you posted but I did lost a couple of shooting opportunities because the card was working awkwardly and not being able to make backups on iPod 60. So, I am considering to maybe switch to GL3 if it really comes out.

April 20th, 2006, 01:30 PM	#6
Guest Posts: n/a	I think it's a little drastic too, but then again I'm a little biased as the owner of the HVX. HOWEVER, Kaku, I actually hope that you get a GL3 (or something else new), as you were one of the reasons I bought my HVX. You've owned the camera, put it through its paces, tested it real world style and most importantly (to me at least) YOU SHARED YOUR EXPERIENCES WITH US ALL at a time none of us had one to try for ourselves. So seeing your opinion on another camera would really interest me as well. If I like the footage you and others come up with and Canon can come up with a good HD solution that works well for me from shooting to distributing (plus about a dozen other reasons that I chose the HVX over any other current offering) than the HVX does, you'll see my HVX in the Classifieds that day. I just hope you stick around here and best luck to you either way. I hate that your camera is not working and that you are having to do without it right now. Last edited by Guest; April 20th, 2006 at 03:34 PM.

April 20th, 2006, 11:00 PM	#8
Robert Lane Go Go Godzilla Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA Posts: 2,819 Images: 15	Use what works Hi Kaku, I'm one of the people who you helped convince that the HVX was THE way to go. After doing months of my own testing with all the other sub-$10k bodies the HVX still came out on top. So it was disappointing to see you considering dropping the HVX for something else - possibly. Obviously there's no perfect single camera for all applications or shooting styles but until another camera comes out with a true tapless workflow like the HVX I think you'd be missing out on a near-perfect camera. One thing is certain: With all the technology options available today I'm sure there's a perfect fit for your shooting needs, even if it isn't the HVX.

April 20th, 2006, 12:28 PM	#2
Shane Ross Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 539	You are seriously considering switching cameras because yours may be broken? That is a pretty poor attitude to take. Things can be fixed.

April 20th, 2006, 12:36 PM	#3
Phil Hover Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Costa Mesa, The OC, CA Posts: 87	Can you say warranty? 1yr from panasonic.

April 20th, 2006, 01:06 PM	#5
Marty Hudzik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 1,771	This does seem kinda drastic. Is it one particular card that is giving you problems? Or does the problem follow the slot? Can you try a different Ipod? A different cable? I ask because I use a USB2 OTG drive to offload my P2 cards and it worked flawlessly for about the first 20-30 times. Then all of a sudden it would locke up partway into a transfer. I tried it 20-30 times and it would never finish. Finally I had to copy it via PCMCIA slot on laptop. I formatted the P2 card and it has workd ever since. Still don't know what caused it. Could be a currupt bit or byte in one of the files on the P2 card or something. everyone rants and rave over the P2 workflow being better than tape. And generally I agree. But one bad bit can corrupt an entire mxf files or avi file in the old days. Generally speaking if I had a bad spot on a tape I still could read the other 59:59 of the tape fine. However I have had 1 hour long avi files that were fine one day become corrupt and unreadable the next for no apparent reason. scary. Anyway I am just rambling at this point. But I cannot believe you would contemplate getting rid of the HVX over this one issue. If it keeps happening...well....

April 20th, 2006, 02:41 PM	#7
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	Just think of missing opportunities for shooting some events that never happen again. But not only missiing opportunities, when I was watching the clips that I shot with preproduction XLH1, they look so much nicer under the similar situation and similar actions. Some of the imperfections that XLH1 and other cams like FX1 and HC1 display were awfull especially for mountainbike riding in the mountains, but HFX also showed other problems similar to DV on spinning wheels that my friends here told me that is the 1/3 CCD issues. So, now I know from my experiences to shoot what I shoot, I just have to learn more from film camera shooters and keep the camera action moderate. From what I shot with FX1, HC1, XLH1(beta) and HVX200, footage of XLH1 look the best. Especially the night shots. But I can't go with XLH1 because it is too large for me. I was talking to a Canon dealer person and talked about GL2, HDV version and thought how wonderful GL3 would be with CMOS that allows you continous shooting from dark to bright. Although I will have problems with 24p footage editing with FCP for now, I would live with shooting nice 60i footage that work with FCP now. Thanks Derek for covering my premature post with your intelligent guess.

