DOF in HPX370

Ed Dooley · December 22nd, 2010, 08:10 AM

I'm using the plate that came with my old JVC HD-110, which works fine. The SONY plates, new, are less than $200, the JVC is $250-270, and the Panasonic (same design, same quality) is $450USD.

That's a simple rip-off.
Ed

Philip Fass · December 22nd, 2010, 12:20 PM

So...I'm still not sure. Is there a threaded hole on the bottom of the 370, in case you don't have the accessory plate?

Gary Nattrass · December 23rd, 2010, 04:17 AM

There should be as it will have the same v wedge as the 301.

Ralph McCloud · December 24th, 2010, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip Fass

So...I'm still not sure. Is there a threaded hole on the bottom of the 370, in case you don't have the accessory plate?

Yes, there is a regular threaded hole. But the problem is it almost impossible to remove the v-wedge if you need to attach 35mm adapters, matte box, etc.

See this thread: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/panasoni...onic-help.html

Philip Fass · December 24th, 2010, 09:21 AM

Looking at all the current and forthcoming options...and I don't mean this to be a flame or overly critical in any way...do you think in the next 2-5 years we'll see relatively few 1/3" pro/semi-pro cameras like the 370, with larger sensors (like AF100) taking over?

Gary Nattrass · December 24th, 2010, 11:01 AM

No I don't think larger sensor's will take over as not everyone wants or needs shallow DOF, also smaller cameras can be made with the 1/3" chips and they can produce some very good results up to broadcast standards.

I liken my HPX301 to a 16mm film camera as for TV work it has very similar frame size, yes I will get a 2/3" camera if one comes out at lower cost but for shallow DOF I have a RED One available from next year so I wont be jumping to buy a 101.

Shallow DOF is in fashion at the moment as DSLR's are a cheap way of getting cinematic effect but not all programming needs such a style so smaller camera's for doco and features shooting such as the new canons will continue to use small chips.

Dan Brockett · December 25th, 2010, 01:55 PM

I agree Gary, shallow DOF is vastly overrated. Sure, it can look cool for the occasional closeup or beauty shot but try shooting a moving musician or athlete in an unrehearsed, documentary situation with a shallow DOF camera, about 70% of your shots will be soft or out of focus.

I shot a documentary piece with my 5D MKII in November, mostly handheld and it was really, really tough to hold focus as I and my subjects moved through the frame. If you have a FF and an AC who has measured marks and actors who are accurately hitting the marks, that is one thing but for a huge majority of people who buy sub-$10,000.00 cameras, they are NOT trying to make a narrative feature, they are simply crafting real life stories without a huge crew and actors and camera assistants.

Shallow DOF is somewhat of a fad. Yes, it has always been a part of the vocabulary of filmmakers but lately it has become a cliche of sorts, too may productions that abuse it when it should be used sparingly. Also seems counter-intuitive that I have this amazing low light capability with my 5D MKII and my 1.4 lenses, yet I have to stop the camera down to about an F5.6 to get any practical DOF for moving subjects. Love shooting with the 5D MKII, but the DOF thing can be very limiting if you don't want everything in the frame to be soft mush.

Be careful what you wish for because you just might get it.

Dan

Gary Nattrass · December 26th, 2010, 06:26 AM

Totally agree with Dan and to add what a lot of people seem to not understand is that cinematic feature type productions will only use shallow DPF when needed, the DOP has a selection of lenses available and will use each lens according to the production requirements.

Certainly on all the features I have worked on have been done this way and to put one lens on a 5D and shoot everything the same way is not how it is done by the big boys!

Paul R Johnson · December 26th, 2010, 07:07 AM

I thought it was me! I spend my time in low light with lenses wide open and tight so the luxury of NOT having narrow DoF is really nice. Lots of light, f8 or 11 and wider shots are my most happy times!

I've never been a great fan of throwing focus from subject to subject as they speak - and you see this so often now it really annoys me. Great for effect, but so tiresome to watch. I like my eye to be able to stroll around the frame, seeing everything, not have it forced on me to only look at certain feature. I always get left wondering what is was the director didn't want me to see in the background?

Dan Brockett · December 26th, 2010, 01:47 PM

How about we all demand that Panasonic make a pro level 1/6" sensor camera. If they can work out a way to get low noise levels and high quality with a 1/6" "microsensor" set, we can call it the Orson Wells camera, everything in sharp focus, all of the time? ;-) All of this focusing nonsense is a PITA anyway!

Let's go against the grain.

Dan

Gary Nattrass · December 27th, 2010, 05:04 AM

I am with Dan on this but sadly here in the UK the new generation of noo mediah stoodents are being taught that everything should be shallow DOF and this is not becoming more prevalent in mainstream media where it is totally out of place.

Searching for focus seems to be the new style and when added to the wobbly cam it's time to hit the channel button!

