Have to ask an 'obvious' question about the Tape/DV Recording at DVinfo.net

Shawn Alyasiri · December 21st, 2005, 09:30 AM

Hi. I was looking for mention of this, but I couldn't find it.

I'm quite excited about this camera, as we all are. Looking forward to larger P2 cards becoming available, as I do I lot of event work - so the Cineporter or the Focus drives will be immediately necessary. However, I'm always looking for a backup route (incase the hard drive footage becomes corrupted, etc), and I don't expect I can continuously hot swap cards in and out for an hour long shoot, depending on circumstances, the recording mode, etc).

So - with the built-in tape mechanism, if you're in HD mode, can you also record a downconverted version to miniDV tape (as you're recording on P2 & say a Cineporter)? My guess is no - but it would be incredible if you could, just so you'd know that no matter what, you still have a version of the event on tape (yes, SD rather than HD, but still something).

The way I read the specs, you can create a miniDV tape from HD recorded content on P2. Was hoping you could record an SD version on the tape (on-the-fly), as you're recording the event as well.

Looks like an amazing camera - I'm just worried about going out, and not coming back with any footage someday because of corruption/fragged drive, etc. That'd be a bad day, and something I'd expect could actually happen.

Thanks,

Shawn

Shannon Rawls · December 21st, 2005, 09:55 AM

GOOD QUESTION!

And if it CAN do that...that will be monumental! That's an INSTANT DOWNCONVERSION that is timecode accurate and ALL!

That would expedite the OFFLINE/ONLINE process by HOURS! I surely hope they implement this option in the cameras software.

OR BETTER YET.... Record DVCPRO-HD "and" REGULAR DV on the P2 Card simultaneously!

Time will tell.

- ShannonRawls.com

Peter Jefferson · December 21st, 2005, 10:20 AM

u know, it would be good to have this feature, but to be honest, i dont think Pana have thought about that.. from teh outset Pana seem a lil overconfident with the integrity of the storage media offered at this time..

i wouldnt like to speculate, however i dont think that this first release would have that feature.. most likely after afew firestores and P2 stores poo themselves (ive had 2 firestores fail on me, so the problem is not foreign to me) then we might see a firware upgrade with the HVX200b which offers this feture..

but for now, i honestly DONT think it will happen..

Earl Thurston · December 21st, 2005, 12:04 PM

From what I've heard so far, the HVX will can only make a down-converted tape afterwards from the P2 cards. This ability is confirmed. What I'm less sure about is whether it can also be done simultaneously while recording.

Barry Green · December 21st, 2005, 12:52 PM

It cannot be done while live recording. There's a "mode switch" on the camera to select your recording media -- either P2 or tape. Changing that switch requires a hard reboot of the system, and when in P2 mode the tape doesn't "exist" at all. The only way to use both at the same time is when doing the "dub" from the card to the tape.

Shawn Alyasiri · December 21st, 2005, 02:55 PM

Thanks for the clarification.

Sounds like I'm not alone - so maybe a future upgrade. Awesome camera specs though - a beautiful list to read.

I suppose on mission critical stuff, I could component into a small side deck, and burn a copy that way. Would be limited for moble stuff, but good for other work.

I have 5 firestores - the FS-1's would have corruption here and there that I could almost count on. The FS-4's have been refreshingly stable. However - I don't have the guts to just entrust a day's work (especially on something critical) to a hard drive alone, and 8gig P2's might not cover me on longer work - so you swap them, but that can get pricey too...

There will be ways... Once the 16, 32 & 64 P2 cards come out this won't ever be an issue.

Exciting time to be in all of this, every which way you look. NAB will be fun this year for sure...

I'm going to Vegas tomorrow just for the heck of it - I'll try to win enough $ to give you all a new P2 cam in time for Xmas - check under your tree Christmas morning.

