Camera shootout... at DVinfo.net

Steven Thomas · January 5th, 2006, 12:03 PM

We need to get all 4 of these camera's together.

Canon XLH1
Panasonic HVX200
JVC HD100
Sony HVR-Z1

I believe this will happen real soon.
I'm sure each camera will excel in one area over the other.

I like the "bells and whistles" that the HVX offers, but in the end it's
always picture quality.

Granted there are some shots of the H1 that appear to have limited latitude, one thing for sure - it sure has one sharp image!

I don't believe the HVX will top the H1 in this area.

I'm worried about the noise test. Since I plan on doing a lot of low lighting situations, I'm looking for a camera that will offer low noise with reasonable
sensitivity. I know ideally 2/3" CCD camera's are my best bet, but the cost is of concern.

The H1 looks good in the noise department, but I wonder how much sensitivity is lost for a clean image? We will soon know.
It might be worth having the low noise image and just pump up the lighting when needed.

There has not been much talk about the HD100. But Stephen seems to be one of the largest supporters who as offered some decent footage examples.
I realize there has been a lot of past stigma about the CA and SSE issues.
I thought I read that Stephen said the SSE was solved. Is this a known fact? If so, where can I find info on this?

One thing for sure, The JVC does really pull off the filmic 24P look! I do see some motion artifacts; although it might of been the codec was stressed from the 35mm attachment example. I believe Barry pointed this out. Possible due to the addition grain from the added lens stressing the codec.

The JVC stuff looks fairly clean. I'm impressed overall. I do wish it was capable of 1080 though. It will be interesting on who has the best HDV codec, JVC or Canon?

We all know the Sony Z1 produces a sharp clean image. I just wish it has some decent 24P support over the cineframe option.

To tell you the truth, will all the cool options the HVX200 offers, I really would like to see the image qaulity make it the camera of choice. I believe this sentence sums up the HVX. I'm concerned about some of the recent images that show noise issues. Without controlled testing, we don't know.

thxs, Steve

Petr Marusek · January 5th, 2006, 12:42 PM

You should test Z1 at 1080i and at 25p (CF25), H1 at 1080i and 24p (F24)

In low light you should see to how low lighting level you could go with each camera for the same noise level. You may be able to increase gain a lot more on Z1 than on HD100 for the same noise level. You should use a light meter to see how much light each camera needs to achieve similar quality picture in low light.

It would be nice if you could compare the cameras also to CineAlta and/or Varicam, which are the industry standards.

Barry Green · January 5th, 2006, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petr Marusek

It would be nice if you could compare the cameras also to CineAlta and/or Varicam, which are the industry standards.

I'm trying to set this up for sometime next week. HVX/HD100/Z1/XLH1/VariCam/CineAlta, in a studio, shooting charts and also a couple of scenes, then reviewing the footage and having everyone there judging the footage while not knowing which camera it's from. Sort of like a blind taste test, so no bias allowed. Trying to get the studio sorted out now.

Brian Petersen · January 5th, 2006, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Green

I'm trying to set this up for sometime next week. HVX/HD100/Z1/XLH1/VariCam/CineAlta, in a studio, shooting charts and also a couple of scenes, then reviewing the footage and having everyone there judging the footage while not knowing which camera it's from. Sort of like a blind taste test, so no bias allowed. Trying to get the studio sorted out now.

Sounds fantastic! I'm sure you are planning on this, but please have some tests (charts and scenes) in each camera's 24(whatever) mode. Whichever camera I get I will be using it almost exclusively in 24p mode. Thanks. Look forward to the test.

EDIT: Oh. Looks like Petr was asking for the same thing.

Mathieu Ghekiere · January 5th, 2006, 02:42 PM

Barry, do you have acces to a Varicam or Cinealta?

Steven Thomas · January 5th, 2006, 02:52 PM

Great news Barry.

This could be real interesting to say the least!

Steve Roark · January 5th, 2006, 03:16 PM

I hope a couple of those scenes include medium close-ups of live people under flattering lighting...no offense to anyone, but a lot of the early posts I've seen have been natural lighting, and many times nature wasn't too kind. I personally want to see how close to photographic portraiture these babies can get.

Petr Marusek · January 5th, 2006, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Petersen

Sounds fantastic! I'm sure you are planning on this, but please have some tests (charts and scenes) in each camera's 24(whatever) mode.

Z1 should be tested in 25p; its 24p mode is useless.

Michael Pappas · January 5th, 2006, 03:32 PM

Hey Barry,

what week are we shooting for to do this full blown test?

Pappas

Arrfilms@hotmail.com
PappasArts & Arrfilms Main site
LINK to XLH1 frames etc: http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms

http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms
http://www.PappasArts.com
http://www.Myspace.com/

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Green

I'm trying to set this up for sometime next week. HVX/HD100/Z1/XLH1/VariCam/CineAlta, in a studio, shooting charts and also a couple of scenes, then reviewing the footage and having everyone there judging the footage while not knowing which camera it's from. Sort of like a blind taste test, so no bias allowed. Trying to get the studio sorted out now.

Shannon Rawls · January 5th, 2006, 04:42 PM

What does "LATTITUDE" mean?
What does "SENSITIVITY" mean?

define them both for me please.

- ShannonRawls.com

Barry Green · January 5th, 2006, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mathieu Ghekiere

Barry, do you have acces to a Varicam or Cinealta?

Potentially both.

Steven Thomas · January 5th, 2006, 05:01 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong but when referring to digital cameras, exposure latitude is essentially the camera's ability to allow an exceptable exposure over a given range (from under exposed to overexposed).

