So for clarification purposes... at DVinfo.net

Greg Bates · February 20th, 2006, 05:00 PM

The only way to capture via firewire on a Laptop pc is using Edius Broadcast currently, or move to the darkside and use FCP5. Correct?

Shane Ross · February 20th, 2006, 06:35 PM

Since when is FCP the darkside?

Boyd Ostroff · February 20th, 2006, 06:44 PM

I guess the world must have turned ;-)

Greg Bates · February 20th, 2006, 08:01 PM

I'm a PC man, but for the sake of workflow i'm not opposed to switching. I'm trying to figure out how much money this camera is gonna cost me, and not just for P2 cards. But I am not opposed to change.

Robert Lane · February 20th, 2006, 09:08 PM

Greg,

Not that I don't think PC's aren't a viable video editing platform, I think once you actually get your hands and head around the FCP workflow and ease of use and interoperability with 3rd party programs from inside a FCP timeline your worries of being a convert will subside.

I used to own an IT consulting company on the side from my primary business of commercial print work and used to extoll the virtues of a custom-built Win-Tel system vs. any Mac-based hardware for years. In fact, I personally built and optimized the fastest systems in our area for a few years and used things like Microsoft Flight Simulator with all the sliders to maximum as a benchmark for overall system performance and speed.

Then came time for me to actually try and use all this ultra-high end PC based hardware as an editing platform. Within a few months I found myself eating my words about PC's being the end-all solution for anything in the digital realm. Why? I spent 45 minutes on a G4 tower with FCP 4 and found myself flowing through rough edits in a way I never saw possible on any PC-based solution. That is, without spending 5 times the money on either the top-end Avid or Sony turnkey edit system.

Ever since that fateful day I've been a Mac user for anything photo or video related. I still have a high-end Win-Tel machine - it runs Microsoft Flight Simulator very well.

Greg Bates · February 20th, 2006, 11:52 PM

I don't doubt you at all Robert and I think i'll have to add a MAC to my workflow, but I do love the integration of the Adobe studio. Two years ago Premiere was new to me, so i'm not so entrenched that I am afraid to change, its more a money/current usability issue. I hate to spend money I don't have to.

Robert Lane · February 21st, 2006, 12:15 AM

Greg, I think it comes down mainly to personal workflow preferences for the most part. I haven't used the latest version of Adobe Studio/Premiere, but a local editor just upgraded from Premiere 1.5 and likes the changes.

If you've already purchased the latest Adobe suite and upgraded your hardware to boot I'm not sure adding a Mac would give you much benefit, and I certainly wouldn't jump ship and change platforms.

However if you haven't already made the investment I'd get some hands-on time with the latest version of FCP and see how things fit and feel for you.

I haven't paid much attention to the PC/HVX solutions since it's not relevant to my work, but from what I can gather it's not quite as smooth a workflow as it is on the Mac - at least not yet.

In another six months when both the HVX and the newer versions of all the edit suites have been upgraded my guess is the playing field will become more level, however many are speculating that the Apple/FCP booth at NAB might have a bigger draw this year.

One thing is certain: Now that Intel chips live in both Windows and Mac machines the under-the-hood differences between Windows and OSX will become less and less as time goes on. Since Microsoft owns a part of Apple it wouldn't surprise me if in the next 5 years the two OS's merge into one. God help us all if that happens. (big laughs)

Sergio Perez · February 21st, 2006, 02:08 AM

Pc's and Macs are almost equal nowadays. Premiere works just like FCP, and the native integration of the adobe family works better on PC than on Mac. However, When you count the goods vs the bads, the thing is the Mac is giving you a package with software at a very competitive price. Being the manufacturer of both hardware and software, this assures better reliability. I work and edit on both PC's and Macs, one with Premiere and the other with FCP. I prefer premiere for Alpha channel and graphics manipulation, while I do prefer FCP's multiformat and better quicktime file encoding. My Premiere also can't cope with very long projects with lots of cuts. No such problem on my Mac.

Robert M Wright · February 21st, 2006, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Bates

...or move to the darkside and use FCP5

I couldn't help but thinking, wouldn't having Bill Gates playing Luke Skywalker, and Steve Jobs playing Darth Vader, be something of a type-casting blunder?

Sergio Perez · February 21st, 2006, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert M Wright

I couldn't help but thinking, wouldn't having Bill Gates playing Luke Skywalker, and Steve Jobs playing Darth Vader, be something of a type-casting blunder?

Actually, if we see it in a more abstract perspective, the Dark Side could very well be Apple, since it builds and does all software, with comicssion to everything developed for it. Apple Empire, in other words. As for PC, there's no unique empire, with Microsoft only suplying the OS, and you having the liberty of building the hardware whichever way you like it and freely.

