Trying to figure out the fastest way to achieve backup at DVinfo.net

Kaku Ito · January 12th, 2006, 08:56 PM

Okay, I have many P2 volumes backed up on my iPod, then I would want to backup somewhere else. I talked about backing up each volume consist of 4GB to DVD-R, but it takes quite a long time to do this every time.

So, what I'm doing now is to copy these to a larger hard drive connected to my Power Mac G5. First, connect the iPod that I'm using for backing up the P2 data in the field with HVX200. I have a G-tech G-RAID (Firewire 800), so I made a folder, named "HVX Archives", then make a folder inside of that with the session name like "060101_01night shoot", then directly copy the contents of the volume from iPod. This means the "CONTENTS" folder and "LASTCLIP.TXT" file.

Then when you boot FCP5, go to the P2 import menu and direct the location to the appropriate location. It worked.

So, I would continue to accumulate all the footage in the G-RAID, and maybe make a AIT2 backups on tapes or just get another Hard Disk Drive like G-Drive.

Kaku Ito · January 12th, 2006, 10:23 PM

By the way, I tried to use a PC-card/USB2 card reader with P2 card by I/O data and it did not work.

Sergio Perez · January 13th, 2006, 02:11 AM

Kaku, your Ipod is Mac formated, right? Probably that's why it can't be recognized by a PC. How about archiving in dlt tape? What's the time of transfer to these tapes? I worked with them once, but don't actually know the speed of transfer...

Kaku Ito · January 13th, 2006, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sergio Perez

Kaku, your Ipod is Mac formated, right? Probably that's why it can't be recognized by a PC. How about archiving in dlt tape? What's the time of transfer to these tapes? I worked with them once, but don't actually know the speed of transfer...

Here, I'm talking about the P2 card not mounting using the I/O data PC-card reader using Macintosh. iPod is working fine as HVX formated volume, otherwise you wouldn't have seen the files I uploaded here in the forum...
However, copying the contents from mac mounted iPod to the drive is taking longer than I thought, this is probably due to the slow access speed of iPod itself. Too bad. I will search for faster portable battery operated firewire hard drive, but probably faster to buy Cineporter or focus Firestore.....

AIT2 is maybe little faster than normal DLT. But it is maybe about 6MB/per sec. I would use this to backup my main archive volume while the system is not used for editing.

I have decided to purchase G-Tech G-RAID 1TB, to make the copying process faster to bring in the files to FCP5. I have to see what happens when I trash the media files after I finish a project, find out how "offline" media files are connected to the original footage file from the backup I make.

Dennis Wood · January 13th, 2006, 07:32 AM

Other than the very latest (SDLT), DLT is a bit old in the tooth. LTO has a 400MB capacity/tape and handles about 60MB/s (compressed). It's much faster than all versions of DLT.

This is very popular choice/preference for enterprise (meaning large data sets) backup. Either is much faster than AIT2...

Kaku Ito · January 13th, 2006, 09:48 AM

Thanks Dennis,

I'm so out of it with tape streamers. Sony didn't do much more with the AIT drives it seems. The drive I have is from maybe about over 5 years ago. AIT is now AIT-3 I believe. Panasonic is providing ATI solution for backing up P2 footage though.

Things like video data won't compress much tho, so what is the fastest tape drive around now? Ultrium (i guess it is based on the same technology as LTP)? It says 800GB max for the size and 80MB/sec for the transferring rate.

I think I just keep buying hard disks for now.

Jay Morris · January 14th, 2006, 12:02 AM

What do you guys think of the following product as a long term archive solution:

Iomega
Price : $ 329.95
35GB/90GB Rev USB2 Backup Drive

Also, you've mentioned other archive solutions. What are the prices/costs for each?

And...

I purchased the Sony HC1 HDV Camera months ago (it's my run and gun family video camera). It can be used as a player/recorder. Could I use it as a recorder after editing HVX200 footage in Final Cut Pro? I'm not crazy about HDV, but it would give me a portable way for me to show my movies on other peoples HDTV's (perhaps this is a solution until HD DVD recorders come out)? I'm assuming all I would have to do is change my sequence settings from DVC Pro HD, to HD, render and output to the HDV camera? Maybe this wouldn't work with progressive footage? I'm not sure.

Any other crazy ideas?

Barry Green · January 14th, 2006, 01:14 AM

You could certainly use it as an output device, yes. Finish your timeline in FCP, and then tell it to render and output an MPEG-2 HDV stream. For 1080 it should convert fairly straightforward; for 720p there would be some scaling/stretching going on, but FCP5 is reported to have a very good scaling algorithm, much better than before, so that should be practical.

Another way to go would be to author a WMV9 DVD (not sure if Apples support that); WMV9 high-def DVDs can be played on PC-compatible computers and are probably the most portable/low-cost high-def distribution method available, but -- it would have to be played back on a computer, not on a set-top DVD player (although there are a couple of DVD players out there which can handle the format too).

