HVX-200--Sensor Speculation

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Marty Baggen

can you enlighten on the current post production options for it and P2 hardware?

Hi Marty,

Start with my P2 FAQ page, the section about post-production located at:

http://www.p2info.net/p2faq.php#p2post

Editing solutions which support P2 and DVCPRO HD include Apple Final Cut Pro 5, Canopus Edius HD and Avid's Xpress Pro HD, Newscutter, and Media Composer applications.

[Marty Baggen]

Thanks Chris.... you're everywhere!

[Barlow Elton]

Originally Posted by Marty Baggen

Barlow,

as one of many whom are contemplating the move to HD (HDV or otherwise), I swear, it depends on the day of the week as to which camera I am going to buy.... either Sony, JVC, or wait for the Panny.

Can you explain what you mean by robust format for the DVC ProHD? And can you enlighten on the current post production options for it and P2 hardware?

Without a doubt, wait for the Panny. Even with the cost of P2, the format alone is worth the premium. I've edited HDV and DVCPRO HD, and there's just no comparison. DVCPRO HD is very fluid on my Dual 2.7 G5. It works great on other G5's, and even higher clocked G4's too.(don't know about the PC side) HDV works, but feels clunky by comparison. You can tell the computer has to work harder to decode and edit it. DVCPRO HD, even at full 100mbs, feels like a natural and logical extension of the tried-and-true DV format. In other words, it just works.

The director of the film I'm working on is very happy with the format. It's absolutely astonishing that we were able to capture all 30+ hrs of HDCAM footage into such an amazingly good codec. All on one RAID.

I think alot of people are going to be selling their Z1's in the future.

[Marty Baggen]

Barlow,

You have me convinced to wait. My only hesitation with the Panny is ergonomics. I'm so used to shooting on the shoulder for so many situations, but small trade-off for the P2 concept. I am curious about the CCDs. I have had a checkered history with Matsushita chips. I presume that is what is going into the HVX.

Two quickies:

1 - As I explore post-production solutions, which is no doubt going to become more crowded as the new year approaches, am I simply looking for something that can import and work with MXF format?

2 - Has anyone run the math on SD DV capacity for the 8gb card? My numbers come out to about to about 30 minutes... is that right? Seems optimistic to me.

Thanks Barlow...... you have contributed to a much better sleep-pattern from here to November.

Marty

[Chris Hurd]

Hi Marty,

1. Yes, it all pretty much boils down to MXF file support.

2. I can tell you haven't fully explored my site at p2info.net just yet. You'll find the answer to this and many other similar questions simply by browsing the FAQ and the Articles and Resources sections there. In particular to what you're looking for, see this page:

Recording Capacities of P2 Cards

Hope this helps,

[Marty Baggen]

Excellent resource Chris... thank you.

My goal is to eventually stop asking all these questions that have answers in plain sight thanks to the tremendous amount of information you and others on the board have put together here.

Thanks again,
Marty

[Chris Hurd]

Hi Marty,

Trust me, I'm interested in all of your questions, but I'm most especially interested in the questions you may have which are not covered by the material that's already on the p2info.net site -- that's what I would really like to hear about, because those questions will help me greatly to determine what sort of information needs to be added to the site. Thanks,

[Steve Gibby]

Originally Posted by Marty Baggen

Can you explain what you mean by robust format for the DVC ProHD? And can you enlighten on the current post production options for it and P2 hardware?

DVCProHD uses an extension of DV compression and recording scheme that reduces the data rate to 100 mb/s. It's much more stable and less prone to artifacts than MPEG2-TS based HDV. His reference to the DVCProHD format being *robust*, probably is also referring the DVCProHD's 4:2:2 (technically 22:11:11 for HD) ratio between luminance and chrominance sampling - basically 2 sets of color samples for every 4 luma samples. A 4:2:2 sampled format will stand up to multiple passes of graphics and effects in post, whereas a 4:1:1 (DV) or 4:2:0 (HDV) sampled format won't be nearly as *robust* - IE stable and durable - in post.

Current post production options in NLE include: FCP5, Avid Express Pro HD, Media Composer HD, Newscutter, and Canopus Edius HD. P2 hardware options include the new mobile AJPCS060 P2 Store (60 gig = 15 4gig P2 cards) for field use, and the P2 Drive (4 P2 cards) for an edit bay. With a software update, the P2 cards can also be used with a laptop in the field. BTW, the P2 store has a suggested retail of around $1,800.

Hope this helps!

[Graeme Nattress]

Any chroma sampling scheme that reduces the resolution of the chroma with respect to the luma will suffer from bleeding of colour on the addition of effects and graphics, if the NLE or compositing package upsamples the chroma reduction back up to full resolution, ie 4:4:4 (for HD, using a base number of 22 went very much out of style due to the complexity verboseness of such nomenclature, so saying 4:4:4 for HD is not wrong, and is indeed, I think, currently the preferred way of describing things) before compositing. It this this repeated upsample and downsample process that causes the chroma sampling to be less robust.

The Apple DV codecs are famous for not upsampling the chroma upon conversion to 4:4:4, which lends them a blocky appearance, but gives them superior generational performance in native editing compared to, say, the Avid codec, which smooths the chroma upon decompression. This also makes it harder to key off the Apple DV codec, but easier on the Avid, unless some form of chroma upsampling is applied to the DV codec before use. I'm guessing the DVCproHD codec is going to be treated similarly, but I'm not certain.

Another thing to be aware with codecs like DVCproHD that squeezes the image as part of the compression, it's important that any graphics and compositing are done at the native resolution of the codec to stop the degredation that can occur from repeatedly upscaling and downscaling the video.

Graeme

[Steve Gibby]

Excellent summary Graeme. My summary was meant to be concise, but I'm glad you expanded the summary. So graphics and compositing done to DVCProHD footage in FCP should be applied before scaling the video? In using the HVX then, since there's so many resolution options, it would be wise to decide before shooting on what the end-use resolution will be, and shoot in that resolution, rather than shoot, let's say in 720p and then decide to upres to 1080i, or 1080p...correct?

[Graeme Nattress]

Thanks Steve. I think the scaling I'm referring to is the, say, 960x720 to 1280x720 scaling. FCP works on the footage only at it's native 960x720, so you're ok there. It doesn't scale up the footage, add the effect and scale down. It only scales up for "viewing" purposes. Any graphics done big, will get scaled down to fit as appropriate through settings in the motion tab, and now with FCP5, that downscaling is decent at least.

I think that it's fine to shoot 720 and later decide to upscale if necessary. That's a different kettle of fish altogether.

Graeme