Best editing platform for HVX? at DVinfo.net

Peter Richardson · November 10th, 2005, 02:07 PM

From what we know of P2 workflows, and how the various editing programs that will be supporting the format are going to handle it, I'm curious to get people's opinions on who they think has the best implementation and workflow for handling P2 HD material. One of Barry's posts from another thread prompted this question, when he was doing a run-down of different editors (Avid, FCP, Canopus, etc) and how they would interpret the footage (Avid natively, FCP reconforms to Quicktime etc.)

I'm really hoping this thread doesn't turn into a "you should use whichever editor you like" or simply a comparison of different platforms based on other factors. Specifically, I'm looking for who we think has the best workflow for P2 and HD, and not looking at other factors. I realize it may be a bit premature as the HVX isn't out, but P2 and HD certainly are, and all the major players seem to have presented their solutions for handling this camera, so perhaps we could base judgements off this.

Right now I'm cutting on an Avid Xpress Pro system (on a Mac, which isn't the best combination these days). So I'm anxious to switch over to FCP, but when Barry mentioned FCP's reconform to QT's, that gave me pause. So I'm wondering what everyone's planning on using, or what they think of the current offerings out there. Thanks!

Peter

Edit: I think another major factor I'd like to consider in the discussion is the ability to mix different formats in the same timeline (HDV, DVCProHD, SD material). I know Avid's Xpress Pro offering for the PC will have this capability. Will other editors, including FCP, also be able to do this?

David Andrews · November 11th, 2005, 08:06 AM

Provided you have the HD codec and P2 options installed, (sold as an option to those that need them), Edius will work with P2. My understanding is that you can use the Panasonic codec on the timeline or, alternatively, convert to the intermediate Canopus HQ codec at capture. The HQ codec will enable you to mix formats on the timeline.

I believe that Canopus will be at DVExpo West next month when more may be revealed.

Robert Mann Z. · November 11th, 2005, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Andrews

Provided you have the HD codec and P2 options installed, (sold as an option to those that need them), Edius will work with P2. My understanding is that you can use the Panasonic codec on the timeline or, alternatively, convert to the intermediate Canopus HQ codec at capture. The HQ codec will enable you to mix formats on the timeline.

I believe that Canopus will be at DVExpo West next month when more may be revealed.

+ you will need the varicam option to edit anything other then 29.97

edius...
1) you must buy a Canopus Codec Option $1000...
2) you must buy P2 Option $1,500
3) One free USB port for hardware key for P2 option
4) you must buy VARICAM Option $1,700
5) One free USB port for hardware key for varicam option

Damon Botsford · November 11th, 2005, 05:41 PM

Wouldn't it be neat if Canopus just bundled the whole damn thing together at a reasonable price? Kind of like a NX for HVX (or) NX for DVCPROHD package. Canopus real-time editing is huge, but I'm not so sure many people will be willing to shell out another $4000+ (NX + all options minus computer!) after purchasing the HVX.
I remember when the Canopus SP for HDV card came out. It was mega bucks! They promptly released the NX package for half the price and I guarantee to it sells much better. Who knows, maybe they have something in the works. Considering the huge buzz around a camera that hasn't even been released yet, it seems like it would be a good idea.

John Benton · November 11th, 2005, 08:30 PM

What about if one must use a Mac,
and the P2 card footage is transferred to an external Hard Drive and that is then plugged into your Mac.

Final Cut says it supports Native HD but from what I read everywhere it will only do this using a Quicktime wrapper
but the files don't have to be re digitized - will Final Cut simply not recognize them?

Am I wrong inassuming that the P2 > HD >plug into Computer will take care of the Ingestion of footage into Final Cut (or Avid ) on a Mac.

and I too wonder about the ability to Mix different footage 720p & 1080i

Thanks

Robert Mann Z. · November 11th, 2005, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damon Botsford

Wouldn't it be neat if Canopus just bundled the whole damn thing together at a reasonable price? .

they make to much money selling seperatly...ultimately they will get left behind, its because canopus does not understand its product in the US market at all...

the varicam option does support
720/23.976p over 59.94p
720/29.97p over 59.94p
720/59.94p
720/24p over 60p
720/25p over 60p
720/50p over 60p

but it costs a ludicris $1,700 plus a free usb port

and just to able to read p2 cards you need to spend $1,500 and have a free usb port...

so to edit hvx 24p material on edius softare only, like on a laptop you need to buy
edius $700
dvcpro codec pack $1,000
p2 option $1500
varicam option $1,700

thats $4,900....my advice is get fcp or an avid

David Andrews · November 12th, 2005, 05:48 AM

That is expensive - like most things HD. It will be interesting to see if and how they bundle the HD versions of Edius differently when the HVX appears.

