4:4:4 analog out? at DVinfo.net

Eric James · January 2nd, 2006, 01:54 AM

Hey Guys,
Just curious if anyone knows the specs on the live analog output. I'm thinking of putting together a system with the new blackmagic card to capture uncompressed for in-studio greenscreen work.

Any and all info about this would be much appeciated.

Thanks,
Eric James

http://www.expertmagic.com

Jeff Kilgroe · January 2nd, 2006, 02:38 AM

Well, as you said, it's analog... Therefore, numbers like 4:4:4 don't apply. The HVX has a D4/component interface... I guess you can plan on the uncompressed digital equivalent being 4:2:2. You won't gain much in the way of color latitude out of the uncompressed interface, but you will circumvent all the compression artifacts/issues. It's still not raw video you get, still processed by the internals and you get all the color adjustments, edge "enhancements", etc...

With the exception of the various framerate options and true 24p available on the HVX, I would probably say that the XLH1 would be a better camera to chose for this type of application. With the XLH1's uncompressed output you get a native digital SDI interface (still 4:2:2), but you have the reality of interchangeable lenses with that camera system. Canon's 24F mode may give you the 24fps look you need if you don't shoot fast action (24F on the Canon is just in-camera deinterlacing taking place before the Digic chip works its magic on the video image).

Right tool for the right job and you'll have to determine that for yourself. For me, I would still chose the HVX200 since I won't be doing much (if any) direct capture from its component outputs. And the DVCPROHD video it records natively is superior to HDV in many ways. I also want the various frame rate options. The fixed lens on the HVX is my biggest complaint, but hopefully the G35 or other 35mm lens adapter will materialize soon and give us some alternative possibilities.

Kaku Ito · January 2nd, 2006, 02:39 AM

It's supposed to be a uncompressed analog component out.

I will try some thing with Jim, shoot uncompressed and compressed with green back with Reflecmedia soon.

Shannon Rawls · January 2nd, 2006, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Kilgroe

Canon's 24F mode may give you the 24fps look you need if you don't shoot fast action

Fast Action or Slow Action, 24f HD video via HD-SDI is as good as (or better) then anything else under $55,000.

- ShannonRawls.com

Eric James · January 2nd, 2006, 01:52 PM

Thanks for the replies guys :)

I've made the decision that motion control is a better use of my time and money than trying to get 4:4:4 to key from. I did some tests with DVCpro HD footage in shake and I was able to pull VERY good keys. I was suprised at how well the 4:2:2 keyed.

So 4:2:2 will have to do for now........ until RED!

Thanks,
Eric James

Graeme Nattress · January 2nd, 2006, 03:27 PM

If you're FCP based you can also try my G Chroma Sharpen filters in Film Effects which can really sharpen up the chroma, making 4:2:2 looking very much like 4:4:4 (which the HVX can't probably generate anyway due to it's pixelshift).

And yes, RED will help a lot for this. Bayer isn't perfect, but 4k bayer shrunk to HD would be practically perfect in all possible ways.

Graeme

Eric James · January 2nd, 2006, 10:54 PM

Hey Graeme,
I am FCP based. I don't see "G Chroma Sharpen" on your website. Are you talking about G Nicer?

Thanks,
Eric James

Eric James · January 2nd, 2006, 11:37 PM

Hey Graeme,
Alright so the price was right and I went ahead and purchased your filter set. All I can say is WOW.

The amount of control in film effects is just amazing for a $100 plugin.

I was seriously considering purchasing FinalTouch HD for my latest feature. I am not a professional grader so this was not something I was all to excited about diving in to. Your software makes the CC controls very very accessible. Just toss on Basic and it looks great but you really can go in and finesse the look quite a bit.

I also tried out the chroma filters and while they work just fine, they are overshadowed by the greatness of G film. One problem I have is that I don't want to blur all the chroma, just the channel I need to key from. In shake I do a conversion, a single channel blur, a sharpen, and a conversion back. This way I am only effecting the green channel. Is there anyway to do something similar with your filter? If not I am still a happy customer.

Thanks,
Eric James

Graeme Nattress · January 3rd, 2006, 01:56 AM

Video doesn't have a green channel as it's Y'CbCr, so the G Chroma Sharpen only affects the Cb and Cr, not the Y'. There are losses incurred going to RGB, so for chroma sharpening, I only do chroma. Indeed, as luma is mostly made up of G, blur / sharpening G is probably a bad idea as it will effect the luma of the image.

Try out G Chroma Sharpen (interlaced or progressive version) set it to smooth then sharpen 4:1:1 for DV, 4:2:2 for DV50/DVCproHD etc. and bump up the anti-alias control. Now reduce the sharpness a bit. Turn on one of the diagnostic modes that allows you to see the Cb or Cr channel before or after and see the difference!!!

G Nicer is for NTSC DV 4:1:1 only. G Chroma Sharpen works on everything.

Thanks for buying, that's most appreciated.

FT HD is great. I've got a set of plugins for it in the works, including GPU acccelerated versions of my chroma fixing tools and a really superb de-interlacer....

