HVX200 & Mac Combo - Who's Taking that Route?

Craig Seeman · January 6th, 2006, 01:39 PM

Have Dual2.3Ghz G5. FCP5. Flip4Mac Studio Pro. WMVHD should still look good at 6-8Mbps. That's what Microsoft has on their showcase site. I did a test encode at around 25Mbps and would post it if Chris (or someone) would give me a place to FTP it.

File would need some hefty WindowsXP WMP10 PC to play it but it might help the Windows users who can't handle MXF and don't have DVCProHD codec something to see.

At such high data rates I'm not sure if there's issues with the encode itself since it's beyond the data rate Flip4Mac may support but there's only one way to try it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lou Squitieri

Craig,
What kind of computer do you have, and which software are you using? I'm curious, because I didn't have as good of luck that I would have hoped with WMVHD;and I'd like to pass some of that info on to you; and believe me, I have tried every option known with this player.
I quess WMVHD is ok, but once you start squeezing the data, you'll take a hit in quality.

Craig Seeman · January 6th, 2006, 01:44 PM

Just thought I'd mention there's actually 2 markets to think about. In the VHS vs BetaMax ware, VHS won BUT Betacam (very much related to BetaMax) became a staple in broadcast.

We may see a situation where HD DVD wins in the homes but BluRay wins in the facilities. Of course such facilities will have to burn to HD DVD but BluRay may be the choice to archive. A 50 GB BluRay disk should hold more than a 30 minute BetaSP tape.

An ideal might actually be a battery powered 50GB BluRay recorder to back up shoot material for the HVX (Hmm sorta sounds like XDCAM but with a different MXF).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Kilgroe

Sony will release the PlayStation3 at < $500 in June/July and it will be a fully capable Blu-Ray player. They have also stated that Blu-Players and recorders will be priced to directly compete with HD-DVD.

Walter Graff · January 6th, 2006, 02:00 PM

Blueray has a problem coming out of the gate. The HD DVD machines they are introducing are starting at $500 and Blueray at $1600. Which one do you want to buy? And since HD DVD looks and feels like what we already have, it's an easier sell. But then again if companies start to distribute movies on bluray, it will have an edge. It's no different than original DVD. It was about nothing but distribution. When motion picture companies decided to make DVDs after the fourth reincarnation of DVD, it finally took off.

"Nice Bill - It will be interesting to see how rendering and editing will vary on the quad's and dual's. I've got a 6 month old dual 2.7 with 6 gig RAM and the GEForce 6800."

It does not matter if you have 2 gigs or 8 gigs of Ram FCP only uses 2. If you are running other programs while running FCP then more memory helps but*other than that it does nothing.

Shannon Rawls · January 6th, 2006, 02:03 PM

"HD DVD" has a better name. in my opinion

If they combine forces, they should call it "HDVD"

- shannon

Craig Seeman · January 6th, 2006, 02:15 PM

HD DVD might be easier to understand what it is but BluRay has a SciFi kewl factor.

I can imagine the first "consumer" burner from Sony being called something like: "BluRay LightSabre" and the high end "BluRay DeathRay"

Now what would that 13 year old computer geek that has a spare $2000 who wants to be cool, want to buy?

"I just bought my HD DVD burner" or "I just bought my BluRay DeathRay burner."

Of course the kiddie version would be the "BluRay HolySmokes!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shannon Rawls

"HD DVD" has a better name. in my opinion

If they combine forces, they should call it "HDVD"

- shannon

January 6th, 2006, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walter Graff

"Nice Bill - It will be interesting to see how rendering and editing will vary on the quad's and dual's. I've got a 6 month old dual 2.7 with 6 gig RAM and the GEForce 6800." {original post from Derek West}

It does not matter if you have 2 gigs or 8 gigs of Ram FCP only uses 2. If you are running other programs while running FCP then more memory helps but*other than that it does nothing.

Thanks Walter, that's good to know. I had actually upped the RAM for other programs that I also work in (Motion, After Effects, etc.). That's interesting that any FCP benefit would be capped at 2. Good to know to eliminate spending extra money on something not needed if you bought a Mac to only run FCP.

Walter Graff · January 6th, 2006, 02:29 PM

My favorite lines from the HVX manual on the page labeled "Nonlinear editing with the P2 card":

p82

"Operation is not guaranteed in Macintosh operating systems."
and
"Operation is not guaranteed in Windows operating systems."

