New MacBook Pro

[Scott Schuster]

from the book Firewire Filmmaking:

"Although technically Apple is the legal guardian of this closely protected property, six of the eight key patents issued for FireWire technology cite Michael D. Jonas Teener as the chief architect responsible for their advancements. In fact, when Teener left National Semiconductor in 1986 to join Apple Computer, he had already begun early efforts on a low-cost technology to connect hard drives to one another."

"Working nights and weekends on his pet project, Teener became the founding chair and editor of the international standard (IEEE-1394), a blueprint for the exchange of high-bandwidth digital audio. He was also instrumental in recruiting ideas from other innovators and in expanding the ambitions of the multimedia technology to include video streaming."

"As the technical lead during the years when Apple was suffering through layoffs and dozens of threatened cancellations, Teener had to fight to keep the FireWire project alive for nearly a decade. When Steve Jobs returned to Apple in 1996, Teener urged him to implement the technology on all Macintosh computers, essentially kick-starting the desktop video revolution."

[Andrew Khalil]

In all honesty, I have never found USB 2 to be faster than firewire.
I have a USB2/firewire 400 drive and firewire is always faster, whether using Mac or PC.
In terms of firewire800, it's the one thing I'm disappointed about because I use it and notice a speed improvement when using it on Mac - I had a firewire800 card on my PC and it wasn't as much of a difference as there was when I put that card in my G5 - big difference.
Would it be possible for Apple to create a card that would plug into the express 34 slot?

[David Saraceno]

Originally Posted by Andrew Khalil

Would it be possible for Apple to create a card that would plug into the express 34 slot?

Belkin had some protypes at MWSF under class.

Express/34 is a better implementation than Cardbus, and I really see its potential for better throughput, etc

[Claude Isbell]

Originally Posted by Boyd Ostroff

MacWorld seems to think the MacBook Pro is the replacement for the PowerBook, not the iBook. You wouldn't think they would use the "pro" name for a lower performance product (think: Final Cut Pro vs. Final Cut Express)...

http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/edit...reax/index.php

This is the new "Powerbook", but I guarantee there will be more. I believe they wanted to get something out at the same time with the Yonah announcements. Although I love FW800, on a large scale, Apple didn't think that it caught on the way it hoped. Also, Express/34 is the new card format, and will have more stuff available(Adapters, etc.).

[Claude Isbell]

Although USB2 Has a higher "Attainable" rate to FW400(480 to 400), it does not sustain it, as does FW400. The simplest test is to compare video conferencing with FW and USB2. It's night and day.

[Edwin Huang]

I wouldn't recommend the MacBookPro for video editing. There were a lot of compromises made. So many, that to me the Mac Book Pro is simply an Intel ibook with an aluminum chassis. Instead they add an IR port, an isight, and a remote control is added. Nothing pro about it. It's a portable iMac.

One firewire 400 port, no s-video out, no modem, lower video resolution, combined with the simultaneous release of the iMac makes me think that they are sharing similar motherboards. An IR port, an isight, and a remote control is added. Nothing pro about it. It's a portable iMac.


They also went from a 65 W power supply to an 85 watt power supply and a bigger battery. So i think you're gonna get a hot laptop with low battery life.

But time will tell. Until then I hope it's a flop so Apple can get it's act together and sell us something we can actually use.

[David Saraceno]

Originally Posted by Edwin Huang

I wouldn't recommend the MacBookPro for video editing.

One firewire 400 port, no s-video out, no modem, lower video resolution, combined with the simultaneous release of the iMac makes me think that they are sharing similar motherboards. An IR port, an isight, and a remote control is added. Nothing pro about it. It's a portable iMac.

There is S video out with the supplied adapter. Don't know the reason why a modem is essential for video editing, but may be I missed something. Resolution is minus 60 horizontally, so I don't see that as an issue.

However, I agree that no laptop is really a good solution for editing particularly on a single firewire bus laptop.

In this respect, the new one is no different than any of the old ones. FW800 ports on single bus firewire laptops have built in potential for DF issues. Many ports but one bus means shared throughput especially with decks or camera are connected

I don't think you can build a laptop without a second internal hard drive, and expect to be able to use to editing professionally.

but that's my view only

[Peter Richardson]

"I don't think you can build a laptop without a second internal hard drive, and expect to be able to use to editing professionally."

I edited my entire 72 min. feature documentary on my 15" 1.25Ghz Powerbook. It's playing at Sundance next week.

Sorry if this has been asked before, but when do you think we can expect to see FW800 adapter cards for Express/34? Am I correct in assuming that an external drive connected to this card would be on a separate bus from the FW400 port?

