Kaku, Shoot a Rez chart if you can!!! at DVinfo.net

Michael Pappas · January 2nd, 2006, 05:07 PM

Kaku, in this HV200 section a thread was started on filming res charts along with links to pdf res charts.

Could you please film like 2 or 3 seconds of the charts in:

1080P/24- normal sharpenss at 0

1080P/24- sharpenss at -5

720P/24- normal sharpenss at 0

720P/24- sharpenss at -5

All in 0db gain too!

Use the highest res chart as well, either the 1920x1080 or even the higher res one.

Thanks Kaku.

res chart thread....
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=57237

Robert Graf · January 2nd, 2006, 05:11 PM

If you can, it might be best to post some uncompressed still frames for each of these cases (if you do compress, chose a lossless format such as TIFF LZW, ZIP, etc; and if the files are still too big, then try using JPEG at 100% quality as a last resort). This way anyone can view the results (PCs or not).

Thanks a lot!
Bob

Michael Pappas · January 2nd, 2006, 05:16 PM

Raw clips first though. That's untouched and original. Once we have them we can make tiff's and etc for everyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Graf

If you can, it might be best to post some uncompressed still frames for each of these cases (if you do compress, chose a lossless format such as TIFF LZW, ZIP, etc; and if the files are still too big, then try using JPEG at 100% quality as a last resort). This way anyone can view the results (PCs or not).

Thanks a lot!
Bob

Robert Graf · January 2nd, 2006, 05:20 PM

Sounds good to me.

Michael's link didn't copy over correctly:
Here is the working one:

Link to the chart:
http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/~wes...3-reschart.pdf

Bob

Kaku Ito · January 2nd, 2006, 05:21 PM

I don't have a rez chart in hand. Can someone provide me a file to print, if printing is good enough? I have a color laser printer and Canon inkjet here.

Kaku Ito · January 2nd, 2006, 05:22 PM

opps, there you go.

Michael Pappas · January 2nd, 2006, 05:26 PM

Thanks Robert for catching that!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Graf

Sounds good to me.

Michael's link didn't copy over correctly:
Here is the working one:

http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/~wes...3-reschart.pdf

Bob

Robert Graf · January 2nd, 2006, 05:26 PM

Hi Kaku,

If possible, try to print the chart using black ink/toner only. This will give us the highest contrast. CMY (Cyan Magenta Yellow) combined alone gives only a muddish black color. Printing the chart on a photo-quality glossy paper will work the best if you have something like that around that you're willing to spare. Either way, after it's printed, you should be able to see black/white alterations in the 20 mark range (they're pretty small so you might need a magnifying glass ;-).

(insert) I printed this chart on 8.5x11in at 1200dpi, and it wasn't quite good enough. The 10 mark was the smallest line size that resolves clearly. 11x17in size paper will help if the printer rez can't get high enough for the smaller format.

Thanks a lot!
Bob

Les Dit · January 2nd, 2006, 07:51 PM

When shooting the res target, try to use flat lighting to avoid paper gloss. The white part of the paper should not be blown out in the video, a light gray shade would be much better. Black shouldn't clip either. Motion blur is a factor, use a tripod. The lens will preform better at higher f stops. The zoom amount will also be a factor, I'd try several to see where the sweet spot is.
But for now, we would love to see anything! But people might remember the first image for a long time , gotta be careful !

Oh, turn off all the edge sharpening you can, that can always be added later with higher quality than the real time one in the camera.

Can't wait to see what it looks like!

-Les

Brian Wengrofsky · January 2nd, 2006, 08:51 PM

Just to build on Les's suggestion: best way to light it is the way one shoots all flat artwork: 2 lights, one from either side at 45 deg angles. If you only have one light available, then you can get by with just one at a 45 deg angle. Great that you're doing all this!

Barry Green · January 2nd, 2006, 09:24 PM

If printing out a res chart, make sure you do it on a very high DPI printer, at least 1200 DPI. And frame the chart so that it fills the screen from arrow to arrow (charts usually have alignment arrows on them pointing to each edge) and get it as level as possible, with the camera as square to the chart as possible. And try to light it such that your iris is around f/4 to f/5.6, somewhere in that range.

