Any Firewire Previews Out to Component HD Monitor

Jaime Valles · January 17th, 2006, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

4) You do not want to use an SD monitor for HD CC. Different color spaces.

Just curious... What does one use to color correct HD? Specifically 1080/24p DVCProHD? The Pro LCDs out there are all 1280x720, great for 720p. But what about 1080? Do I really need a $20K CRT?

Barry Werger · January 17th, 2006, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Green

Okay, just tried it through Avid on the PC, and it appears that the manual is correct, there is no component output when doing a firewire input (at least in HD mode, didn't try in DV or DV50 mode).

Barry, thanks so much for testing this!

Quote:

Don't know if it shows S-video or Composite, I'm assuming it does...

Hmmm.... why? I would assume it's not doing an analog conversion at all... why would it output composite but not component?

Also... can you enlighten us on that "still frame out the component output" issue in this thread? Does the component out show still frames, and can they be used for CC?

Again, Thanks!
-Barry

Steve Mullen · January 18th, 2006, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Werger

why would it output composite but not component?

IF it outputs composite and S-video but not component -- I suspect its a copy-protection restriction.

The industry is moving very rapidly to carrying "to your HDTV" signal only via HDMI with HDCP. That will enable the content copyright owner to set a bit and either disable component output or cause component to be no better than 480p.

Allowing 1394 to HD component leaves a loophole in this pro-Hollywood scheme. A camcorder could be used as a "converter."

Pro equipment is moving rapidly toward the use HD-SDI for transfer of HD.

Barry Green · January 18th, 2006, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Werger

Also... can you enlighten us on that "still frame out the component output" issue in this thread? Does the component out show still frames, and can they be used for CC?

Can't clarify anything on that. I saw no frames, still or otherwise, on the component output. The monitor remained black.

Barry Green · January 18th, 2006, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

Allowing 1394 to HD component leaves a loophole in this pro-Hollywood scheme. A camcorder could be used as a "converter."

Yeah, but -- that makes no sense, because you can record the footage, and then turn around and play it back out the component outputs. There's no copy protection in place. If someone had a high-capacity card (eventually there'll be 128gb cards capable of hours of HD) they could just record it and then play it out...

Steve Mullen · January 18th, 2006, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Green

Yeah, but -- that makes no sense, because you can record the footage, and then turn around and play it back out the component outputs.

Remember when the FX1 came-out that Sony officially stated that you will not be able to feed 1394 into a Blu-ray recorder for "copyright"reasons. Yet, they said you would be able to bring in HDV to an NLE and then write it to BR.

Which, of course, equally makes no sense.

The key seems to be "direct conversion."

Once you record and playback -- the device stops being a "converter" and becomes a VTR. Hence whatever is input is compressed and uncompressed.

I think we will see such "no sense" blocks all designed to appease Hollywood.

Barry Werger · January 19th, 2006, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Green

Yeah, but -- that makes no sense, because you can record the footage, and then turn around and play it back out the component outputs. There's no copy protection in place. If someone had a high-capacity card (eventually there'll be 128gb cards capable of hours of HD) they could just record it and then play it out...

No sense, but not uncommon, I guess. iTunes doesn't let you share downloaded files... but you can burn them on CDs (uncompressed) and do what you will with them.

Also, in the audio world, it's been kind of a "price of entry" thing. Pro-level equipmet often allows defeating of CSS, while consumer-level equipment doesn't....

Barry Werger · January 19th, 2006, 04:13 AM

Here's my stoopid question, since I so far have no HDTV and haven't found a 100% solid answer on the web:

Composite and S-Video connections are only SD, right?

----

And, if so, this means the HVX outputs an SD signal on those outputs whenever shooting? So that, all I need is a cheapo MiniDV or D8 camcorder connected via S-Video to have an "emergency" SD backup on tape?

I know the quality will relatively suck, but it's something! Most everything i do is live and critical!

Barry Green · January 19th, 2006, 05:32 PM

Yes composite and s-video are SD-only. And you can also configure the component outputs to downconvert to SD too.

Yes, the HVX outputs an SD signal on s-video and composite at all times. Yes, you could make an "emergency" backup like that. No, you wouldn't be too happy with the quality, I'm sure... but you could do what you're asking.

Jaser Stockert · January 19th, 2006, 05:33 PM

barry green,

will going component out from the hvx to component in on a dell 2405 work for viewing 1080p footage? is this the cheapest way to viewing w/ a nle? if i don't want to use my camera, will a black magic card and an hdlink be the next cheapest solution? thanks.

also, what do you guys think about using the sony PVM-14L5 for viewing 1080p and 720p footage? looking to go possibly this route as well...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

Marty Hudzik · January 19th, 2006, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaser Stockert

barry green,

will going component out from the hvx to component in on a dell 2405 work for viewing 1080p footage? is this the cheapest way to viewing w/ a nle? if i don't want to use my camera, will a black magic card and an hdlink be the next cheapest solution? thanks.

This would be the cheapest way if it actually worked. But apparently it doesn't. The component outs do not send a signal when the HVX is being fed a digital DVCPRO-HD stream into its 1394 ports. Sad but true. And although Barry would probably argue this, I feel it is a political move to limit the cameras use as a digital converter. They are either protecting sales of the higher end DVCPRO-HD deck (which does work with a NLE such as FCP) or are restricted by certain organizations that wish to prevent digital copies of copyrighted materials from being duplicated this way. There is another thread out there to discuss this theory, I won't get into it nor do I believe it!

Either way it comes down to you cannot see HD out to a monitor from a NLE without using a Kona or Decklink or something like that. You are talking some $$$ to do it.

For whatever reason the camera will not. Bummer.

On another note...Barry you said that it ouputs SD via the composite and SVideo at all times. Even when scrubbing the timeline in FCP or AVID in HD? I don't know if that would help at all but maybe seeing an SD version on an NTSC monitor might do something for those of us without Kona style interfaces....

thanks!

January 19th, 2006, 05:33 PM	#25
Jaser Stockert Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: California Posts: 147	barry green, will going component out from the hvx to component in on a dell 2405 work for viewing 1080p footage? is this the cheapest way to viewing w/ a nle? if i don't want to use my camera, will a black magic card and an hdlink be the next cheapest solution? thanks. also, what do you guys think about using the sony PVM-14L5 for viewing 1080p and 720p footage? looking to go possibly this route as well... http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search Last edited by Jaser Stockert; January 19th, 2006 at 06:09 PM.

January 19th, 2006, 04:13 AM	#23
Barry Werger Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 104	Here's my stoopid question, since I so far have no HDTV and haven't found a 100% solid answer on the web: Composite and S-Video connections are only SD, right? ---- And, if so, this means the HVX outputs an SD signal on those outputs whenever shooting? So that, all I need is a cheapo MiniDV or D8 camcorder connected via S-Video to have an "emergency" SD backup on tape? I know the quality will relatively suck, but it's something! Most everything i do is live and critical!

January 19th, 2006, 05:32 PM	#24
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	Yes composite and s-video are SD-only. And you can also configure the component outputs to downconvert to SD too. Yes, the HVX outputs an SD signal on s-video and composite at all times. Yes, you could make an "emergency" backup like that. No, you wouldn't be too happy with the quality, I'm sure... but you could do what you're asking.