Jeff Kilgroe · January 14th, 2006, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Morris

What do you guys think of the following product as a long term archive solution:

Iomega
Price : $ 329.95
35GB/90GB Rev USB2 Backup Drive

Also, you've mentioned other archive solutions. What are the prices/costs for each?

Barry already addressed the DVCPRO to HDV issue pretty well... But as for your backup question, I would not trust REV drive cartridges. They are nothing more than magnetic hard drive platters. The REV is just the next generation in the tried but true method of placing a hard disk platter into a simple plastic cartridge and keeping all the other drive components within the actual drive unit. ...Started with solutions like the SyQuest EZ-66 and EZ-135, then on to the Iomega Jaz 1/2GB etc.. Cartridges are much more reliable than a full HDD as they don't really break down, but they're still vulnerable to magnetic forces and other potential hazards. Tape should be more reliable and optical disc even more so.

If you can hold out until April/May, we should have both HD-DVD and BluRay recordable solutions to consider. Until then, a good tape drive solution is probably the way to go. I'd do a redundant mirror (RAID-1) on your capture/edit system and then have an automatic backup to tape overnight. Same solution applies to HD-DVD/BluRay or even something like the REV. Just the disk media replaces the tape.

As for cost... Figure a second HDD for the RAID-1. If you're running a RAID-0 stripe right now (many people do these days), backup your stuff and reconfigure with RAID-1.

Tape drives range in price from a few hundred to several thousand $$ depending on what type and features. But you can get an external USB2/SCSI or internal ATA/SCSI tape system for about $500 that will serve you very well.

HD-DVD/BluRay recorders will hit the market at about $800 it seems. Discs will be expensive at first, but will rapidly drop as more people buy into these solutions.

Craig Seeman · January 14th, 2006, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Green

YAnother way to go would be to author a WMV9 DVD (not sure if Apples support that); WMV9 high-def DVDs can be played on PC-compatible computers and are probably the most portable/low-cost high-def distribution method available, but -- it would have to be played back on a computer, not on a set-top DVD player (although there are a couple of DVD players out there which can handle the format too).

Barry,
Flip4Mac Studio Pro HD ($179) can make WMVHD on the Mac. Works in Final Cut Pro, FC Express, iMovie, Quicktime Pro, Cleaner 6, Squeeze 4.1, Compressor 2. Works nice! BTW the Flip4Mac Player 2.0.1 can play WMVHD in Quicktime. The Player is FREE. I was a beta tester.

Kaku Ito · January 14th, 2006, 06:05 AM

another one we can use is D-VHS, but it is not so popluar already.
Sony should make inexpensive HDV walkman.

Jay Morris · January 14th, 2006, 02:14 PM

Thanks guys for the info!

Ash Greyson · January 14th, 2006, 03:03 PM

Make sure you back-up to a RAID5 or mirrored drive. Backing up to a single drive is like playing with fire. I have a feature doc that had a striped raid die and the external back-up die both within 6 days... Best solution is a mirror or RAID5.

ash =o)

Kaku Ito · January 14th, 2006, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ash Greyson

Make sure you back-up to a RAID5 or mirrored drive. Backing up to a single drive is like playing with fire. I have a feature doc that had a striped raid die and the external back-up die both within 6 days... Best solution is a mirror or RAID5.

ash =o)

Oh yeah, Ash, I mentioned G-RAID primary and to single drive for backup. And probably on HD-DVD or something to tripple make sure.

Dan Euritt · January 15th, 2006, 11:23 AM

based on my 10 years as a pc network admin, i would not recommend any tape-based format for archiving, because it's very expensive, and the standards become obsolete too quickly... you'll be stuck with a tape drive that has no software to control it, because the new pc's won't run the software, and no compatible hardware port to plug it into.

iomega solutions? several months ago i threw my old iomega drive away, because it's too small, and the new computers don't have the serial/parallel ports to plug it into anymore... another dead standard.

raid? what hardware standard is it using to plug the controller card into? does it depend on a computer o.s. to run? how long will that be around? will you have to keep the ancient computer that controls it around forever?

i would not re-compress the source footage to another standard like wmv9, why compromise the picture quality like that?

tough choices... whatever course you take, plan on being aware enuf to update your backed-up material to the latest standards as they become available, so that you won't lose the data because of obsolete standards.