Take care all,

Shawn

Kaku Ito · December 21st, 2005, 07:06 PM

My understanding from the new catalog I got that this feature is done NOT simultanuously, downconversion has to be made later, because they use the term "dub to the tape".

Edwin Hernandez · December 22nd, 2005, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Green

It cannot be done while live recording... The only way to use both at the same time is when doing the "dub" from the card to the tape.

Barry: What about carrying an external DV camcorder as a "portable recorder" and connect the HVX firewire jack to a camcorder firewire jack and record the signal in DV?

Will the conversion be done on the fly or is there a compatibility issue because the firewire signal will be HD on the HVX and DV on the portable camcorder? Or is it possible to downconvert the firewire out signal while recording?

Is it possible to record HD and monitor with S-VIDEO on a SD monitor, if so... then you may have your DV protection copy through an analog source recorded on a portable camcorder you may hang on your belt.

Barry Green · December 22nd, 2005, 03:37 PM

When in HD mode, the firewire output is HD. So attaching a DV camera to it wouldn't get you anywhere; you'd need to attach a DVCPRO-HD-understanding device to it.

Quote:

Is it possible to record HD and monitor with S-VIDEO on a SD monitor, if so... then you may have your DV protection copy through an analog source recorded on a portable camcorder you may hang on your belt.

Yes you can definitely do that. I've done it; HD gets downrezzed/converted to SD for output on the S-video port, and that can be captured live via the s-video input on another camera/deck.

Toke Lahti · December 23rd, 2005, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Green

When in HD mode, the firewire output is HD.

Didn't fx1/z1 have this ability also output dv from fw when recording to hdv?

Barry Green · December 23rd, 2005, 04:19 AM

Yes, the FX1 & Z1 can do that.

Mark Donnell · December 23rd, 2005, 09:33 PM

I don't know if this appropriate - if not someone can delete this post - but I just ordered some Panasonic mini-DV master tape (AY-DVM63MQ) from tapeandmedia.com at a sale price of $ 5.25 per tape in groups of five. It seems a good price - I thought others might be interested. I have bought from this company before with excellent results. I am in no way affiliated with this business.

Jeff Kilgroe · December 24th, 2005, 01:31 AM

I don't know if plugging other businesses here is acceptable or not, for some reason I don't think so. However, if that price includes shipping, then that seems like a pretty good deal. If you buy large quantities like 100 or more, then you should get a bit more of a price break from most vendors. If it doesn't include shipping, it's still not bad... Seems the going rate for these tapes is about $5.35 + shipping these days.

December 21st, 2005, 09:30 AM	#1
Shawn Alyasiri Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bloomington, IL Posts: 256	Have to ask an 'obvious' question about the Tape/DV Recording Hi. I was looking for mention of this, but I couldn't find it. I'm quite excited about this camera, as we all are. Looking forward to larger P2 cards becoming available, as I do I lot of event work - so the Cineporter or the Focus drives will be immediately necessary. However, I'm always looking for a backup route (incase the hard drive footage becomes corrupted, etc), and I don't expect I can continuously hot swap cards in and out for an hour long shoot, depending on circumstances, the recording mode, etc). So - with the built-in tape mechanism, if you're in HD mode, can you also record a downconverted version to miniDV tape (as you're recording on P2 & say a Cineporter)? My guess is no - but it would be incredible if you could, just so you'd know that no matter what, you still have a version of the event on tape (yes, SD rather than HD, but still something). The way I read the specs, you can create a miniDV tape from HD recorded content on P2. Was hoping you could record an SD version on the tape (on-the-fly), as you're recording the event as well. Looks like an amazing camera - I'm just worried about going out, and not coming back with any footage someday because of corruption/fragged drive, etc. That'd be a bad day, and something I'd expect could actually happen. Thanks, Shawn

December 21st, 2005, 09:55 AM	#2
Shannon Rawls Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 853	GOOD QUESTION! And if it CAN do that...that will be monumental! That's an INSTANT DOWNCONVERSION that is timecode accurate and ALL! That would expedite the OFFLINE/ONLINE process by HOURS! I surely hope they implement this option in the cameras software. OR BETTER YET.... Record DVCPRO-HD "and" REGULAR DV on the P2 Card simultaneously! Time will tell. - ShannonRawls.com __________________ Shannon W. Rawls ~ Motion Picture Producer & huge advocate of Digital Acquisition.

