480i DVCPRO mode... at DVinfo.net

Michael Paul Young · March 9th, 2006, 04:34 PM

Has anyone been using this mode? Like with the DVCPRO and P2 cards? I just shot some tests and its interlaced mania and nasty..no idea why. Im shooting in 24p mode, but the pans and movement are interlaced. Do I have something set wrong, misunderstanding something? Read manual and got nowhere, anyone have any experience, clues?

Peter Jefferson · March 9th, 2006, 08:32 PM

have u ever shot in progressive scan before???

best thing to do is do a search on progressive shooting and this should answer any concerns u have with 24p

Michael Paul Young · March 9th, 2006, 10:25 PM

yes, I shot with the XL2 in the same mode many of times, but in Dv compression. Never did I have such a result as Im having now..and that was on even more of a compression.

Steev Dinkins · March 9th, 2006, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Paul Young

Has anyone been using this mode? Like with the DVCPRO and P2 cards? I just shot some tests and its interlaced mania and nasty..no idea why. Im shooting in 24p mode, but the pans and movement are interlaced. Do I have something set wrong, misunderstanding something? Read manual and got nowhere, anyone have any experience, clues?

You're making it difficult for anyone to troubleshoot for you, since you dont' mention what editing system you're using, what the settings are on the editing system, what you're viewing the footage on, etc. Also when you say DVCPRO are you talking DV50 or DV25.

Bottom line is if you have it set up correctly, you won't see interlaced artifacts on 24p or 30p footage, even across 480i.

Michael Paul Young · March 10th, 2006, 09:22 AM

Im just brining the photage in via P2, import straight into Final cut. Even just playing that imported stuff back, not ina sequence, its interlaced and such. To be a bit more in detail...Put the P2 card into the powerbook, open Final Cut, file import, from P2. Then when I open it in the library, and play back, its interlaced and such.

Michael Paul Young · March 10th, 2006, 09:47 AM

I just did another test...when I shoot 30p, no interlacing issues...But when I shoot 24p I get the interlacing....

Steev Dinkins · March 10th, 2006, 10:29 AM

Haha. I forget what a can of worms this is. Are you shooting 24p, or 24p advanced? If you're shooting 24pA, you should remove pulldown and end up with "true" 24fps, with no interlaced artifacts. If you are just looking at 24p non-advanced or 24pA without pulldown, you'll see interlaced artifacts. Personally I never would never shoot 24p without advanced, since you can always add the pulldown after the fact in a 29.97 timeline, but if you shoot 24p non-advanced, and you end up wanting true 24fps, you're hosed.

If you need further explanation...

http://www.adamwilt.com/24p/#24pRecording

If anyone else has the energy to explain further, chime in. These issues and workflows have been brought up and hashed out years ago with the DVX100.

Michael Paul Young · March 10th, 2006, 10:43 AM

Ok i wll test this out and check that site. Whats wierd though is I have been workin in 720p mode and doing 24pn on that with none of these issues. Its only happening in 480i mode...I have tryed both 24p and 24pa, both are giving me interlacing..Thanks for the help so far..It just seems odd this is only happening in this 480i mode.

Heres is a example: http://www.designgraphik.com/x/interlace.pdf

Just doing a test in the studio, you can see the interlacing. Im just doing a P2 import in Final Cut. Im not sure if its final cut jacking this up or what. Also one thing im noticing, when shooting in 480i, is that the viewfinder acts like its shrinking the image. Edges look fuzzy, etc. But when you bump up to 720p mode, everythings nice again.

Michael Paul Young · March 10th, 2006, 03:00 PM

Well the issue is this, it seems for some reason, just these modes 480i/24p, 480i/24pa, using any of the available encoders, Final Cut brings it in wrong. Its bringing them at 29.97 with lower field interlace for some reason. So then I do remove advanced pulldown, which gets me my 24p, but then its still interlaced in its properties. All im doing is selecting the clips via the P2 import screen. If anyone has experienced this problem as well, feel free to shine some light.