January 12th, 2006, 08:56 PM	#1
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	Trying to figure out the fastest way to achieve backup Okay, I have many P2 volumes backed up on my iPod, then I would want to backup somewhere else. I talked about backing up each volume consist of 4GB to DVD-R, but it takes quite a long time to do this every time. So, what I'm doing now is to copy these to a larger hard drive connected to my Power Mac G5. First, connect the iPod that I'm using for backing up the P2 data in the field with HVX200. I have a G-tech G-RAID (Firewire 800), so I made a folder, named "HVX Archives", then make a folder inside of that with the session name like "060101_01night shoot", then directly copy the contents of the volume from iPod. This means the "CONTENTS" folder and "LASTCLIP.TXT" file. Then when you boot FCP5, go to the P2 import menu and direct the location to the appropriate location. It worked. So, I would continue to accumulate all the footage in the G-RAID, and maybe make a AIT2 backups on tapes or just get another Hard Disk Drive like G-Drive.

January 13th, 2006, 02:11 AM	#3
Sergio Perez Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Macau Posts: 331	Kaku, your Ipod is Mac formated, right? Probably that's why it can't be recognized by a PC. How about archiving in dlt tape? What's the time of transfer to these tapes? I worked with them once, but don't actually know the speed of transfer... __________________ If you don't believe in your film, no one else will.

January 12th, 2006, 10:23 PM	#2
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	By the way, I tried to use a PC-card/USB2 card reader with P2 card by I/O data and it did not work.

January 13th, 2006, 07:32 AM	#5
Dennis Wood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 916	Other than the very latest (SDLT), DLT is a bit old in the tooth. LTO has a 400MB capacity/tape and handles about 60MB/s (compressed). It's much faster than all versions of DLT. This is very popular choice/preference for enterprise (meaning large data sets) backup. Either is much faster than AIT2...

January 13th, 2006, 09:48 AM	#6
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	Thanks Dennis, I'm so out of it with tape streamers. Sony didn't do much more with the AIT drives it seems. The drive I have is from maybe about over 5 years ago. AIT is now AIT-3 I believe. Panasonic is providing ATI solution for backing up P2 footage though. Things like video data won't compress much tho, so what is the fastest tape drive around now? Ultrium (i guess it is based on the same technology as LTP)? It says 800GB max for the size and 80MB/sec for the transferring rate. I think I just keep buying hard disks for now.

January 14th, 2006, 12:02 AM	#7
Jay Morris Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 48	What do you guys think of the following product as a long term archive solution: Iomega Price : $ 329.95 35GB/90GB Rev USB2 Backup Drive Also, you've mentioned other archive solutions. What are the prices/costs for each? And... I purchased the Sony HC1 HDV Camera months ago (it's my run and gun family video camera). It can be used as a player/recorder. Could I use it as a recorder after editing HVX200 footage in Final Cut Pro? I'm not crazy about HDV, but it would give me a portable way for me to show my movies on other peoples HDTV's (perhaps this is a solution until HD DVD recorders come out)? I'm assuming all I would have to do is change my sequence settings from DVC Pro HD, to HD, render and output to the HDV camera? Maybe this wouldn't work with progressive footage? I'm not sure. Any other crazy ideas?

January 14th, 2006, 01:14 AM	#8
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	You could certainly use it as an output device, yes. Finish your timeline in FCP, and then tell it to render and output an MPEG-2 HDV stream. For 1080 it should convert fairly straightforward; for 720p there would be some scaling/stretching going on, but FCP5 is reported to have a very good scaling algorithm, much better than before, so that should be practical. Another way to go would be to author a WMV9 DVD (not sure if Apples support that); WMV9 high-def DVDs can be played on PC-compatible computers and are probably the most portable/low-cost high-def distribution method available, but -- it would have to be played back on a computer, not on a set-top DVD player (although there are a couple of DVD players out there which can handle the format too).

January 14th, 2006, 06:05 AM	#11
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	another one we can use is D-VHS, but it is not so popluar already. Sony should make inexpensive HDV walkman.

January 14th, 2006, 02:14 PM	#12
Jay Morris Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 48	Thanks guys for the info!

January 14th, 2006, 03:03 PM	#13
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	Make sure you back-up to a RAID5 or mirrored drive. Backing up to a single drive is like playing with fire. I have a feature doc that had a striped raid die and the external back-up die both within 6 days... Best solution is a mirror or RAID5. ash =o)

January 15th, 2006, 11:23 AM	#15
Dan Euritt Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Carlsbad CA Posts: 1,132	based on my 10 years as a pc network admin, i would not recommend any tape-based format for archiving, because it's very expensive, and the standards become obsolete too quickly... you'll be stuck with a tape drive that has no software to control it, because the new pc's won't run the software, and no compatible hardware port to plug it into. iomega solutions? several months ago i threw my old iomega drive away, because it's too small, and the new computers don't have the serial/parallel ports to plug it into anymore... another dead standard. raid? what hardware standard is it using to plug the controller card into? does it depend on a computer o.s. to run? how long will that be around? will you have to keep the ancient computer that controls it around forever? i would not re-compress the source footage to another standard like wmv9, why compromise the picture quality like that? tough choices... whatever course you take, plan on being aware enuf to update your backed-up material to the latest standards as they become available, so that you won't lose the data because of obsolete standards.