If you guys don't think this is Apple's "video editing" laptop, then what is? The fastest Intel mobile processor is, what, 2ghz? Do you think they'll get this into a mobile editing workstation, like a new 17"? Curious to hear the opinion of our technical experts on this thread (of which I am certainly not one). Mostly I'm debating whether I can get rid of my 15" and get one of the new ones and know I'm not going to regret the decision. Thanks as always guys,

Peter

[Steev Dinkins]

Originally Posted by Edwin Huang

I wouldn't recommend the MacBook Pro for video editing.

I can easily see rough cut or fast turn editing remotely on a MacBook Pro. I bet it's a treat. Would you want it as your full blown editing workstation? No. But that's old news regarding ANY portable computer.

If you were waiting and needing to purchase a PowerBook, it's rather obvious the best value will eventually be the MacBook Pro, once the software is ready. Furthermore, I'll bet we'll be seeing 3rd party PCMCIA, SATA, and FW800 connectivity via Express slot soon. Boom.

The biggest issue will always be with anyone who doesn't prefer the bleeding edge, and can't hang with the faith, wait, risk, and experimentation factors.

[Peter Richardson]

More grist for the mill...

http://engadget.com/2006/01/12/did-s...-intel-models/

http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1460

http://wiredblogs.tripod.com/cultofm...try_id=1385976

[David Saraceno]

Originally Posted by Peter Richardson

I edited my entire 72 min. feature documentary on my 15" 1.25Ghz Powerbook. It's playing at Sundance next week.

Sorry if this has been asked before, but when do you think we can expect to see FW800 adapter cards for Express/34? Am I correct in assuming that an external drive connected to this card would be on a separate bus from the FW400 port?

If you guys don't think this is Apple's "video editing" laptop, then what is?

It's great that you were able to work that way, but a single firewire bus is an issue with professional editing. So is using firewire drives to edit professionally. It's been done, but shared bandwidth is problem.

Yep, an Express/34 firewire card creates a second bus just as a PC Card firewire card does the same.

Apple has never had a "video editing " laptop. How is that possible with 5400 rpm internal drives as standard, and lack of a second dedicated bus for firewire or SATA capture.

Your feature obviously must been shot in DV. That's great, and I hope you win, but I still believe you need a dedicated bus to capture and one for previews to monitor and deck.

=+=+=+=+=+=

best wishes

david

[Boyd Ostroff]

Originally Posted by David Saraceno

Your feature obviously must been shot in DV. That's great, and I hope you win, but I still believe you need a dedicated bus to capture and one for previews to monitor and deck.

To to be clear, the firewire limitations exists on all Macs. Every model (Dual G5, etc) - they all have a single firewire bus, even though there are multiple connectors. FW800 and FW400 share the same single bus. Now I'm not 100% certain of the quad, but I'm pretty sure it's that way also. Of course you can add firewire PCI cards to the desktop machines for additional ports. I added a FW PC card to my Powerbook for something like $30 or $40 and never saw any problems capturing and using an external drive while editing.

The G4 laptops are far from ideal for video editing, but they do work when used with an external drive and firewire PC card.

[David Saraceno]

Originally Posted by Boyd Ostroff

The G4 laptops are far from ideal for video editing, but they do work when used with an external drive and firewire PC card.

We're not disagreeing. I'd love to edit on a laptop, but I hate single bus anything's.

I just wish there was a second hard drive on a second SATA bus.

that would be nice.

[Edwin Huang]

Originally Posted by David Saraceno

There is S video out with the supplied adapter. Don't know the reason why a modem is essential for video editing, but may be I missed something. Resolution is minus 60 horizontally, so I don't see that as an issue.

However, I agree that no laptop is really a good solution for editing particularly on a single firewire bus laptop.

The supplied adapter is DVI ->VGA only. I suppose you can get a DVI to HDMI converter from a third party.

My point is, that apart from the processor boost and possibly updated video chip, the MacBook is worse for editing than the previous gen Powerbook.
But s-video out, an extra firebus port for non chainable FW devices, a PC card slot for your p2 card, 60 pixels (hey that's a really thin palette window or a dock!)- are important features for an editing notebook. Features sacrificed for a remote control. Also the DVD burner is slower and missing DL capability.

I adore my Al-book as a portable notebook for fieldwork. But there are too many things missing in the MacBook to make it an "upgrade" except for processing speed.

[Boyd Ostroff]

Originally Posted by Edwin Huang

My point is, that apart from the processor boost and possibly updated video chip, the MacBook is worse for editing than the previous gen Powerbook.

Well clearly you shouldn't buy one if that's the way you feel. But others may find that it suits their needs. And no doubt there will be something better coming out in the future.