Jared Heck · March 10th, 2006, 03:18 PM

The issue is that in 720p the camera will record 24fps natively to the p2 card. If you wish to record 24p in 480i or 1080i the camera always records a full 29.97fps interlaced stream and the pull down has to be removed in post.

Michael Paul Young · March 10th, 2006, 03:32 PM

So no matter what your gonna get interlacing? Becuase I removed the pull down, got it to 24p, discovered in Final Cut how to change fields to "none". But the result is still interlaced movement...I used an xl2 before this camera, and the same exact same mode did not give me these results. Bit on top of it all, its really odd to me, that if I bump to 30p, this does not happen.

Leonard Levy · March 10th, 2006, 03:37 PM

What do you mean by interlaced mania?
Is there any possibility you have the fields reversed?

Michael Paul Young · March 10th, 2006, 03:53 PM

See my pdf link above? Thats how it looks in Final Cut, interlaced lines, progressive frame rate should not have this. Final cut or this camera is flaking out on any of the 24p modes when in 480i. If i shoot 480i 30p, there is no interlacing. Its not making any sense...

Leonard Levy · March 10th, 2006, 05:07 PM

I don't understand why you are having a problem unless you are doing something unusual with the footage.
24P at 480i is built into a 60i interlaced signal, so the timeline you are using in fina lcut pro should just be a normal interlaced timeline - plain garden variety video.
What are your timeline settings and what are your settings for field dominance. I don't think you should check "none" on fields and you shouldn't be merssing around with removing pulldowns.
Plain old video timeline.

Michael Paul Young · March 10th, 2006, 05:22 PM

Wells, its not even a timeline playback issue. Its just previewing the file right after import via P2 Import in FC. I understand the basic setups of timeline and fields.

How is it though, ill shot same exact thing in 480i / 30p, and theres no interlacing and final cut reads it right off the P2 card just fine. But when I shoot 480i/24p, the photage has fields and is interlaced? im sorry, that just doesnt make any sense to me. This camera should not be shooting interlaced clips when in progressive frame rate mode. Like I mentioned before, 30p doesnt have fields, why does this 24p/pa have it? Is anyone else using this format, and is it interlaced on import?

March 9th, 2006, 04:34 PM	#1
Michael Paul Young Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Baltimore, MD, USA Posts: 28	480i DVCPRO mode... Has anyone been using this mode? Like with the DVCPRO and P2 cards? I just shot some tests and its interlaced mania and nasty..no idea why. Im shooting in 24p mode, but the pans and movement are interlaced. Do I have something set wrong, misunderstanding something? Read manual and got nowhere, anyone have any experience, clues?

March 10th, 2006, 10:29 AM	#7
Steev Dinkins Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 613	Haha. I forget what a can of worms this is. Are you shooting 24p, or 24p advanced? If you're shooting 24pA, you should remove pulldown and end up with "true" 24fps, with no interlaced artifacts. If you are just looking at 24p non-advanced or 24pA without pulldown, you'll see interlaced artifacts. Personally I never would never shoot 24p without advanced, since you can always add the pulldown after the fact in a 29.97 timeline, but if you shoot 24p non-advanced, and you end up wanting true 24fps, you're hosed. If you need further explanation... http://www.adamwilt.com/24p/#24pRecording If anyone else has the energy to explain further, chime in. These issues and workflows have been brought up and hashed out years ago with the DVX100. __________________ www.holyzoo.com

March 10th, 2006, 10:43 AM	#8
Michael Paul Young Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Baltimore, MD, USA Posts: 28	Ok i wll test this out and check that site. Whats wierd though is I have been workin in 720p mode and doing 24pn on that with none of these issues. Its only happening in 480i mode...I have tryed both 24p and 24pa, both are giving me interlacing..Thanks for the help so far..It just seems odd this is only happening in this 480i mode. Heres is a example: http://www.designgraphik.com/x/interlace.pdf Just doing a test in the studio, you can see the interlacing. Im just doing a P2 import in Final Cut. Im not sure if its final cut jacking this up or what. Also one thing im noticing, when shooting in 480i, is that the viewfinder acts like its shrinking the image. Edges look fuzzy, etc. But when you bump up to 720p mode, everythings nice again. Last edited by Michael Paul Young; March 10th, 2006 at 11:19 AM.