Boyd Ostroff · February 21st, 2006, 08:03 AM

Guys, now would be a good time to remind everyone of DVinfo's zero tolerance policy on platform wars. Please try to focus the discussion on the hardware/software/workflow issues and not the religious ones. Thanks for your cooperation.

Greg Bates · February 21st, 2006, 08:18 AM

Hmmm...maybe darkside was the wrong description of the platform. I'm really not that attached to PC's and this is reminding me of the Ford vs. Mopar wars. I'm just looking for a solution with what I already have, as I have become less enamored with having toys and actually purchasing tools. Thansk for the info guys and i'll have to sit down and weigh my options, but I think it may be time to look toward getting some fcp experience.

Robert Lane · February 21st, 2006, 09:17 AM

Greg,

I'm assuming you have or are getting an HVX. Here's what I'd do as a real-world test:

Storyboard a small 15 second spot for yourself. Shoot the footage on your HVX and import those clips into both the Adobe and Apple systems and create your spot.

Once you've had the ability to see the differences between the two environments using this same-edit-output perspective you learn which system has benefits/weaknesses based on YOUR needs, not the well intended coercion of knights on both sides of "the force". (laughs)

Greg Bates · February 21st, 2006, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Lane

Greg,

I'm assuming you have or are getting an HVX. Here's what I'd do as a real-world test:

Storyboard a small 15 second spot for yourself. Shoot the footage on your HVX and import those clips into both the Adobe and Apple systems and create your spot.

Once you've had the ability to see the differences between the two environments using this same-edit-output perspective you learn which system has benefits/weaknesses based on YOUR needs, not the well intended coercion of knights on both sides of "the force". (laughs)

Lol, i'll do that hopefully i'll have my HVX this week and borrow a compadres FCP system for a bit. Thanks for the generous advice!

Gary L Childress · February 23rd, 2006, 12:37 PM

Greg,
Don't go gettin' inferiority complexes about Premier. The new version rocks. Hopefully they will deal with HVX issues soon.

Some context:
I have been editing for a living since the mid 1980's, 1" C format in those days.
I remember when Premier first came out, the owner came into my D2 bay claiming that he was replacing everything with Premier. Right....

Ever since then I've had it in for Premier.

I now work Avid Meridian systems 5 or 6 days a week. I have FCP and an AJA IO for my own projects including broadcast spots. I am all Mac.

Last month the Motion Graphics LA Group had Adobe in to show off the new Premier bundle. It blew me away. The interoperability between Premier, After Effects, Photoshop and Audition were great. They have come through with everything Apple promises with their bundle but only partly delivers on. Now Aja makes a solution for Premier and of course Blackmagic has their stuff.

I am not familier enough with Premier to know if it has the support for film projects. I doubt it. But for video projects it's a huge step.

February 20th, 2006, 05:00 PM	#1
Greg Bates Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 186	So for clarification purposes... The only way to capture via firewire on a Laptop pc is using Edius Broadcast currently, or move to the darkside and use FCP5. Correct?

February 20th, 2006, 09:08 PM	#5
Robert Lane Go Go Godzilla Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA Posts: 2,825 Images: 15	Resistance is futile... Greg, Not that I don't think PC's aren't a viable video editing platform, I think once you actually get your hands and head around the FCP workflow and ease of use and interoperability with 3rd party programs from inside a FCP timeline your worries of being a convert will subside. I used to own an IT consulting company on the side from my primary business of commercial print work and used to extoll the virtues of a custom-built Win-Tel system vs. any Mac-based hardware for years. In fact, I personally built and optimized the fastest systems in our area for a few years and used things like Microsoft Flight Simulator with all the sliders to maximum as a benchmark for overall system performance and speed. Then came time for me to actually try and use all this ultra-high end PC based hardware as an editing platform. Within a few months I found myself eating my words about PC's being the end-all solution for anything in the digital realm. Why? I spent 45 minutes on a G4 tower with FCP 4 and found myself flowing through rough edits in a way I never saw possible on any PC-based solution. That is, without spending 5 times the money on either the top-end Avid or Sony turnkey edit system. Ever since that fateful day I've been a Mac user for anything photo or video related. I still have a high-end Win-Tel machine - it runs Microsoft Flight Simulator very well.