December 24th, 2005, 01:31 AM	#13
Jeff Kilgroe Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Golden, CO Posts: 681	I don't know if plugging other businesses here is acceptable or not, for some reason I don't think so. However, if that price includes shipping, then that seems like a pretty good deal. If you buy large quantities like 100 or more, then you should get a bit more of a price break from most vendors. If it doesn't include shipping, it's still not bad... Seems the going rate for these tapes is about $5.35 + shipping these days. __________________ - Jeff Kilgroe - Applied Visual Technologies \| DarkScience - www.darkscience.com

December 21st, 2005, 10:20 AM	#3
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	u know, it would be good to have this feature, but to be honest, i dont think Pana have thought about that.. from teh outset Pana seem a lil overconfident with the integrity of the storage media offered at this time.. i wouldnt like to speculate, however i dont think that this first release would have that feature.. most likely after afew firestores and P2 stores poo themselves (ive had 2 firestores fail on me, so the problem is not foreign to me) then we might see a firware upgrade with the HVX200b which offers this feture.. but for now, i honestly DONT think it will happen..

December 21st, 2005, 12:04 PM	#4
Earl Thurston Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Burnaby & Maple Ridge BC Posts: 289	From what I've heard so far, the HVX will can only make a down-converted tape afterwards from the P2 cards. This ability is confirmed. What I'm less sure about is whether it can also be done simultaneously while recording.

December 21st, 2005, 12:52 PM	#5
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	It cannot be done while live recording. There's a "mode switch" on the camera to select your recording media -- either P2 or tape. Changing that switch requires a hard reboot of the system, and when in P2 mode the tape doesn't "exist" at all. The only way to use both at the same time is when doing the "dub" from the card to the tape.

December 21st, 2005, 02:55 PM	#6
Shawn Alyasiri Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bloomington, IL Posts: 256	Thanks for the clarification. Sounds like I'm not alone - so maybe a future upgrade. Awesome camera specs though - a beautiful list to read. I suppose on mission critical stuff, I could component into a small side deck, and burn a copy that way. Would be limited for moble stuff, but good for other work. I have 5 firestores - the FS-1's would have corruption here and there that I could almost count on. The FS-4's have been refreshingly stable. However - I don't have the guts to just entrust a day's work (especially on something critical) to a hard drive alone, and 8gig P2's might not cover me on longer work - so you swap them, but that can get pricey too... There will be ways... Once the 16, 32 & 64 P2 cards come out this won't ever be an issue. Exciting time to be in all of this, every which way you look. NAB will be fun this year for sure... I'm going to Vegas tomorrow just for the heck of it - I'll try to win enough $ to give you all a new P2 cam in time for Xmas - check under your tree Christmas morning. Take care all, Shawn

December 21st, 2005, 07:06 PM	#7
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	My understanding from the new catalog I got that this feature is done NOT simultanuously, downconversion has to be made later, because they use the term "dub to the tape".

December 23rd, 2005, 04:19 AM	#11
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	Yes, the FX1 & Z1 can do that.

December 23rd, 2005, 09:33 PM	#12
Mark Donnell Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Silver City, NM Posts: 385	I don't know if this appropriate - if not someone can delete this post - but I just ordered some Panasonic mini-DV master tape (AY-DVM63MQ) from tapeandmedia.com at a sale price of $ 5.25 per tape in groups of five. It seems a good price - I thought others might be interested. I have bought from this company before with excellent results. I am in no way affiliated with this business.