Graeme

January 2nd, 2006, 01:54 AM	#1
Eric James Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 126	4:4:4 analog out? Hey Guys, Just curious if anyone knows the specs on the live analog output. I'm thinking of putting together a system with the new blackmagic card to capture uncompressed for in-studio greenscreen work. Any and all info about this would be much appeciated. Thanks, Eric James http://www.expertmagic.com Last edited by Eric James; January 2nd, 2006 at 10:47 PM.

January 2nd, 2006, 02:38 AM	#2
Jeff Kilgroe Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Golden, CO Posts: 681	Well, as you said, it's analog... Therefore, numbers like 4:4:4 don't apply. The HVX has a D4/component interface... I guess you can plan on the uncompressed digital equivalent being 4:2:2. You won't gain much in the way of color latitude out of the uncompressed interface, but you will circumvent all the compression artifacts/issues. It's still not raw video you get, still processed by the internals and you get all the color adjustments, edge "enhancements", etc... With the exception of the various framerate options and true 24p available on the HVX, I would probably say that the XLH1 would be a better camera to chose for this type of application. With the XLH1's uncompressed output you get a native digital SDI interface (still 4:2:2), but you have the reality of interchangeable lenses with that camera system. Canon's 24F mode may give you the 24fps look you need if you don't shoot fast action (24F on the Canon is just in-camera deinterlacing taking place before the Digic chip works its magic on the video image). Right tool for the right job and you'll have to determine that for yourself. For me, I would still chose the HVX200 since I won't be doing much (if any) direct capture from its component outputs. And the DVCPROHD video it records natively is superior to HDV in many ways. I also want the various frame rate options. The fixed lens on the HVX is my biggest complaint, but hopefully the G35 or other 35mm lens adapter will materialize soon and give us some alternative possibilities. __________________ - Jeff Kilgroe - Applied Visual Technologies \| DarkScience - www.darkscience.com

January 2nd, 2006, 03:27 PM	#6
Graeme Nattress RED Problem Solver Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 1,365	If you're FCP based you can also try my G Chroma Sharpen filters in Film Effects which can really sharpen up the chroma, making 4:2:2 looking very much like 4:4:4 (which the HVX can't probably generate anyway due to it's pixelshift). And yes, RED will help a lot for this. Bayer isn't perfect, but 4k bayer shrunk to HD would be practically perfect in all possible ways. Graeme __________________ www.nattress.com - filters for FCP

January 3rd, 2006, 01:56 AM	#9
Graeme Nattress RED Problem Solver Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 1,365	Video doesn't have a green channel as it's Y'CbCr, so the G Chroma Sharpen only affects the Cb and Cr, not the Y'. There are losses incurred going to RGB, so for chroma sharpening, I only do chroma. Indeed, as luma is mostly made up of G, blur / sharpening G is probably a bad idea as it will effect the luma of the image. Try out G Chroma Sharpen (interlaced or progressive version) set it to smooth then sharpen 4:1:1 for DV, 4:2:2 for DV50/DVCproHD etc. and bump up the anti-alias control. Now reduce the sharpness a bit. Turn on one of the diagnostic modes that allows you to see the Cb or Cr channel before or after and see the difference!!! G Nicer is for NTSC DV 4:1:1 only. G Chroma Sharpen works on everything. Thanks for buying, that's most appreciated. FT HD is great. I've got a set of plugins for it in the works, including GPU acccelerated versions of my chroma fixing tools and a really superb de-interlacer.... Graeme __________________ www.nattress.com - filters for FCP

January 2nd, 2006, 02:39 AM	#3
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	It's supposed to be a uncompressed analog component out. I will try some thing with Jim, shoot uncompressed and compressed with green back with Reflecmedia soon.

January 2nd, 2006, 01:52 PM	#5
Eric James Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 126	Thanks for the replies guys :) I've made the decision that motion control is a better use of my time and money than trying to get 4:4:4 to key from. I did some tests with DVCpro HD footage in shake and I was able to pull VERY good keys. I was suprised at how well the 4:2:2 keyed. So 4:2:2 will have to do for now........ until RED! Thanks, Eric James

January 2nd, 2006, 10:54 PM	#7
Eric James Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 126	Hey Graeme, I am FCP based. I don't see "G Chroma Sharpen" on your website. Are you talking about G Nicer? Thanks, Eric James

January 2nd, 2006, 11:37 PM	#8
Eric James Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 126	Hey Graeme, Alright so the price was right and I went ahead and purchased your filter set. All I can say is WOW. The amount of control in film effects is just amazing for a $100 plugin. I was seriously considering purchasing FinalTouch HD for my latest feature. I am not a professional grader so this was not something I was all to excited about diving in to. Your software makes the CC controls very very accessible. Just toss on Basic and it looks great but you really can go in and finesse the look quite a bit. I also tried out the chroma filters and while they work just fine, they are overshadowed by the greatness of G film. One problem I have is that I don't want to blur all the chroma, just the channel I need to key from. In shake I do a conversion, a single channel blur, a sharpen, and a conversion back. This way I am only effecting the green channel. Is there anyway to do something similar with your filter? If not I am still a happy customer. Thanks, Eric James