A new AJ-HPX2700 for $19,500.00?!?! at DVinfo.net

Dan Brockett · October 8th, 2009, 03:22 PM

Hopefully this wasn't already posted on the other threads, I looked but didn't see it.

A fellow camera person just notified me that he just bought a brand new 2700 for $19,500.00!?! I checked the Panasonic site and lo and behold, it is true! Holy smokes, Panasonic is tempting me like nothing ever has before. The offer is good through December 31, 2009. Perhaps Jan can jump in here and expand on details? It is the same as the 3700 offer was, you need to trade in a certain type of camera, but that is a no brainer, you can buy Betacams on Ebay for $300.00 that are eligible.

Half price on new a 2700. Wow, Hell has definitely frozen over. Not sure if a lot of you who only use lower end cameras realize how incredible this camera is. I would personally prefer this camera over the 3700 as it has VFR, which is important to my work.

Go forth and purchase. If this isn't an economic stimulus package, I don't know what would be.

Dan

Paul Cronin · October 9th, 2009, 05:27 AM

I would be tempted but I need 1080p off the chip. Also does this make you think they are going to stop making the 2700 and replace it with a 1080p camera?

Dan Brockett · October 9th, 2009, 09:33 AM

Well obviously this is a move to sell more cameras during the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression. Considering the 2700 was introduced less than a year ago, I somehow doubt that it will be replaced anytime soon.

Just out of curiosity, do you want or really need 1080p off of the chip? I know two DPs who felt the same way, then had a chance to shoot a show with the 2700, fell in love and bought it. Native resolution is nice but the 1080 that comes out of the 2700 is absolutely beautiful, even though the sensors are not native resolution. I believe that this camera is certified Gold for Discovery Networks, their highest rating.

There is always the 3700 but the special offer on it has ended. For me, the VFR and affordable price are much more significant that native resolution. I have shot with the HPX300, which is an amazing camera for the money and has 1080 native CMOS imagers, but the 2700 makes much better pictures even though it is not 1080 native.

Dan

Paul Cronin · October 9th, 2009, 09:42 AM

Dan not knocking the 2700 and I am sure it creates great pictures. And at $19,500 for a base camera that would be a nice deal. But yes I want native 1080p and higher pixel count on the chip.

Bo Skelmose · October 9th, 2009, 12:09 PM

Rumors will say that there is a model 1000 on its way with 1080-50P.
A lot of other cameras can downconvert 1080P to 720P very beautifuly so maybe there is not a market for 720 CCD's much longer.

Dan Brockett · October 9th, 2009, 12:22 PM

Paul:

Have you considered the HPX300? Not in the same league as the 2700 but about 1/3 the cost and it is full raster. Your work looks mostly like outdoor stuff, the AVC INTRA100 codec would look superb with your aerials and landscapes. A lot of the benefits of the 2700. Perhaps a 300 with a better quality lens and a few P2 cards?

Just something to consider. I love the 300, it is an amazing value for the money.

Dan

Paul Cronin · October 9th, 2009, 02:18 PM

Dan,

Thanks for the recommendation but I shoot with the EX series and the Convergent Designs Nano flash. Excellent combination. I could not go back down to a 1/3" chip. My next step is to 2/3 HD with minimum 2.2 MP on each CCD chip not CMOS. That keeps me watching the Panasonic and Sony threads.

Dan Brockett · October 9th, 2009, 07:00 PM

I shoot with the EX1 quite a bit and frankly, other than the imager size, the 300 is a better camera. The lens is better. The LCD is equal. Then handling is leagues better. While I like the EX1 and it is capable of very good images, the EX1 is prosumer with terrible ergonomics and the 300 is pro with the best ergonomics of any camera I have shot with in the past five years. I just wish that it had 2/3" imagers instead of 1/3". Sony and Panasonic keep coming close and ALMOST getting right, but never right on the money.