Les Dit · January 3rd, 2006, 01:26 AM

I printed the chart on a mid grade printer, Epson c86, and it resolved the '10' resolution level with ease. I'm guessing that the HVX200 will be lucky to see details in the 8 level.
To any HVX200 users ( that are *allowed* to ) do this res test and post the result, I'd just make sure you can see the 10 level with a loupe before using the printout.
Perhaps we should invite others to test in the other manufacturers threads as well?
-Les

Kaku Ito · January 3rd, 2006, 02:44 AM

This is what I have to color/bw laser printing, so if I print the chart in A3 size, it must be okay then. I also have a B0 size Epson Maxart inkjet, so with that, we can even print it larger (then the lighting would harder). I'm equipped with a couple of decent lights by Lowel, so they should be good enough. I will make sure it gets lighted evenly.

Joseph H. Moore · January 3rd, 2006, 10:27 AM

Can't wait to see results!

Petr Marusek · January 3rd, 2006, 01:52 PM

It would be nice to know if it can beat Canon H1, which at 1080p recorded to tape resolves 800Hx650V lines and should have higher resolution via HDSDI.

The lens will be a factor in the resolution test. The lens resolving factor is dependent on iris opening (F-stop) and focal length. It would be nice to get frame grabs on the Panasonic at widest angle, longest telephoto, and couple shots in between these extremes, also at maximum iris opening and with the iris closed somewhat. At wide open iris and max. closed iris the resolution is likely to be lower.

Focus is extremely important. If you don't have high end HD monitor, let the camera auto focus, use focus assist, peaking, etc.

If at wide angle the chart does not fit the whole frame, use more than one chart; one in the middle, one a corner of the frame. The lens may not have a flat focus at wide angle so if the middle is in focus, the corner may not be, so two frame grabs with different focus settings may be needed. The results can be calculated from this setup even if the chart does not fit the frame properly.

Make sure the camera is on a tripod and use remote control.

The chrts need to be B/W and lit, hopefully softly, from sides so no reflections are created.

January 2nd, 2006, 05:07 PM	#1
Michael Pappas Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: California Posts: 667	Kaku, Shoot a Rez chart if you can!!! Kaku, in this HV200 section a thread was started on filming res charts along with links to pdf res charts. Could you please film like 2 or 3 seconds of the charts in: 1080P/24- normal sharpenss at 0 1080P/24- sharpenss at -5 720P/24- normal sharpenss at 0 720P/24- sharpenss at -5 All in 0db gain too! Use the highest res chart as well, either the 1920x1080 or even the higher res one. Thanks Kaku. res chart thread.... http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=57237

January 2nd, 2006, 05:20 PM	#4
Robert Graf Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Green Bay, Wisconsin Posts: 40	Sounds good to me. Michael's link didn't copy over correctly: Here is the working one: Link to the chart: http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/~wes...3-reschart.pdf Bob Last edited by Robert Graf; January 2nd, 2006 at 07:31 PM.

January 2nd, 2006, 07:51 PM	#9
Les Dit Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southern Cal-ee-for-Ni-ya Posts: 608	shooting a res target When shooting the res target, try to use flat lighting to avoid paper gloss. The white part of the paper should not be blown out in the video, a light gray shade would be much better. Black shouldn't clip either. Motion blur is a factor, use a tripod. The lens will preform better at higher f stops. The zoom amount will also be a factor, I'd try several to see where the sweet spot is. But for now, we would love to see anything! But people might remember the first image for a long time , gotta be careful ! Oh, turn off all the edge sharpening you can, that can always be added later with higher quality than the real time one in the camera. Can't wait to see what it looks like! -Les

January 2nd, 2006, 08:51 PM	#10
Brian Wengrofsky New Boot Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York City Posts: 8	Lighting res chart Just to build on Les's suggestion: best way to light it is the way one shoots all flat artwork: 2 lights, one from either side at 45 deg angles. If you only have one light available, then you can get by with just one at a 45 deg angle. Great that you're doing all this!