Edwin Hernandez · November 12th, 2005, 09:26 AM

Hold on! Isn't it as simple as just plugging the camera to your MAC, transfer the files to another drive, then open FCP HD and import the files?

I already pre-ordered my HVX200, but I can still change to a SONY Z1 HDV if the HVX200 files need too much investment or time to edit on a single FCPHD solution with no extra cards.

-EDWIN

Steev Dinkins · November 12th, 2005, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwin Hernandez

Hold on! Isn't it as simple as just plugging the camera to your MAC, transfer the files to another drive, then open FCP HD and import the files?

On the Mac, it is that simple. If you have the HVX200 camera, a Mac, and FCP installed, the P2 card will show up as a mounted volume, and you can copy the files via drag and drop. Or in FCP, you can import selected clips (or all clips per card), so that FCP manages the files and where they are stored. All frame rates and sizes are reported to be supported, although I haven't read about 1080p anywhere yet. In time I'll be able to test for myself.

HVX200 and the Mac is a killer combo. Regarding a pro editing station, if you need real-time monitoring on an HDTV, you'll need something like the Kona LH or Kona 2 (starts at around $1500), an HDTV ($????), and plenty of hard drive space $???-$????.

Steve Collins · November 12th, 2005, 03:41 PM

Check out the Matrox Axio. Once they release the DVCPRO codec it will be one of the most powerful ways to edit HD for the money.

http://www.matrox.com/video/products/axio/home.cfm

http://tinyurl.com/8ta46

http://tinyurl.com/7m65h

http://tinyurl.com/b2q99

Robert Mann Z. · November 12th, 2005, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Collins

Check out the Matrox Axio. Once they release the DVCPRO codec it will be one of the most powerful ways to edit HD for the money.

the problem i have with axio besides the insane price tag, is that its hardware based, and that means i can no longer do any editing on my laptop, i do 30% of my work on the road...

as soon as the mactel powerbooks come out i'm going to pick up fcp which seems to have the best of both worlds...

Ronald Lee · November 13th, 2005, 12:02 AM

Interesting thread.

Suppose I was to buy a BRAND SPANKING NEW editing suite just for the HVX (assuming I have a lot of work to edit), if I was to get a P2 capable Mac and/or a Edius and/or a whatever then, what would be the all inclusive barebones price to get into the game, so the speak?

Steve Collins · November 13th, 2005, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Mann Z.

the problem i have with axio besides the insane price tag, is that its hardware based, and that means i can no longer do any editing on my laptop, i do 30% of my work on the road...

as soon as the mactel powerbooks come out i'm going to pick up fcp which seems to have the best of both worlds...

You can use the axio codec on any machine you just won't get any of the accelerated effects and abilities. Then once you have it edited the way you want it, say on your laptop you can bring it into axio and finish it.

Robert Mann Z. · November 13th, 2005, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Collins

You can use the axio codec on any machine you just won't get any of the accelerated effects and abilities. Then once you have it edited the way you want it, say on your laptop you can bring it into axio and finish it.

Steve do you have axio, can premiere edit dvcpro files with the axio codec on a laptop with any rt playback? for that matter can fcp on a laptop?

with the Edius you are also able to use proxy files so you can work with 1/4 of the bandwidth... can premiere or fcp 5 do this if anyone knows that would be a great help thanks...

Peter Richardson · November 13th, 2005, 01:23 PM

for that matter can fcp on a laptop?

Yes. Even on the relatively slow G4 Powerbooks, you can still edit 720P footage. That being said, obviously the number of realtime effects you can do is limited, but it can be done.

Does anyone know if FCP supports multiple formats (ie DVCProHD, HDV) in the same timeline like the Avid does?