December 23rd, 2010, 04:17 AM	#18
Gary Nattrass Trustee Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Cornsay Durham UK Posts: 1,992	There should be as it will have the same v wedge as the 301. __________________ Over 15 minutes in Broadcast Film and TV production: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1044352/

December 24th, 2010, 11:01 AM	#21
Gary Nattrass Trustee Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Cornsay Durham UK Posts: 1,992	No I don't think larger sensor's will take over as not everyone wants or needs shallow DOF, also smaller cameras can be made with the 1/3" chips and they can produce some very good results up to broadcast standards. I liken my HPX301 to a 16mm film camera as for TV work it has very similar frame size, yes I will get a 2/3" camera if one comes out at lower cost but for shallow DOF I have a RED One available from next year so I wont be jumping to buy a 101. Shallow DOF is in fashion at the moment as DSLR's are a cheap way of getting cinematic effect but not all programming needs such a style so smaller camera's for doco and features shooting such as the new canons will continue to use small chips. __________________ Over 15 minutes in Broadcast Film and TV production: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1044352/

December 26th, 2010, 06:26 AM	#23
Gary Nattrass Trustee Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Cornsay Durham UK Posts: 1,992	Totally agree with Dan and to add what a lot of people seem to not understand is that cinematic feature type productions will only use shallow DPF when needed, the DOP has a selection of lenses available and will use each lens according to the production requirements. Certainly on all the features I have worked on have been done this way and to put one lens on a 5D and shoot everything the same way is not how it is done by the big boys! __________________ Over 15 minutes in Broadcast Film and TV production: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1044352/

December 26th, 2010, 01:47 PM	#25
Dan Brockett Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 2,109	How about? How about we all demand that Panasonic make a pro level 1/6" sensor camera. If they can work out a way to get low noise levels and high quality with a 1/6" "microsensor" set, we can call it the Orson Wells camera, everything in sharp focus, all of the time? ;-) All of this focusing nonsense is a PITA anyway! Let's go against the grain. Dan

December 27th, 2010, 05:04 AM	#26
Gary Nattrass Trustee Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Cornsay Durham UK Posts: 1,992	I am with Dan on this but sadly here in the UK the new generation of noo mediah stoodents are being taught that everything should be shallow DOF and this is not becoming more prevalent in mainstream media where it is totally out of place. Searching for focus seems to be the new style and when added to the wobbly cam it's time to hit the channel button! __________________ Over 15 minutes in Broadcast Film and TV production: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1044352/

December 22nd, 2010, 08:10 AM	#16
Ed Dooley Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Warren Vermont Posts: 73	I'm using the plate that came with my old JVC HD-110, which works fine. The SONY plates, new, are less than $200, the JVC is $250-270, and the Panasonic (same design, same quality) is $450USD. That's a simple rip-off. Ed

December 22nd, 2010, 12:20 PM	#17
Philip Fass Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Charlotte, VT Posts: 397	So...I'm still not sure. Is there a threaded hole on the bottom of the 370, in case you don't have the accessory plate?

December 24th, 2010, 09:21 AM	#20
Philip Fass Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Charlotte, VT Posts: 397	Looking at all the current and forthcoming options...and I don't mean this to be a flame or overly critical in any way...do you think in the next 2-5 years we'll see relatively few 1/3" pro/semi-pro cameras like the 370, with larger sensors (like AF100) taking over?

December 25th, 2010, 01:55 PM	#22
Dan Brockett Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 2,109	I agree Gary, shallow DOF is vastly overrated. Sure, it can look cool for the occasional closeup or beauty shot but try shooting a moving musician or athlete in an unrehearsed, documentary situation with a shallow DOF camera, about 70% of your shots will be soft or out of focus. I shot a documentary piece with my 5D MKII in November, mostly handheld and it was really, really tough to hold focus as I and my subjects moved through the frame. If you have a FF and an AC who has measured marks and actors who are accurately hitting the marks, that is one thing but for a huge majority of people who buy sub-$10,000.00 cameras, they are NOT trying to make a narrative feature, they are simply crafting real life stories without a huge crew and actors and camera assistants. Shallow DOF is somewhat of a fad. Yes, it has always been a part of the vocabulary of filmmakers but lately it has become a cliche of sorts, too may productions that abuse it when it should be used sparingly. Also seems counter-intuitive that I have this amazing low light capability with my 5D MKII and my 1.4 lenses, yet I have to stop the camera down to about an F5.6 to get any practical DOF for moving subjects. Love shooting with the 5D MKII, but the DOF thing can be very limiting if you don't want everything in the frame to be soft mush. Be careful what you wish for because you just might get it. Dan

December 26th, 2010, 07:07 AM	#24
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,045	I thought it was me! I spend my time in low light with lenses wide open and tight so the luxury of NOT having narrow DoF is really nice. Lots of light, f8 or 11 and wider shots are my most happy times! I've never been a great fan of throwing focus from subject to subject as they speak - and you see this so often now it really annoys me. Great for effect, but so tiresome to watch. I like my eye to be able to stroll around the frame, seeing everything, not have it forced on me to only look at certain feature. I always get left wondering what is was the director didn't want me to see in the background?