March 9th, 2006, 08:32 PM	#2
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	have u ever shot in progressive scan before??? best thing to do is do a search on progressive shooting and this should answer any concerns u have with 24p

March 9th, 2006, 10:25 PM	#3
Michael Paul Young Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Baltimore, MD, USA Posts: 28	yes, I shot with the XL2 in the same mode many of times, but in Dv compression. Never did I have such a result as Im having now..and that was on even more of a compression.

March 10th, 2006, 09:22 AM	#5
Michael Paul Young Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Baltimore, MD, USA Posts: 28	Im just brining the photage in via P2, import straight into Final cut. Even just playing that imported stuff back, not ina sequence, its interlaced and such. To be a bit more in detail...Put the P2 card into the powerbook, open Final Cut, file import, from P2. Then when I open it in the library, and play back, its interlaced and such.

March 10th, 2006, 09:47 AM	#6
Michael Paul Young Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Baltimore, MD, USA Posts: 28	I just did another test...when I shoot 30p, no interlacing issues...But when I shoot 24p I get the interlacing....

March 10th, 2006, 03:00 PM	#9
Michael Paul Young Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Baltimore, MD, USA Posts: 28	Well the issue is this, it seems for some reason, just these modes 480i/24p, 480i/24pa, using any of the available encoders, Final Cut brings it in wrong. Its bringing them at 29.97 with lower field interlace for some reason. So then I do remove advanced pulldown, which gets me my 24p, but then its still interlaced in its properties. All im doing is selecting the clips via the P2 import screen. If anyone has experienced this problem as well, feel free to shine some light.

March 10th, 2006, 03:18 PM	#10
Jared Heck New Boot Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Lansing, Michigan Posts: 5	The issue is that in 720p the camera will record 24fps natively to the p2 card. If you wish to record 24p in 480i or 1080i the camera always records a full 29.97fps interlaced stream and the pull down has to be removed in post.

March 10th, 2006, 03:32 PM	#11
Michael Paul Young Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Baltimore, MD, USA Posts: 28	So no matter what your gonna get interlacing? Becuase I removed the pull down, got it to 24p, discovered in Final Cut how to change fields to "none". But the result is still interlaced movement...I used an xl2 before this camera, and the same exact same mode did not give me these results. Bit on top of it all, its really odd to me, that if I bump to 30p, this does not happen.

March 10th, 2006, 03:37 PM	#12
Leonard Levy Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,684	What do you mean by interlaced mania? Is there any possibility you have the fields reversed?

March 10th, 2006, 03:53 PM	#13
Michael Paul Young Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Baltimore, MD, USA Posts: 28	See my pdf link above? Thats how it looks in Final Cut, interlaced lines, progressive frame rate should not have this. Final cut or this camera is flaking out on any of the 24p modes when in 480i. If i shoot 480i 30p, there is no interlacing. Its not making any sense...

March 10th, 2006, 05:07 PM	#14
Leonard Levy Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,684	I don't understand why you are having a problem unless you are doing something unusual with the footage. 24P at 480i is built into a 60i interlaced signal, so the timeline you are using in fina lcut pro should just be a normal interlaced timeline - plain garden variety video. What are your timeline settings and what are your settings for field dominance. I don't think you should check "none" on fields and you shouldn't be merssing around with removing pulldowns. Plain old video timeline.

March 10th, 2006, 05:22 PM	#15
Michael Paul Young Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Baltimore, MD, USA Posts: 28	Wells, its not even a timeline playback issue. Its just previewing the file right after import via P2 Import in FC. I understand the basic setups of timeline and fields. How is it though, ill shot same exact thing in 480i / 30p, and theres no interlacing and final cut reads it right off the P2 card just fine. But when I shoot 480i/24p, the photage has fields and is interlaced? im sorry, that just doesnt make any sense to me. This camera should not be shooting interlaced clips when in progressive frame rate mode. Like I mentioned before, 30p doesnt have fields, why does this 24p/pa have it? Is anyone else using this format, and is it interlaced on import?