The new F800 is really nice hardware and features, about $40k though for the body and it is only 50 MBPS with that wonky Sony codec. How could I go from a $5,000.00 SSM camera with a 100 MBPS codec to a $40,000 one with a 50 MBPS codec that shoots to mechanical media? After living with P2 since 2005, and more recently SxS with the EX1 and CF with the 5D MKII, I could never go back to disc based media, it is a step backwards.

I just did a review of the NanoFlash for HD Video Pro Magazine, it is in the next issue along with the AG-HPG20, the Aja Ki-Pro, the Focus Enhancements 200 and the S.two OB1. It's a nice unit.

Ah well, we continue on with the tools we have.

Dan

Tom Klein · October 9th, 2009, 11:23 PM

Interesting that the larger cameras are being sacrificed in the economic driven climate, I'd like to see some cost cutting/discounts on the smaller 1/3" cams also.
Bang for Buck the 2/3" is sensational value, much better in my opinion than the smaller cams, but for portability, the smaller 1/3" cams win hands down.

Cheers
Tom K

Paul Cronin · October 10th, 2009, 07:56 AM

Dan you bring up some good points. Sony and Panasonic get close but have not yet nailed the best camera for my business.

The EX/1&3 have shoulder braces that solve the problem of ergonomics. And with the EX3 you lens options are endless.

I agree 2/3" is the way to go but with only 1.1MP compared to 2.2MP there is a long way to to catch up there.

Don't cut 100Mbps Long GOP out.

Do you have a reference to the 2700 being "I believe that this camera is certified Gold for Discovery Networks, their highest rating."

Paul Cronin · October 10th, 2009, 08:15 AM

Dan I guess the best way to learn the 2700 camera is rent it for a shoot which I might do.

Steve Phillipps · October 10th, 2009, 08:17 AM

You can't deny the pixel count it's true, but I know of at least production teams that have looked at the HPX2700 and PDW700 side by side and preferred the 2700 image.
Dan, surprised to hear you think the 301 lens is better than the EX1, I found the EX lens in my bried use of it to be outstanding. Are you talking about the stock lens on the Panny? I heard that was dreadful.
Steve

Paul Cronin · October 10th, 2009, 08:31 AM

Thanks Steve,

Again I am down the road of looking at a 2/3" camera. Time to rent and find out on a few flights.

Dan Brockett · October 10th, 2009, 08:44 AM

Hi Paul:

Unfortunately the Producers Portal for Discovery Networks does not list their rating scale on cameras, that information is only provided to commissioned producers and I have not been lucky enough to sell a show to a Discovery network outlet.

But I have read posts and spoken with other producers who have. From what I have been told lately...

HVX200/HPX170, EX1, EX3 and all other 1/3" or 1/2" cameras - Bronze (these 1/3" and 1/2" cameras may not be used for more than 25% of total show content and only w permission from Discovery contact
HPX500 - Silver
HPX2000/3000 w AVCINTRA board, 2700/3700/AJ-HD27 Varicam - Gold along with F900, etc. These cameras may be used on Planet Earth level programming where image really counts.

I don't have the document. Perhaps someone else on their board does? Keep in mind that these specs only apply to commissioned programming, not spec or independently produced content. Also, I have seen three shows that were shot entirely on the HVX200 on a Discovery Network channel in prime time. The most well known was the Iditarod special that aired last year. There was one from the year before that was a mixture of cameras, but there was one last year that was ALL HVX200 and it delivered to Discovery on a hard drive, not on tape. So these rules are more like guidelines anyway.

Dan

Dan Brockett · October 10th, 2009, 08:51 AM

Steve:

I shoot with the EX1 all of the time and it is a decent lens. But the 300 lens has a very effective CAC function and is better built. I was much more impressed with the images I shot with the 300 than with the EX1 on a recent project, but that was, at least partly due to the massive superiority of the AVCINTRA 100 codec over the XDCAM EX codec as well.

The only thing that didn't impress me with the 300 lens is the breathing, it is terrible for rack focusing. But for a lens that is essentially free, it is very impressive to me. Sure, there are much better lenses available for the camera but they cost a lot more than the camera. I wish that the 300 lens was wider too on the wide angle end of things, my 170 lens and the EX1 lens were much wider. But for image quality, the 300 lens is decent.