So there you go. Actually it makes sense that it works with Mac because Mac went to bed with Panasonic a while back with the introduction of the Varicam so since this is also a DVCpro format, it didn't take much to make it work. As for Windows, since companies like Sony are competitors, expect them to drag their feet on helping any.

Barry Green · January 6th, 2006, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaku Ito

I don't think via firewire you can record streams directly from camara like you can in DV mode, can it? Don't think so.

You definitely can, as long as you're running a video capture application on the computer. It works exactly like DV does.

Quote:

or make the PowerBook as target mode (could be very dangerous, I had to format my iPod to make it work for HVX200, thus not working as iPod at this point) and make the HVX200 as the host and powerbook as a firewire drive.

Oh, I think that would probably be the worst thing someone could do... that would not be what you'd want to do. I'd expect the powerbook wouldn't even allow it, would it? Would the powerbook allow an external "format" command? I hope not... if someone does that, they'll probably be none too happy!

Barry Green · January 6th, 2006, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walter Graff

So there you go.

So there you go what?

The USB port is guaranteed to work with Windows systems, not guaranteed with Mac.

The Firewire port is guaranteed to work with mac systems, not guaranteed with Windows.

It has both. Each system has a guaranteed workflow.

Jim Giberti · January 6th, 2006, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Lane

Hi Derek,

- Apps and the OS live on the ultra-fast Raptor
- FC Project files, Thumbnail and Waveform cache on the 2nd Internal drive
- Video Render - external #1
- Audio Render - external #2
- A and B roll clips transferred from HVX - external #3
- Stills, sound files, scene extras, and 3D renders - external #4
- Final output for FCP and DVD SP 4 - external #5
(^_^)

Hi Robert,
Curious as to why you go to the trouble of separating your audio render, vidoe render, and footage onto 3 separate drives.

January 6th, 2006, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Lane

Here's my Mac setup: Quad-core G5 w/ 8GB RAM, 30" inch Apple Cinema Display....Kinemac for 3D rendered clips....To maximize throughput on the system here's how I've setup the drive assignments: Apps and the OS live on the ultra-fast Raptor...Final output for FCP and DVD SP 4 - external #5

Sounds like you have THE setup. Did you put it all together specifically for the HVX200 or were you looking at some other camera options as well? Have you been in the video industry for a while?

Nathan Brendan Masters · January 7th, 2006, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek West

Thanks for posting.

So far, these are the DVinfo members that are going to be using the HVX200/Mac combo from what I can tell from the posts in this thread, in addition to what I've gathered reading other threads. (this list may grow as I continue to edit it as long as the edit feature is an option) -

Kaku Ito - we all know he's the first one that got it ;)
Derek West
Edwin Hernandez
John Benton
Barry Green
Bill Sepaniak
Lou Squitieri
Jeff Kilgroe
Paul Lohbauer
Rob Katz
Robert Lane
Marty Hudzik
Lee Faulkner

Not so fast, you forgot me. I plan to use my G4 until the 486 G5s come out. If the 486 G5 laptop is produced Monday I may look at laptop editing, which I don't really like but it may have to do because I prefer my desktop to edit on. I'm really considering a G5 laptop as my main editing computer. Hell must have frozen over. Of course I don't plan to do anything else on it and probably won't get one until 2007. I plan to be doing DV and downconverted HDV for awhile before I grab an HVX unless I get a lot of money, in which I'll buy everything. My dream is to own the Canon H1 and the Panasonic HVX. I do believe I'll purchase my HVX when P2 cards come down or when the appropriate FireStore comes out.

-Nate

Nathan Brendan Masters · January 7th, 2006, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Green

Well, I'm definitely going to get one, I'm just waiting for MWSF to make sure I don't get stuck with an EOL product. I might just go for a 1gb Mini to tide me over until I see how the other platforms shake out, or maybe I'll just jump for the dual. But I'd hate to plunk down for something today and then find out next week that the Mini is now a quad G5 for $800, y'know? :)

Please write a book about it.

-Nate

Bill Southworth · January 7th, 2006, 08:03 AM

I'll also be using a Mac with FCP for editing with my HVX-200 when it arrives. I currently use a G4 laptop with 30" display for editing. I also have an IMac G5 with a terabyte of disk that I use for storing projects I'm not working on, and for rendering and compression with Squeeze.

