H1 1080i (non 24F) SDI to DVCPROHD clip

[Barlow Elton]

Hey all,

Just thought you guys might be curious as to just how good the H1's resolution in DVCPRO HD is. I've shot some 24F but it has to be inverse telecine'd, and it's taking a little bit of trial and error. I ran home yesterday before sundown just to get a little footage I could play with. The Kona card is a very easy setup.

I ran HDV tape simultaneously, so I'll post some of the same stuff in m2t format.

Not trolling, just thought I'd show a little comparison for those of you on the fence.

www.homepage.mac.com/mrbarlowelton

Comments?

[Antoine Fabi]

there are artifacts here i dont see from HVX200 grabs.

I think both of these cameras are great.

But, so far, i like the HVX200 more, it looks more natural to my eyes.

[Barlow Elton]

Originally Posted by Antoine Fabi

there are artifacts here i dont see from HVX200 grabs.

I think both of these cameras are great.

But, so far, i like the HVX200 more, it looks more natural to my eyes.

Artifacts? You mean noise in the blacks? Would you have preferred that I crush them so you that you can't see any detail there?

This, again, was -3db. That noise you see is inherent in the codec. You can manipulate the image to deepen those blacks, but I was trying to show some RESOLUTION in 1080i. The HDV actually has more detail.

Try using the color correction in FCP and see how much you can play. You might be pleasantly surprised.

Take the taxi clip or the light saber clip from Kaku and compare.

[Steven Thomas]

Interesting, thanks for the test Barlow.

So you are saying the noise we see is due to the codec?

If so, it makes me wonder why Canon chose to demonstrate the
XLH1 using DVCPRO100 as opposed to a different format?

Although I did not see the footage, many have and said it looked awesome.

Steve

[Brian Petersen]

I took the clip into FCP (had to rename it a .mov file. When I downloaded it, it didn't have an extension) and it seemed darker than when I opened it in quicktime. Why would that be?

So I took the clip and opened it in quicktime player. And I took the same clip and opened it it Final Cut Pro in the viewer. I had the viewer show the clip at 100%. I toggled back and forth between Quicktime player and FCP. The FCP version looked like I had gone into levels and crushed the blacks a bit. Am I not setting things up right?

[Barlow Elton]

Originally Posted by Steven Thomas

So you are saying the noise we see is due to the codec?

Actually, I *believe* it's mostly the codec. This image can be cc'd fairly extensively and still retain good quality. Ditto HDV.

If you check out the Varicam demo material on the FCP 4.5 disks, you will see a lot of noise in the blacks too...on carefully produced material.

What I was happy to see was just how much detail the H1 can cram into DV100 1080i.

When I figure out a way to get 24p from the SDI, I'll show some of that material tool. It's still very detailed.

[Steven Thomas]

Thanks Barlow.
It looks good man.

[Barlow Elton]

Originally Posted by Steven Thomas

If so, it makes me wonder why Canon chose to demonstrate the XLH1 using DVCPRO100 as opposed to a different format?

Although I did not see the footage, many have and said it looked awesome.

Steve

I think you're referring to the clock maker sequence? If so, yes, it did indeed look awesome. My belief is that they did a little color correction, and it looked wonderful.

A minor theory: I believe even an F900 would've responded to that scene with a similar noise pattern, given roughly the same gain. If these 8 bit cameras didn't introduce a little noise, people would probably scream about the banding, particularly in low light scenes.

[Ash Greyson]

Originally Posted by Antoine Fabi

there are artifacts here i dont see from HVX200 grabs.

I think both of these cameras are great.

But, so far, i like the HVX200 more, it looks more natural to my eyes.

Incorrect, it is the CODEC not the camera... a $125K Varicam set-up will show the same without crushing the blacks a little. The worst issues for the codec are dark reds... NASTY!


ash =o)

[Barlow Elton]

Originally Posted by Brian Petersen

The FCP version looked like I had gone into levels and crushed the blacks a bit. Am I not setting things up right?

Wish I could help you, Brian. When you play full screen via Desktop Cinema, does it still look crushed? You might not have high quality playback enabled.

[Ronan Fournier]

Originally Posted by Brian Petersen

I took the clip into FCP (had to rename it a .mov file. When I downloaded it, it didn't have an extension) and it seemed darker than when I opened it in quicktime. Why would that be?

So I took the clip and opened it in quicktime player. And I took the same clip and opened it it Final Cut Pro in the viewer. I had the viewer show the clip at 100%. I toggled back and forth between Quicktime player and FCP. The FCP version looked like I had gone into levels and crushed the blacks a bit. Am I not setting things up right?

I have precisely the same problem with QT Player since few months. HDV movies seems brighter and less contrasted with QT Player than in FCP or BTV Pro. The gamma settings seems different... I don't know why.