Peter

November 10th, 2005, 02:07 PM	#1
Peter Richardson Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 608	Best editing platform for HVX? From what we know of P2 workflows, and how the various editing programs that will be supporting the format are going to handle it, I'm curious to get people's opinions on who they think has the best implementation and workflow for handling P2 HD material. One of Barry's posts from another thread prompted this question, when he was doing a run-down of different editors (Avid, FCP, Canopus, etc) and how they would interpret the footage (Avid natively, FCP reconforms to Quicktime etc.) I'm really hoping this thread doesn't turn into a "you should use whichever editor you like" or simply a comparison of different platforms based on other factors. Specifically, I'm looking for who we think has the best workflow for P2 and HD, and not looking at other factors. I realize it may be a bit premature as the HVX isn't out, but P2 and HD certainly are, and all the major players seem to have presented their solutions for handling this camera, so perhaps we could base judgements off this. Right now I'm cutting on an Avid Xpress Pro system (on a Mac, which isn't the best combination these days). So I'm anxious to switch over to FCP, but when Barry mentioned FCP's reconform to QT's, that gave me pause. So I'm wondering what everyone's planning on using, or what they think of the current offerings out there. Thanks! Peter Edit: I think another major factor I'd like to consider in the discussion is the ability to mix different formats in the same timeline (HDV, DVCProHD, SD material). I know Avid's Xpress Pro offering for the PC will have this capability. Will other editors, including FCP, also be able to do this?

November 11th, 2005, 08:06 AM	#2
David Andrews Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 131	Provided you have the HD codec and P2 options installed, (sold as an option to those that need them), Edius will work with P2. My understanding is that you can use the Panasonic codec on the timeline or, alternatively, convert to the intermediate Canopus HQ codec at capture. The HQ codec will enable you to mix formats on the timeline. I believe that Canopus will be at DVExpo West next month when more may be revealed. Last edited by David Andrews; November 11th, 2005 at 08:47 AM.

November 11th, 2005, 05:41 PM	#4
Damon Botsford Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Thousand Oaks, CA Posts: 39	Wouldn't it be neat if Canopus just bundled the whole damn thing together at a reasonable price? Kind of like a NX for HVX (or) NX for DVCPROHD package. Canopus real-time editing is huge, but I'm not so sure many people will be willing to shell out another $4000+ (NX + all options minus computer!) after purchasing the HVX. I remember when the Canopus SP for HDV card came out. It was mega bucks! They promptly released the NX package for half the price and I guarantee to it sells much better. Who knows, maybe they have something in the works. Considering the huge buzz around a camera that hasn't even been released yet, it seems like it would be a good idea.

November 11th, 2005, 08:30 PM	#5
John Benton Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 658	What about if one must use a Mac, and the P2 card footage is transferred to an external Hard Drive and that is then plugged into your Mac. Final Cut says it supports Native HD but from what I read everywhere it will only do this using a Quicktime wrapper but the files don't have to be re digitized - will Final Cut simply not recognize them? Am I wrong inassuming that the P2 > HD >plug into Computer will take care of the Ingestion of footage into Final Cut (or Avid ) on a Mac. and I too wonder about the ability to Mix different footage 720p & 1080i Thanks

November 12th, 2005, 05:48 AM	#7
David Andrews Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 131	That is expensive - like most things HD. It will be interesting to see if and how they bundle the HD versions of Edius differently when the HVX appears.

November 12th, 2005, 09:26 AM	#8
Edwin Hernandez Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Panama City, Panama Posts: 162	Hold on! Isn't it as simple as just plugging the camera to your MAC, transfer the files to another drive, then open FCP HD and import the files? I already pre-ordered my HVX200, but I can still change to a SONY Z1 HDV if the HVX200 files need too much investment or time to edit on a single FCPHD solution with no extra cards. -EDWIN

November 12th, 2005, 03:41 PM	#10
Steve Collins New Boot Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 18	Check out the Matrox Axio. Once they release the DVCPRO codec it will be one of the most powerful ways to edit HD for the money. http://www.matrox.com/video/products/axio/home.cfm http://tinyurl.com/8ta46 http://tinyurl.com/7m65h http://tinyurl.com/b2q99

November 13th, 2005, 12:02 AM	#12
Ronald Lee Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 435	Interesting thread. Suppose I was to buy a BRAND SPANKING NEW editing suite just for the HVX (assuming I have a lot of work to edit), if I was to get a P2 capable Mac and/or a Edius and/or a whatever then, what would be the all inclusive barebones price to get into the game, so the speak?

November 13th, 2005, 01:23 PM	#15
Peter Richardson Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 608	for that matter can fcp on a laptop? Yes. Even on the relatively slow G4 Powerbooks, you can still edit 720P footage. That being said, obviously the number of realtime effects you can do is limited, but it can be done. Does anyone know if FCP supports multiple formats (ie DVCProHD, HDV) in the same timeline like the Avid does? Peter