A camera with greater exposure lattitude will be less exceptable to blownout highlights.

Sensitivity with digital cameras is the the camera's ability to resolves images in response to light. Some cameras are more sensitive; therefore ,have a lower lux rating.

Steve

Barry Green · January 5th, 2006, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Roark

I hope a couple of those scenes include medium close-ups of live people under flattering lighting...no offense to anyone, but a lot of the early posts I've seen have been natural lighting, and many times nature wasn't too kind. I personally want to see how close to photographic portraiture these babies can get.

I have no intention of shooting handheld point-it-at-whatever footage; I expect that we will be putting them to the test in real situations, the kind of situations that someone shooting high-def would presumably be shooting on purpose.

I've said it before, I'll say it again -- all of them can look fantastic. All of them can be made to look lousy. What I want to see is the differences between them when shooting the same circumstances.

Barry Green · January 5th, 2006, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Pappas

Hey Barry,

what week are we shooting for to do this full blown test?

I am waiting on the studio to give me a date. Aiming for next week.

Michael Pappas · January 5th, 2006, 05:11 PM

Awesome Barry, looking forward to seeing you again and watching the tests.

Barry,
Did you see the post of the stedicam footage of a singer filmed with the HVX200 at DVXuser. I have yet to see the video, but the stills look very rich in color and nice.....

LINK TO XLH1 MATERIAL: http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms

Michael Pappas
Arrfilms@hotmail.com
PappasArts & Arrfilms Main site
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms
http://www.PappasArts.com
http://www.Myspace.com/

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Green

I am waiting on the studio to give me a date. Aiming for next week.

January 5th, 2006, 12:03 PM	#1
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Camera shootout... We need to get all 4 of these camera's together. Canon XLH1 Panasonic HVX200 JVC HD100 Sony HVR-Z1 I believe this will happen real soon. I'm sure each camera will excel in one area over the other. I like the "bells and whistles" that the HVX offers, but in the end it's always picture quality. Granted there are some shots of the H1 that appear to have limited latitude, one thing for sure - it sure has one sharp image! I don't believe the HVX will top the H1 in this area. I'm worried about the noise test. Since I plan on doing a lot of low lighting situations, I'm looking for a camera that will offer low noise with reasonable sensitivity. I know ideally 2/3" CCD camera's are my best bet, but the cost is of concern. The H1 looks good in the noise department, but I wonder how much sensitivity is lost for a clean image? We will soon know. It might be worth having the low noise image and just pump up the lighting when needed. There has not been much talk about the HD100. But Stephen seems to be one of the largest supporters who as offered some decent footage examples. I realize there has been a lot of past stigma about the CA and SSE issues. I thought I read that Stephen said the SSE was solved. Is this a known fact? If so, where can I find info on this? One thing for sure, The JVC does really pull off the filmic 24P look! I do see some motion artifacts; although it might of been the codec was stressed from the 35mm attachment example. I believe Barry pointed this out. Possible due to the addition grain from the added lens stressing the codec. The JVC stuff looks fairly clean. I'm impressed overall. I do wish it was capable of 1080 though. It will be interesting on who has the best HDV codec, JVC or Canon? We all know the Sony Z1 produces a sharp clean image. I just wish it has some decent 24P support over the cineframe option. To tell you the truth, will all the cool options the HVX200 offers, I really would like to see the image qaulity make it the camera of choice. I believe this sentence sums up the HVX. I'm concerned about some of the recent images that show noise issues. Without controlled testing, we don't know. thxs, Steve Last edited by Steven Thomas; January 5th, 2006 at 05:13 PM.

January 5th, 2006, 03:16 PM	#7
Steve Roark Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Vilseck, Germany Posts: 89	looking forward to it I hope a couple of those scenes include medium close-ups of live people under flattering lighting...no offense to anyone, but a lot of the early posts I've seen have been natural lighting, and many times nature wasn't too kind. I personally want to see how close to photographic portraiture these babies can get.

January 5th, 2006, 04:42 PM	#10
Shannon Rawls Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 853	What does "LATTITUDE" mean? What does "SENSITIVITY" mean? define them both for me please. - ShannonRawls.com __________________ Shannon W. Rawls ~ Motion Picture Producer & huge advocate of Digital Acquisition.

January 5th, 2006, 12:42 PM	#2
Petr Marusek Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 155	You should test Z1 at 1080i and at 25p (CF25), H1 at 1080i and 24p (F24) In low light you should see to how low lighting level you could go with each camera for the same noise level. You may be able to increase gain a lot more on Z1 than on HD100 for the same noise level. You should use a light meter to see how much light each camera needs to achieve similar quality picture in low light. It would be nice if you could compare the cameras also to CineAlta and/or Varicam, which are the industry standards.

January 5th, 2006, 02:42 PM	#5
Mathieu Ghekiere Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Belgium Posts: 2,195	Barry, do you have acces to a Varicam or Cinealta?

January 5th, 2006, 02:52 PM	#6
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Great news Barry. This could be real interesting to say the least!

January 5th, 2006, 05:01 PM	#12
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Correct me if I'm wrong but when referring to digital cameras, exposure latitude is essentially the camera's ability to allow an exceptable exposure over a given range (from under exposed to overexposed). A camera with greater exposure lattitude will be less exceptable to blownout highlights. Sensitivity with digital cameras is the the camera's ability to resolves images in response to light. Some cameras are more sensitive; therefore ,have a lower lux rating. Steve