January 2nd, 2006, 05:11 PM	#2
Robert Graf Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Green Bay, Wisconsin Posts: 40	If you can, it might be best to post some uncompressed still frames for each of these cases (if you do compress, chose a lossless format such as TIFF LZW, ZIP, etc; and if the files are still too big, then try using JPEG at 100% quality as a last resort). This way anyone can view the results (PCs or not). Thanks a lot! Bob

January 2nd, 2006, 05:21 PM	#5
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	I don't have a rez chart in hand. Can someone provide me a file to print, if printing is good enough? I have a color laser printer and Canon inkjet here.

January 2nd, 2006, 05:22 PM	#6
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	opps, there you go.

January 2nd, 2006, 05:26 PM	#8
Robert Graf Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Green Bay, Wisconsin Posts: 40	Hi Kaku, If possible, try to print the chart using black ink/toner only. This will give us the highest contrast. CMY (Cyan Magenta Yellow) combined alone gives only a muddish black color. Printing the chart on a photo-quality glossy paper will work the best if you have something like that around that you're willing to spare. Either way, after it's printed, you should be able to see black/white alterations in the 20 mark range (they're pretty small so you might need a magnifying glass ;-). (insert) I printed this chart on 8.5x11in at 1200dpi, and it wasn't quite good enough. The 10 mark was the smallest line size that resolves clearly. 11x17in size paper will help if the printer rez can't get high enough for the smaller format. Thanks a lot! Bob

January 2nd, 2006, 09:24 PM	#11
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	If printing out a res chart, make sure you do it on a very high DPI printer, at least 1200 DPI. And frame the chart so that it fills the screen from arrow to arrow (charts usually have alignment arrows on them pointing to each edge) and get it as level as possible, with the camera as square to the chart as possible. And try to light it such that your iris is around f/4 to f/5.6, somewhere in that range.

January 3rd, 2006, 01:26 AM	#12
Les Dit Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southern Cal-ee-for-Ni-ya Posts: 608	I printed the chart on a mid grade printer, Epson c86, and it resolved the '10' resolution level with ease. I'm guessing that the HVX200 will be lucky to see details in the 8 level. To any HVX200 users ( that are allowed to ) do this res test and post the result, I'd just make sure you can see the 10 level with a loupe before using the printout. Perhaps we should invite others to test in the other manufacturers threads as well? -Les

January 3rd, 2006, 02:44 AM	#13
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	This is what I have to color/bw laser printing, so if I print the chart in A3 size, it must be okay then. I also have a B0 size Epson Maxart inkjet, so with that, we can even print it larger (then the lighting would harder). I'm equipped with a couple of decent lights by Lowel, so they should be good enough. I will make sure it gets lighted evenly.

January 3rd, 2006, 10:27 AM	#14
Joseph H. Moore Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 362	Can't wait to see results!

January 3rd, 2006, 01:52 PM	#15
Petr Marusek Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 155	It would be nice to know if it can beat Canon H1, which at 1080p recorded to tape resolves 800Hx650V lines and should have higher resolution via HDSDI. The lens will be a factor in the resolution test. The lens resolving factor is dependent on iris opening (F-stop) and focal length. It would be nice to get frame grabs on the Panasonic at widest angle, longest telephoto, and couple shots in between these extremes, also at maximum iris opening and with the iris closed somewhat. At wide open iris and max. closed iris the resolution is likely to be lower. Focus is extremely important. If you don't have high end HD monitor, let the camera auto focus, use focus assist, peaking, etc. If at wide angle the chart does not fit the whole frame, use more than one chart; one in the middle, one a corner of the frame. The lens may not have a flat focus at wide angle so if the middle is in focus, the corner may not be, so two frame grabs with different focus settings may be needed. The results can be calculated from this setup even if the chart does not fit the frame properly. Make sure the camera is on a tripod and use remote control. The chrts need to be B/W and lit, hopefully softly, from sides so no reflections are created.