XF300's new competitor at DVinfo.net

Glen Vandermolen · April 11th, 2011, 06:45 AM

It looks like Panasonic is releasing a real competitor to the XF300/305.

http://pro-av.panasonic.net/en/sales.../ag-hpx250.pdf

Steve Maller · April 11th, 2011, 08:39 AM

Sadly, it seems they're still using proprietary P2 cards. And it's "scheduled for release in Autumn 2011".

Otherwise, it looks interesting.

Glen Vandermolen · April 11th, 2011, 09:10 AM

I've worked with P2 and it's a very good, very reliable media system. Pricey, but the costs have come down a lot lately.

Dom Stevenson · April 11th, 2011, 09:40 AM

They have, but they are still overpriced for what they are IMO. The other issue is that many will want to record to AVC Intra at 100 mbs so even though the cards are getting cheaper, they still work out expensive per minute.

I like CF cards myself. Robust, decent size etc. I don't like those tiny/fiddly SDHC things.

No doubt the new Panny will be excellent if you've already invested in the P2 media, otherwise its still an expensive system compared with the competition. The AVCHD version will be a good buy for those who can live without the superior codec.

Philip Lipetz · April 11th, 2011, 09:41 AM

Don't like P2, the AC160 looks like it is an AVCCAM version of the HPX250 recording to more standard media. The AC130 gives up audio quality, HDSDI outputs, and interchangeability between NTSC and European standards.

Glen Vandermolen · April 11th, 2011, 09:49 AM

I had an HPX500 before I got my XF305, and I still have the P2 cards. This camera is interesting to me because of the AVC-i codec. I don't know what the quality of the lens will be, but it had better be really, really good to match the XF's.
I still like the form factor of the XF better. The 4" monitor's ability to switch to either side is a great feature, one that's come in handy more than once.

Simon Wood · April 11th, 2011, 09:50 AM

The quality of XF300 is the sum of its 2 parts - the codec and the lens. It will be interesting to see if Panny can match the quality of the Canon lens (in the photos it even has 'canon-esque' red stripe. Is it going to be a Leica lens?

Glen just said the same thing while I was writing this...

Tim Polster · April 11th, 2011, 09:50 AM

It will be interesting to see the XF300 vs the HPX-250 as they both have a good codec option and identical chipset specs. If the HPX-250 has better light sensitivity then Panasonic will have an edge.

Glen Vandermolen · April 11th, 2011, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Polster

It will be interesting to see the XF300 vs the HPX-250 as they both have a good codec option and identical chipset specs. If the HPX-250 has better light sensitivity then Panasonic will have an edge.

Panasonic claims it will be very good in low light. I guess this is based on the HPX370. I wonder if it's the exact same chipset?

Ron Wilk · April 11th, 2011, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glen Vandermolen

I had an HPX500 before I got my XF305, and I still have the P2 cards. This camera is interesting to me because of the AVC-i codec. I don't know what the quality of the lens will be, but it had better be really, really good to match the XF's.
I still like the form factor of the XF better. The 4" monitor's ability to switch to either side is a great feature, one that's come in handy more than once.

"Combined with the high-sensitivity, low-noise, 1/3-type 2.2-megapixel U.L.T. (Ultra Luminance Technology) MOS image sensor ..." (excerpted from the Panasonic pdf for the HPX-250) NOTE: it says SENSOR, not sensors.

Unless the Panasonic blurb contains a typo, or represents poor comprehension on the part of the copywriter, the HPX-250 appears to be a single sensor, 1/3" camera.

Glen Vandermolen · April 11th, 2011, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wilk

"Combined with the high-sensitivity, low-noise, 1/3-type 2.2-megapixel U.L.T. (Ultra Luminance Technology) MOS image sensor ..." (excerpted from the Panasonic pdf for the HPX-250) NOTE: it says SENSOR, not sensors.

Unless the Panasonic blurb contains a typo, or represents poor comprehension on the part of the copywriter, the HPX-250 appears to be a single sensor, 1/3" camera.

It's a 3-chipset. Her's a more detailed link:

For Journalists

Tim Polster · April 11th, 2011, 10:14 AM

I think I read it is the same chipset as the HPX-370. Which can be a good thing or a bad thing depending upon who you talk to!

Light sensitivity is large on my list. After watching the "Coal" series, it seems like the operators had to resort to gain pretty often to get a proper exposure (not just in the mine). Just seems like the XF300s were struggling a bit in that role.

Mark Williams · April 11th, 2011, 11:53 AM

Over 2 years of use I have found P2 to be pretty bullet proof. Works well with my NLE (Edius), What I find really interesting in the HPX250 is the lens (21x), higher resolution and the variety of codecs you can use all the way back to DV. Now if they can just give us a slow-crawl servo zoom control. I shoot with a HPX170 and the slow zoom speed is not slow enough.

Kirk Candlish · April 12th, 2011, 12:11 AM

I was disappointed to see they're still using P2 media. Yes the prices have come down but they're still too damned expensive.

