Major advantage of the HVX200?

Federico Martini Crotti · September 22nd, 2005, 08:25 AM

Won't happen, if the data's uncompressed. You can record it to disk, but it won't be reasonably priced or portable, it'd be about $15,000worth of a desktop tower with an 8-hard-disk RAID.[/QUOTE]

This is what I don't understand. If the HVX writes DVCproHD to flash cards (P2s) why can't it do it to a big hard disk? 100GB will always give you more air than 8GB when you are shooting.

Federico Martini Crotti · September 22nd, 2005, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaime Valles

P2 is NOT the only way of recording HD on the HVX. You can get a Firestore hard disk for "less than $2000", making the grand total less than $8000 for full-out DVCProHD 1080/24p 4:2:2 at 1hr 30min at a time. The HVX + Firestore cost LESS than the stock XL H1.

To me, for independent filmmaking, the HVX + Firestore is much more bang for your buck.

Jaime,
is this a fact? How do you know?

Jacques Mersereau · September 22nd, 2005, 09:32 AM

What has been confirmed is that Focus Enhancements, the folks who
make the DV Firestore solution are WORKING on it. A solution
that can record 100mbps has *not* been delivered and is not due
(to be shown or delivered, who knows?) until NAB in April.

Matt Irwin · September 22nd, 2005, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Federico Martini Crotti

This is what I don't understand. If the HVX writes DVCproHD to flash cards (P2s) why can't it do it to a big hard disk? 100GB will always give you more air than 8GB when you are shooting.

Yeah I've found that odd as well. It couldn't be a question of data rates through the firewire port... Maybe it has something to do with the camera's internal "workflow" with respect to compressing the footage to the p2 card.

A colleague of mine was able to attend NAB, and he was telling me how the P2 slots in the HVX were designed to be modular in that other devices could be made into a p2 form (like an RF transmitter). If that's true, wouldn't it be possible to make a p2-to-firewire(400/800) adapter? You know, like a card with a wire coming out the back? Or for that matter, maybe SDI...

Federico Martini Crotti · September 22nd, 2005, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacques Mersereau

What has been confirmed is that Focus Enhancements, the folks who
make the DV Firestore solution are WORKING on it. A solution
that can record 100mbps has *not* been delivered and is not due
(to be shown or delivered, who knows?) until NAB in April.

very good to hear. thanks.

Federico Martini Crotti · September 22nd, 2005, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Irwin

A colleague of mine was able to attend NAB, and he was telling me how the P2 slots in the HVX were designed to be modular in that other devices could be made into a p2 form (like an RF transmitter). If that's true, wouldn't it be possible to make a p2-to-firewire(400/800) adapter? You know, like a card with a wire coming out the back? Or for that matter, maybe SDI...

The P2 is a PCMCIA card afterall. I use a PCMCIA card in my PowerBook that allows 2 more FireWire ports.
FW800 or SDI on the HVX to get DVCproHD out? Would be just dandy.
Might Panasonic find this a threat to selling lots of P2 cards?

Jon Miova · September 22nd, 2005, 02:51 PM

Panasonic is a Business (read: must make money) and i think there is a limit of what they are willing to do for low-budget users.

And this limit is: competition.

For now, the HVX is quite alone. The Canon H1 is 3000$ more.

However, i don't know what "street price" would be for both

Jaime Valles · September 22nd, 2005, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Federico Martini Crotti

Jaime,
is this a fact? How do you know?

Here's the press release:

http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release...5565&tsource=3

Federico Martini Crotti · September 22nd, 2005, 05:00 PM

Perfect. That's it. Seems like THE way to go to me. It will avoid running back and forth from camera to disks all day long.

Jan Crittenden Livingston · September 23rd, 2005, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Federico Martini Crotti

Might Panasonic find this a threat to selling lots of P2 cards?

We are interested in selling cameras, the P2 cards are only one way to record with this camera. You can record out the firewire port to your computer in a "Capture Now" scenario or you can record to the upcoming firestore, FS-100, for 100 GBs of storage.

As far as it not being switchable between PAL and NTSC, there are 27 formats in the camera that would have to be redesigned to switch to 24 formats in the PAL camera due to frequencies and format adoption, ie 1080/50i-720/50P. Not to say that it couldn't be done but I am not willing to wait another 2 years while they figure out how.

I mean really, we, the figurative we, have been doing 24P/25P for as long as I can remember and interlace before that. Many of the DV/DVCAM movies that were released here not that long ago were all done in PAL, so what is the big deal. If that is what you need to do then do it. Willam Wenders, Land of Plenty released here, US, looked marvelous, shot on 25P dropped to 24P. You all make it sound as if it doen't happen in the camera it is not good. Think again.

Best,

Jan

Federico Martini Crotti · September 23rd, 2005, 10:45 AM

We've been always trying to imitate film with video. Now that it's possible, I would always shoot 24p as if it was film, edit and care about PAL-NTSC when its time to deliver master copies, not before.

Hank Schnedl · September 23rd, 2005, 12:44 PM

I own a xl-2 camera and as a reply to the starting- topic I have to say that filming with the standart zoom objective and the standart viefinder is not really possible, becouse you can´t get focus "in time".

If you want to film in a more professional way you have to get the manual zoom objective and the black and white viefinder (for the xl-2).

I think, as I have shot footage on the dx100 also, the greatest advantage of the new hvx200 is the manual zoom.

And in case of the new XLh1, where, as far as I can see, the same zoom lens as on the xl2 is used, you have to extra invest for an manual zoom lens (around 2000 $).