February 21st, 2006, 02:08 AM	#8
Sergio Perez Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Macau Posts: 331	Pc's and Macs are almost equal nowadays. Premiere works just like FCP, and the native integration of the adobe family works better on PC than on Mac. However, When you count the goods vs the bads, the thing is the Mac is giving you a package with software at a very competitive price. Being the manufacturer of both hardware and software, this assures better reliability. I work and edit on both PC's and Macs, one with Premiere and the other with FCP. I prefer premiere for Alpha channel and graphics manipulation, while I do prefer FCP's multiformat and better quicktime file encoding. My Premiere also can't cope with very long projects with lots of cuts. No such problem on my Mac. __________________ If you don't believe in your film, no one else will. Last edited by Sergio Perez; February 21st, 2006 at 03:21 AM.

February 20th, 2006, 06:35 PM	#2
Shane Ross Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 539	Since when is FCP the darkside?

February 20th, 2006, 06:44 PM	#3
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	I guess the world must have turned ;-)

February 20th, 2006, 08:01 PM	#4
Greg Bates Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 186	I'm a PC man, but for the sake of workflow i'm not opposed to switching. I'm trying to figure out how much money this camera is gonna cost me, and not just for P2 cards. But I am not opposed to change.

February 20th, 2006, 11:52 PM	#6
Greg Bates Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 186	I don't doubt you at all Robert and I think i'll have to add a MAC to my workflow, but I do love the integration of the Adobe studio. Two years ago Premiere was new to me, so i'm not so entrenched that I am afraid to change, its more a money/current usability issue. I hate to spend money I don't have to.

February 21st, 2006, 12:15 AM	#7
Robert Lane Go Go Godzilla Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA Posts: 2,825 Images: 15	Greg, I think it comes down mainly to personal workflow preferences for the most part. I haven't used the latest version of Adobe Studio/Premiere, but a local editor just upgraded from Premiere 1.5 and likes the changes. If you've already purchased the latest Adobe suite and upgraded your hardware to boot I'm not sure adding a Mac would give you much benefit, and I certainly wouldn't jump ship and change platforms. However if you haven't already made the investment I'd get some hands-on time with the latest version of FCP and see how things fit and feel for you. I haven't paid much attention to the PC/HVX solutions since it's not relevant to my work, but from what I can gather it's not quite as smooth a workflow as it is on the Mac - at least not yet. In another six months when both the HVX and the newer versions of all the edit suites have been upgraded my guess is the playing field will become more level, however many are speculating that the Apple/FCP booth at NAB might have a bigger draw this year. One thing is certain: Now that Intel chips live in both Windows and Mac machines the under-the-hood differences between Windows and OSX will become less and less as time goes on. Since Microsoft owns a part of Apple it wouldn't surprise me if in the next 5 years the two OS's merge into one. God help us all if that happens. (big laughs)

February 21st, 2006, 08:03 AM	#11
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	Guys, now would be a good time to remind everyone of DVinfo's zero tolerance policy on platform wars. Please try to focus the discussion on the hardware/software/workflow issues and not the religious ones. Thanks for your cooperation.

February 21st, 2006, 08:18 AM	#12
Greg Bates Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 186	Hmmm...maybe darkside was the wrong description of the platform. I'm really not that attached to PC's and this is reminding me of the Ford vs. Mopar wars. I'm just looking for a solution with what I already have, as I have become less enamored with having toys and actually purchasing tools. Thansk for the info guys and i'll have to sit down and weigh my options, but I think it may be time to look toward getting some fcp experience.

February 21st, 2006, 09:17 AM	#13
Robert Lane Go Go Godzilla Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA Posts: 2,825 Images: 15	Greg, I'm assuming you have or are getting an HVX. Here's what I'd do as a real-world test: Storyboard a small 15 second spot for yourself. Shoot the footage on your HVX and import those clips into both the Adobe and Apple systems and create your spot. Once you've had the ability to see the differences between the two environments using this same-edit-output perspective you learn which system has benefits/weaknesses based on YOUR needs, not the well intended coercion of knights on both sides of "the force". (laughs)

February 23rd, 2006, 12:37 PM	#15
Gary L Childress Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 42	Greg, Don't go gettin' inferiority complexes about Premier. The new version rocks. Hopefully they will deal with HVX issues soon. Some context: I have been editing for a living since the mid 1980's, 1" C format in those days. I remember when Premier first came out, the owner came into my D2 bay claiming that he was replacing everything with Premier. Right.... Ever since then I've had it in for Premier. I now work Avid Meridian systems 5 or 6 days a week. I have FCP and an AJA IO for my own projects including broadcast spots. I am all Mac. Last month the Motion Graphics LA Group had Adobe in to show off the new Premier bundle. It blew me away. The interoperability between Premier, After Effects, Photoshop and Audition were great. They have come through with everything Apple promises with their bundle but only partly delivers on. Now Aja makes a solution for Premier and of course Blackmagic has their stuff. I am not familier enough with Premier to know if it has the support for film projects. I doubt it. But for video projects it's a huge step.