One solution might be this: Blackmagic Design: HyperDeck Shuttle

Antony Michael Wilson · April 12th, 2011, 04:15 AM

P2 media is certainly expensive but AVC-Intra is a great codec and 10-bit. It's all great on the high-end Pana series. However 10-bit, intra-frame compression at high bit rates aren't too much to get excited about if the camera head is putting out noisy and/or poorly processed signals. The 300 and 370 suffer from some major flaws in this area - and the 370 in particular. Let's hope Pana have sorted this out but - after the signal processing issues on the 300/371 and AF100, I won't be holding my breath and I doubt this new camera is a serious threat to the XF!

April 11th, 2011, 06:45 AM	#1
Glen Vandermolen Space Hipster Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,596	XF300's new competitor It looks like Panasonic is releasing a real competitor to the XF300/305. http://pro-av.panasonic.net/en/sales.../ag-hpx250.pdf

April 11th, 2011, 08:39 AM	#2
Steve Maller Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Burlingame, CA USA Posts: 285	Re: XF300's new competitor Sadly, it seems they're still using proprietary P2 cards. And it's "scheduled for release in Autumn 2011". Otherwise, it looks interesting. __________________ me@facebook: http://facebook.com/stevemallerphotography

April 11th, 2011, 09:10 AM	#3
Glen Vandermolen Space Hipster Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,596	Re: XF300's new competitor I've worked with P2 and it's a very good, very reliable media system. Pricey, but the costs have come down a lot lately.

April 11th, 2011, 09:40 AM	#4
Dom Stevenson Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: London UK Posts: 430	the costs have come down a lot lately. They have, but they are still overpriced for what they are IMO. The other issue is that many will want to record to AVC Intra at 100 mbs so even though the cards are getting cheaper, they still work out expensive per minute. I like CF cards myself. Robust, decent size etc. I don't like those tiny/fiddly SDHC things. No doubt the new Panny will be excellent if you've already invested in the P2 media, otherwise its still an expensive system compared with the competition. The AVCHD version will be a good buy for those who can live without the superior codec.

April 11th, 2011, 09:41 AM	#5
Philip Lipetz Major Player Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 273	Re: XF300's new competitor Don't like P2, the AC160 looks like it is an AVCCAM version of the HPX250 recording to more standard media. The AC130 gives up audio quality, HDSDI outputs, and interchangeability between NTSC and European standards.

April 11th, 2011, 09:49 AM	#6
Glen Vandermolen Space Hipster Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,596	Re: XF300's new competitor I had an HPX500 before I got my XF305, and I still have the P2 cards. This camera is interesting to me because of the AVC-i codec. I don't know what the quality of the lens will be, but it had better be really, really good to match the XF's. I still like the form factor of the XF better. The 4" monitor's ability to switch to either side is a great feature, one that's come in handy more than once.

April 11th, 2011, 09:50 AM	#7
Simon Wood Major Player Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Entebbe Uganda Posts: 768	Re: XF300's new competitor The quality of XF300 is the sum of its 2 parts - the codec and the lens. It will be interesting to see if Panny can match the quality of the Canon lens (in the photos it even has 'canon-esque' red stripe. Is it going to be a Leica lens? Glen just said the same thing while I was writing this... __________________ http://vimeo.com/channels/guerrillafilms Last edited by Simon Wood; April 11th, 2011 at 09:51 AM. Reason: Glen just said the same thing while I was writing this...

April 11th, 2011, 09:50 AM	#8
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	Re: XF300's new competitor It will be interesting to see the XF300 vs the HPX-250 as they both have a good codec option and identical chipset specs. If the HPX-250 has better light sensitivity then Panasonic will have an edge.

April 11th, 2011, 10:14 AM	#12
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	Re: XF300's new competitor I think I read it is the same chipset as the HPX-370. Which can be a good thing or a bad thing depending upon who you talk to! Light sensitivity is large on my list. After watching the "Coal" series, it seems like the operators had to resort to gain pretty often to get a proper exposure (not just in the mine). Just seems like the XF300s were struggling a bit in that role.

April 11th, 2011, 11:53 AM	#13
Mark Williams Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Deep South, U.S. Posts: 1,526	Re: XF300's new competitor Over 2 years of use I have found P2 to be pretty bullet proof. Works well with my NLE (Edius), What I find really interesting in the HPX250 is the lens (21x), higher resolution and the variety of codecs you can use all the way back to DV. Now if they can just give us a slow-crawl servo zoom control. I shoot with a HPX170 and the slow zoom speed is not slow enough. __________________ Mark videos: http://vimeo.com/channels/3523 Stock: http://www.pond5.com/artist/mark29

April 12th, 2011, 12:11 AM	#14
Kirk Candlish Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Southern, CA Posts: 198	Re: XF300's new competitor I was disappointed to see they're still using P2 media. Yes the prices have come down but they're still too damned expensive. One solution might be this: Blackmagic Design: HyperDeck Shuttle

April 12th, 2011, 04:15 AM	#15
Antony Michael Wilson Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 343	Re: XF300's new competitor P2 media is certainly expensive but AVC-Intra is a great codec and 10-bit. It's all great on the high-end Pana series. However 10-bit, intra-frame compression at high bit rates aren't too much to get excited about if the camera head is putting out noisy and/or poorly processed signals. The 300 and 370 suffer from some major flaws in this area - and the 370 in particular. Let's hope Pana have sorted this out but - after the signal processing issues on the 300/371 and AF100, I won't be holding my breath and I doubt this new camera is a serious threat to the XF!