I've ordered the dual 8GB P2 configuration from Great Northern Video in NH. Haven't decided yet with to go Cineporter or Firestore, but in the meantime I have an old IPod that I'll use, or I'll dump the cards direct to the laptop.

I plan to get a Mactel laptop as soon as a fast Powerbook version becomes available.

Rob McCardle · January 7th, 2006, 09:42 PM

ok Derek - I've made up my mind. So you can take me off the fence.

I'm going to rent the cam I need in the short to medium term.
Lotsa reasons for this approach - the main one being, that it's such a fast moving game atm. I figure that you need to be able recoup/amortise the cost of any of these cams with their accessories within a 6 month period - 1 year at the most.

What I'd love to see -
a larger HVX from Panny, bigger form factor and beefed up chips, lens options etc. Yes it would cost more <shrug> ... That I'd go for in a heartbeat.

From Sony - hmm, I doubt they will do anything more than what they've done with hdv - other than tweaking to the codec. They'll only sell it down into their lower end. Too much risk for them with their existing higher end cams.

Canon - well, wysiwyg. This is their top end. They'll improve it only when they absolutely have to.

JVC - are perfectly capable of offering a substantial improvement.

My $0.02c.

January 6th, 2006, 02:03 PM	#49
Shannon Rawls Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 853	"HD DVD" has a better name. in my opinion If they combine forces, they should call it "HDVD" - shannon __________________ Shannon W. Rawls ~ Motion Picture Producer & huge advocate of Digital Acquisition.

January 7th, 2006, 08:03 AM	#59
Bill Southworth Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 37	HVX and Mac I'll also be using a Mac with FCP for editing with my HVX-200 when it arrives. I currently use a G4 laptop with 30" display for editing. I also have an IMac G5 with a terabyte of disk that I use for storing projects I'm not working on, and for rendering and compression with Squeeze. I've ordered the dual 8GB P2 configuration from Great Northern Video in NH. Haven't decided yet with to go Cineporter or Firestore, but in the meantime I have an old IPod that I'll use, or I'll dump the cards direct to the laptop. I plan to get a Mactel laptop as soon as a fast Powerbook version becomes available.

January 6th, 2006, 02:00 PM	#48
Walter Graff Hellgate Pictures, Inc. Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New York, NY Posts: 124	Blueray has a problem coming out of the gate. The HD DVD machines they are introducing are starting at $500 and Blueray at $1600. Which one do you want to buy? And since HD DVD looks and feels like what we already have, it's an easier sell. But then again if companies start to distribute movies on bluray, it will have an edge. It's no different than original DVD. It was about nothing but distribution. When motion picture companies decided to make DVDs after the fourth reincarnation of DVD, it finally took off. "Nice Bill - It will be interesting to see how rendering and editing will vary on the quad's and dual's. I've got a 6 month old dual 2.7 with 6 gig RAM and the GEForce 6800." It does not matter if you have 2 gigs or 8 gigs of Ram FCP only uses 2. If you are running other programs while running FCP then more memory helps but*other than that it does nothing.

January 6th, 2006, 02:29 PM	#52
Walter Graff Hellgate Pictures, Inc. Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New York, NY Posts: 124	My favorite lines from the HVX manual on the page labeled "Nonlinear editing with the P2 card": p82 "Operation is not guaranteed in Macintosh operating systems." and "Operation is not guaranteed in Windows operating systems." So there you go. Actually it makes sense that it works with Mac because Mac went to bed with Panasonic a while back with the introduction of the Varicam so since this is also a DVCpro format, it didn't take much to make it work. As for Windows, since companies like Sony are competitors, expect them to drag their feet on helping any.

January 7th, 2006, 09:42 PM	#60
Rob McCardle Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 99	ok Derek - I've made up my mind. So you can take me off the fence. I'm going to rent the cam I need in the short to medium term. Lotsa reasons for this approach - the main one being, that it's such a fast moving game atm. I figure that you need to be able recoup/amortise the cost of any of these cams with their accessories within a 6 month period - 1 year at the most. What I'd love to see - a larger HVX from Panny, bigger form factor and beefed up chips, lens options etc. Yes it would cost more <shrug> ... That I'd go for in a heartbeat. From Sony - hmm, I doubt they will do anything more than what they've done with hdv - other than tweaking to the codec. They'll only sell it down into their lower end. Too much risk for them with their existing higher end cams. Canon - well, wysiwyg. This is their top end. They'll improve it only when they absolutely have to. JVC - are perfectly capable of offering a substantial improvement. My $0.02c.