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#46 | ||
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#47 | |
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#48 |
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Jeff - Forgive me if I missed it somewhere in your posts, but I would like to ask what your tape cost is, per gigabyte, with the tape system that you currently use for backup.
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#49 |
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I won't try and predict what Panasonic will do, but if I remember my history properly I wouldn't want to be one of the 'never ever' posters here either --
Seems to me when DV hit the scene, Panasonic was a 'no way' -- no way to DV tape (ME) no way to no linear audio tracks, and no way to Firewire. Over time, and watching both the consumer DV market grow and the prosumer one get dominated by Sony ... Panasonic changed its tune. Firewire appeared on devices, VTRs accepted ME tape, and ultimately DVCPro was relegated to a niche market as DV became a dominant format. Do I like the HVX? Yes. Am I ready for the P2 workflow? Yes. Do I wish that the HVX had the ability to record and play HDV if so requested ... Yes again. Will this feature seem even more desirable once Panasonic joins the consumer HD market (at this point, they offer nothing -- and a visit to my local Best Buy finds consumer HDV is the 'growth market') ... Yes yet again. Panasonic has a best in field prosumer HD camcorder, IMHO. But the field is a tough one, and prosumer is a small market. HDV looks likely to be the next consumer DV -- which means we'll still be buying tapes for years to come. Add HDV as an option to the HVX -- what has Panny got to lose? Cheers, GB |
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#50 | |
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For many people, the limiting factor will be the firewire or USB2 interface if they use the camera as the reader or a device like Panasonic's P2 Drive. For raw speed, the best is a PCMCIA interface connected directly to the PCI bus in a desktop workstation. I have the one from Spec-Comm ($80). The only drawback is that cards are inserted on the rear of the computer, but the system I have installed this in is a SFF 9"x10"x13" box and it now sits sideways on my desk. The speed of the storage system a person is copying too will also be a limiting factor. I don't use DTE drives for DV because so far I haven't seen any that I have liked. Firestore has never impressed me, especially for the price and hopefully their offering for the HVX will be a huge advance over their previous products. But having a single 2.5" HDD to work with, it's not going to be a speed demon, it's only going to let me copy the video from it to my SAN at real-time or slightly better. For in-studio situations, I would capture direct to a workstation that has a direct connection to the LAN/SAN. So far, DTE drives haven't been truly Direct To Edit. Sure, I can plug one in and start editing, but not before I make a master archive of the video. And the drives thus far have been little faster than capturing off tape. Tape was/is an established workflow, but IMO, it's time to move on.
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#51 | |
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$21.80 / 240GB = $0.0908 per GB. At < $0.1 per GB, it doesn't seem too bad. But admittedly, I have over $6K invested in the rack-mount tape archival system. Like anything else, it's just a tool for the job. While I know I'm not the normal guy around here, I'm not unusual compared to others doing the same work... In fact, I am the normal. For those with a more IT-centric workflow, handling large volumes of data, a comprehensive backup and archival system is a necessity. The majority of what I do is created entirely from scratch on the computer and a large-scale tape backup and archival system is currently the only solution that makes sense in terms of reliabilty and cost. It was a small investment in the scheme of things and once established is not a big deal or huge cost to operate. But as video professionals who deal mostly with just video, are increasingly faced with more IT issues, such systems will become more commonplace in their workflows. Tape is on the way out and other means of recording are on the way in -- and just as we have seen with photography and audio/music industries, the initial medium used for acquisition will more often than not only be a temporary means of transport and not intended or suitable for a master archive.
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#52 | |
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And maybe not even then, if P2 succeeds in this marketplace. There's several credible rumors out there saying that HVX200 pre-orders were on the order of 2 to 3 thousand units. That's a lot of P2 cards to go with those cameras.
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#53 | |
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#54 |
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Doubtless there will be version B sometime -- buyers that are always waiting for the 'next' model will wait a long time!
I have no problem with the P2 workflow, and I don't doubt for a second that P2 prices will, by today's standards, plummet. The first HDD I bought cost me $5,000 ... and held 10MB, IIRC. In more recent memory, I paid $300 for a memory stick ... that held 32MB. Memory prices fall -- that's a fact. But volumes in the thousands, or even tens of thousands are fine for a niche product, but will never make a real dent in the broader marketplace. Assuming that Panasonic wants into the consumer HD market, it is unlikely we are talking P2 -- HDV is selling orders of magnitude above these numbers. Keep P2 -- I like it. But add/include whatever consumer HD format Panny comes to market with ... and the writing on the wall looks pretty clear, HDV on 6mm tape is the home consumer HD standard. Won't stop me from buying an HVX200 -- I can make money from it now, and I like the way it handles. But absolutism in all things is a barrier, and I fear that in 'denying' HDV Panasonic may paint itself into a corner. Cheers, GB |
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#55 | |
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#56 |
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These HD camcorder prototypes were shown at CES by Panasonic but without any supporting information.
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/ces/p...pes-146633.php Now that the GS400 has been phased out (and replaced by the lower priced/spec`d GS500) they might be the basis for their consumer HD camera. It is difficult to tell from the photos whether there is any provision for tape, but it doesn`t look like it. My impression is that they are card based. If so presumably their launch will depend on large enough SD cards being available to shoot DV and 720p. |
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#57 | |
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#58 |
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FWIW,
Street price on 133X 4GB SD chips with a zero-fault rating is about $280. I would say that a manufacturer like Sandisk could sell a 16GB P2 card through discount channels and keep it at $1500 or less. Panasonic is charging a 25% to 35% premium for P2 cards, but being the big name provider and sole-provider, it only makes sense. Look at what they charge for batteries vs. the DVXuser or Spec-Comm batteries.
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#59 | |
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But like you said, there is the better transfer rate. I would use DTE drives for DV if they provided a significant advantage over DV tape - they don't. Now some of the newer DTE units that can handle DV100 would offer 4X realtime transfer to a PC when shooting DV. That would be of interest to me... However, now that my HVX is up and running and doing great, I have no interest in going back to DV. It's HD only from here on out... I sold my DVX100 Original about a month ago. I still have my DVX100A, but I haven't decided if I want to sell it or ship it off for an Andromeda conversion. I'll wait for prices to die down a bit and supply to catch up, but I will probably be replacing the 100A with another HVX.
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#60 | |
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