Anticipation for New Version of HPX370

[Haitham Lawati]

It has been three years since Panasonic introduced AG-HPX370 shoulder-mounted camera which is considered to be an update version for its predecessor HPX300. Do you think that Panasonic will update the current HPX370 and release a newer version within this year or probably next year? Are there any rumors out there?

[Glen Vandermolen]

I haven't heard anything, but I'm hardly a Panasonic insider.

But it's an interesting concept. What features would an HPX370+ have?

I can see it as basically an HPX600 with the 1/3" 3MOS chipset. Use the 600's lightweight body and EVF, and make it upgradeable to AVC-Ultra. That means 1080/60P. Wifi capable. Maybe add micro P2 card slots?

It'd be really nice if Panny introduced a 1/2" CMOS chip, to better compete with Sony's XDCAM cameras, but they've never had 1/2" chips before. But then, neither did Sony before the EX1. The 1/2" Panny could use the same 1/2" lenses the Sonys use. Think of it as Panasonic's version of the PMW320, but with a lot better features and codec. At a competitive price, Panasonic could have a real winner on their hands. it could be real competition to the PMW300 and the PMW320 successor, if Sony makes one.

Oh well, wishful thinking.

[Tim Polster]

Both Sony and Panasonic had 1/2" chip cameras in the DV days. DSR-300 and DVC-200.

I would have liked to see a 1/2" line from Panasonic a while ago, but I do not think they will go there. Imho, Panasonic needs to get a 50mbps long GOP codec in use ASAP as the "film" crowd that made the DVX-100 so popular has moved to large sensor cameras and what is left is the poor old video schlubs.

100mbps is just too much data for "normal" video work. I have been working with the Nanoflash at 50mbps for many years now and it is a great balance between file size and image quality. So in my mind, that would be an upgrade right there. Plus get over P2 pricing. It has its place but not for the independent owner operator in the day and age where CF cards are as fast as internal hard drives...

[Glen Vandermolen]

AFAIK, Panasonic has never had a 1/2" CMOS chip, unless they have one in a consumer model? The HC-V720 has a 1/2.33" CMOS chip.

One of the codecs in AVC-Ultra is the AVC-LongG G50 50mbps, 10-bit, 4:2:2 inter-frame codec. Hopefully an HPX370 replacement will have AVC-Ultra.

[David Heath]

Originally Posted by Tim Polster

100mbps is just too much data for "normal" video work. I have been working with the Nanoflash at 50mbps for many years now and it is a great balance between file size and image quality.

Originally Posted by Glen Vandermolen

One of the codecs in AVC-Ultra is the AVC-LongG G50 50mbps, 10-bit, 4:2:2 inter-frame codec.

The factors involved in codec choice are file size, quality and processing complexity. You can trade one off against either of the other two.

Generally, long GOP will be more efficient than I-frame only (but be more difficult to process), and a more complex system like AVC-Intra will be more efficient than MPEG2 (but be more difficult to process). "More efficient" means same quality at a lower bitrate - but at the expense of needing more computer power to deal with. Hence "more efficient" may be a good thing - but not necessarily.

And that's likely to be the problem with AVC-Ultra long-GOP. Yes, it will have advantages over XDCAM422 such as 10 bit working etc - but expect it to come at a price in terms of needing a much more powerful computer to deal with it.

Personally, I think that XDCAM422 hits a sweet spot at the moment in the quality/file size/complexity compromise. AVC-long-GOP may provide higher quality for the same file size - but don't expect the same performance from any given computer system

[Tim Polster]

Yes. Not to hammer on this but Panasonic offers the exremes right now, AVC-Intra or AVCHD. mpeg-2 4:2:2 50mbps falls right in the middle of these two. I do not want to use either of the Panasonic choices do to files being too large (and cost of media) or files being too compressed for secondary color correction.

Panasonic is a great engineering company. I just think they have sort of forgotten about the middle and let AVCHD be for all that do not want AVC-Intra for a long time now. In my mind, AVCHD is a prosumer format. Memory is cheap and fast these days. No reason at all to aquire in 24mbps 4:2:0 But, they do not even offer AVCHD on their P2 cameras. No way to record for three hours without spending a ton on memory. They just kind of lost me over the past 4-5 years.

[David Heath]

Originally Posted by Tim Polster

In my mind, AVCHD is a prosumer format. Memory is cheap and fast these days. No reason at all to aquire in 24mbps 4:2:0

Pretty well all engineering is a series of compromises, and IMO the problem AVC-HD faced was that the main reasoning behind it's development went away before it really came off the drawing board.

When conceived, it was seen as necessary to develop a system to record decent quality HD to consumer grade memory cards. At the time, that meant high and efficient compression - AVC-HD.

But solid state memory technology improved so rapidly that by the time AVC-HD started to be implemented, cards had improved to the state where 35Mbs XDCAM could be reliably recorded to an SDHC card. At that point, why bother with 24Mbs AVC-HD? A somewhat smaller file size, but quality not really up to XDCAM and far more difficult to edit. What was the point?

Personally, I'd call AVC-HD more suited to consumer use than prosumer (at the lower bitrates). For prosumer, better to use 35Mbs MPEG2 directly to SDHC, like the JVC cameras do.