(But on the other hand, the hvx200 can not be upgraded with an black and white viewfinder.)

The only advantage of the 20x Original Zoom Objective is (in my oppinion):
I get a good DOF by zooming. And the 20x Zoom is a good tool for that (on the xl-2).

John M Burkhart · September 23rd, 2005, 10:57 PM

I think the major advantage of the HVX is the codec. Most people are really excited about the DVCPRO / DVCPRO HD codecs that this camera records to.

I think everyone on this board agrees that these codecs are superior to the HDV codecs in just about every bench mark (except for file size).

But the question is, how much better? The CCD's, The DSP, the lens, all have their parts to play in the final image, the codec is just one part.

I've cut two shows with HDV footage from the Sony Z1, and I agree with adam wilt that it "looks better than it has any right to."

It's like trying to tell the difference between a photo comressed in .jpg or .png formats. One is better, but can your eye really see the difference?

Both formats are compressed video, and while I believe that DVCPRO HD is a better codec, I will have to wait for this camera to be released and put through it's paces before I can say that it produces a better IMAGE.

David Slingerland · September 24th, 2005, 03:20 PM

When I read the specs Panasonic is saying : for extended on the spot recording, the P2 card with recorded data can be inserted into the AJPSC060G 'P2 store' external hard drive...which holds as much as 15 4-gb P2 cards
I think that's were you can leave all your data for storage...during shooting.

Bogdan Apetri · September 25th, 2005, 10:54 AM

I think the AJPSC060G 'P2 store' external hard drive works only with PCs and not MACs. Am I right?

September 22nd, 2005, 09:32 AM	#18
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	What has been confirmed is that Focus Enhancements, the folks who make the DV Firestore solution are WORKING on it. A solution that can record 100mbps has not been delivered and is not due (to be shown or delivered, who knows?) until NAB in April. __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager

September 22nd, 2005, 02:51 PM	#22
Jon Miova Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 47	- Panasonic is a Business (read: must make money) and i think there is a limit of what they are willing to do for low-budget users. And this limit is: competition. For now, the HVX is quite alone. The Canon H1 is 3000$ more. However, i don't know what "street price" would be for both

September 24th, 2005, 03:20 PM	#29
David Slingerland Major Player Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Soest ,Holland Posts: 307	When I read the specs Panasonic is saying : for extended on the spot recording, the P2 card with recorded data can be inserted into the AJPSC060G 'P2 store' external hard drive...which holds as much as 15 4-gb P2 cards I think that's were you can leave all your data for storage...during shooting. __________________ D.Slingerland director/cameraman http://www.slingerlandproductions.nl

September 22nd, 2005, 08:25 AM	#16
Federico Martini Crotti Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Uruguay Posts: 57	Won't happen, if the data's uncompressed. You can record it to disk, but it won't be reasonably priced or portable, it'd be about $15,000worth of a desktop tower with an 8-hard-disk RAID.[/QUOTE] This is what I don't understand. If the HVX writes DVCproHD to flash cards (P2s) why can't it do it to a big hard disk? 100GB will always give you more air than 8GB when you are shooting.

September 22nd, 2005, 05:00 PM	#24
Federico Martini Crotti Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Uruguay Posts: 57	Perfect. That's it. Seems like THE way to go to me. It will avoid running back and forth from camera to disks all day long.

September 23rd, 2005, 10:45 AM	#26
Federico Martini Crotti Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Uruguay Posts: 57	We've been always trying to imitate film with video. Now that it's possible, I would always shoot 24p as if it was film, edit and care about PAL-NTSC when its time to deliver master copies, not before.

September 23rd, 2005, 12:44 PM	#27
Hank Schnedl New Boot Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 10	I own a xl-2 camera and as a reply to the starting- topic I have to say that filming with the standart zoom objective and the standart viefinder is not really possible, becouse you can´t get focus "in time". If you want to film in a more professional way you have to get the manual zoom objective and the black and white viefinder (for the xl-2). I think, as I have shot footage on the dx100 also, the greatest advantage of the new hvx200 is the manual zoom. And in case of the new XLh1, where, as far as I can see, the same zoom lens as on the xl2 is used, you have to extra invest for an manual zoom lens (around 2000 $). (But on the other hand, the hvx200 can not be upgraded with an black and white viewfinder.) The only advantage of the 20x Original Zoom Objective is (in my oppinion): I get a good DOF by zooming. And the 20x Zoom is a good tool for that (on the xl-2).

September 23rd, 2005, 10:57 PM	#28
John M Burkhart Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 97	I think the major advantage of the HVX is the codec. Most people are really excited about the DVCPRO / DVCPRO HD codecs that this camera records to. I think everyone on this board agrees that these codecs are superior to the HDV codecs in just about every bench mark (except for file size). But the question is, how much better? The CCD's, The DSP, the lens, all have their parts to play in the final image, the codec is just one part. I've cut two shows with HDV footage from the Sony Z1, and I agree with adam wilt that it "looks better than it has any right to." It's like trying to tell the difference between a photo comressed in .jpg or .png formats. One is better, but can your eye really see the difference? Both formats are compressed video, and while I believe that DVCPRO HD is a better codec, I will have to wait for this camera to be released and put through it's paces before I can say that it produces a better IMAGE.

September 25th, 2005, 10:54 AM	#30
Bogdan Apetri Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: New York, USA Posts: 117	I think the AJPSC060G 'P2 store' external hard drive works only with PCs and not MACs. Am I right?