April 24th, 2006, 08:17 AM	#9
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	Robert, My needs are peculiar, so people don’t have to worry about it. By the way, my cam is not back from the shop. It’s been a week. It’s lucky that I don’t have any time to do shooting at this moment, but if I did have time, oh well. After shooting with all HDV cameras and DVCPRO HD, the picture quality wise, I liked the XL-H1 the best. It is too bad that it is too large for me to carry in to mountains with my mountainbike. HVX200 is certainly a fun camera to use. Don’t get me wrong. But it was disappointing in the dark. HVX200 would be great, if P2 cards are a lot cheaper (that means HVX200 itself is good). I find it impossible to buy more cards within my budget.

April 24th, 2006, 08:38 AM	#10
Marty Hudzik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 1,771	Kaku, As someone else who is finding the "in the dark" performance of the HVX a bit disappointing, can you give any of your thoughts about the XL-H1 in similar circumstances? In other word what did you like about it in those situations that the HVX was not so good at. Thanks.

April 25th, 2006, 09:36 AM	#11
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	Marty, After hearing about new JVC cameras, I'm convinced to sell HVX200 for now. I tried HD100 for a week and really enjoyed the control of the zoom, focus and the iris, and the outcome of the video. If I were shooting for film style then HD100 was a nice choice, but I need the ability to shoot in shooting 60p because typical action I shoot happens within a second, but the HD200 and HD250 look like they can do 60p, so it is very tempting. I probably don’t mind the size of HD200 since it is a shoulder style camera, comparing to H1 being not quite that but it is large. HD100 looked like can be carried smaller when you take the lens off, so maybe HD200 might be something to dedicate all my work on. Now for the HVX/H1 talk, under similar circumstances, H1 does not have to be cranked up with the gain, like my night highway video, watch the reflection on the bay, details on the cars on the highway. Also the panorama pan in makuhari footage, H1 is so beautiful. With HVX, I could not get even close to that, so I was too embraced to post it. HVX is probably great for a lot of you and I have to mention again, my needs are really peculiar. One thing tho, I was so impressed with the DV quality of HVX for sure.

April 25th, 2006, 10:02 AM	#12
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Kaku, important thing you don't mention is the codec HDV (long GOP MPEG2) vs DVCProHD. Can HDV codec handle fast action without significant softening and artifacts. You might be able to slow motion the HDV 60p but what will the detail in the frames look like? What about Panasonic's announced inclusion of H.264 codec (likely all I frame rather than GOP)? That could allow for record efficiency and storage lengths closer to HDV but with better motion less artifacts than MPEG2 encode. I can't help but think by next year (NAB 2007) Sony and JVC will be coming out with 1/3" 3 chip tapeless cameras and Panasonic's use of H.264 will make record/archive a bit easier. Any Camera one buys this year has to have a relatively quick ROI (Return On Investment). I've never seen formats change so fast in my life. Long gone are the days a pro could should BetaSP for years and the "semi pros" were using 8mm/Hi8 also for years. DV has been around for a while now but I think the whirlwind is just beginning. It may be too early to tell where Panasonic will go with HVX200 but if it were just a firmware upgrade to get H.264 on P2 the HVX might have a longer life than JVC 200/250 (then again might not . . . It's about a $10,000 risk either way hence the short ROI desired). Looking forward to your posting of your JVC 60p fast mountain bike video slowed down to compare with Panasonic of same shoot.

April 26th, 2006, 06:02 PM	#15
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	Marty, P2 workflow is okay with me as long as it works. My case, it stopped working because of the problem with the card or the slot, thus offloading the clips from the card to the iPod or computers became problematic, too. Your low light experience is similar to mine. Ram, These details came after people had more opportunity to use the cams in different situations and had chances to compare to the other cams. I guess that won't arise instantly.