Dan

October 8th, 2009, 03:22 PM	#1
Dan Brockett Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 2,109	A new AJ-HPX2700 for $19,500.00?!?! Hopefully this wasn't already posted on the other threads, I looked but didn't see it. A fellow camera person just notified me that he just bought a brand new 2700 for $19,500.00!?! I checked the Panasonic site and lo and behold, it is true! Holy smokes, Panasonic is tempting me like nothing ever has before. The offer is good through December 31, 2009. Perhaps Jan can jump in here and expand on details? It is the same as the 3700 offer was, you need to trade in a certain type of camera, but that is a no brainer, you can buy Betacams on Ebay for $300.00 that are eligible. Half price on new a 2700. Wow, Hell has definitely frozen over. Not sure if a lot of you who only use lower end cameras realize how incredible this camera is. I would personally prefer this camera over the 3700 as it has VFR, which is important to my work. Go forth and purchase. If this isn't an economic stimulus package, I don't know what would be. Dan

October 9th, 2009, 05:27 AM	#2
Paul Cronin Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 4,048	I would be tempted but I need 1080p off the chip. Also does this make you think they are going to stop making the 2700 and replace it with a 1080p camera? __________________ Paul Cronin www.paulcroninstudios.com

October 9th, 2009, 09:42 AM	#4
Paul Cronin Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 4,048	Dan not knocking the 2700 and I am sure it creates great pictures. And at $19,500 for a base camera that would be a nice deal. But yes I want native 1080p and higher pixel count on the chip. __________________ Paul Cronin www.paulcroninstudios.com

October 9th, 2009, 02:18 PM	#7
Paul Cronin Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 4,048	Dan, Thanks for the recommendation but I shoot with the EX series and the Convergent Designs Nano flash. Excellent combination. I could not go back down to a 1/3" chip. My next step is to 2/3 HD with minimum 2.2 MP on each CCD chip not CMOS. That keeps me watching the Panasonic and Sony threads. __________________ Paul Cronin www.paulcroninstudios.com

October 9th, 2009, 11:23 PM	#9
Tom Klein Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Australia Vic Posts: 160	Interesting that the larger cameras are being sacrificed in the economic driven climate, I'd like to see some cost cutting/discounts on the smaller 1/3" cams also. Bang for Buck the 2/3" is sensational value, much better in my opinion than the smaller cams, but for portability, the smaller 1/3" cams win hands down. Cheers Tom K __________________ Tom K www.olinevideo.com.au

October 9th, 2009, 09:33 AM	#3
Dan Brockett Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 2,109	Well obviously this is a move to sell more cameras during the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression. Considering the 2700 was introduced less than a year ago, I somehow doubt that it will be replaced anytime soon. Just out of curiosity, do you want or really need 1080p off of the chip? I know two DPs who felt the same way, then had a chance to shoot a show with the 2700, fell in love and bought it. Native resolution is nice but the 1080 that comes out of the 2700 is absolutely beautiful, even though the sensors are not native resolution. I believe that this camera is certified Gold for Discovery Networks, their highest rating. There is always the 3700 but the special offer on it has ended. For me, the VFR and affordable price are much more significant that native resolution. I have shot with the HPX300, which is an amazing camera for the money and has 1080 native CMOS imagers, but the 2700 makes much better pictures even though it is not 1080 native. Dan

October 9th, 2009, 12:09 PM	#5
Bo Skelmose Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Denmark Posts: 495	Rumors will say that there is a model 1000 on its way with 1080-50P. A lot of other cameras can downconvert 1080P to 720P very beautifuly so maybe there is not a market for 720 CCD's much longer.

October 9th, 2009, 12:22 PM	#6
Dan Brockett Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 2,109	Paul: Have you considered the HPX300? Not in the same league as the 2700 but about 1/3 the cost and it is full raster. Your work looks mostly like outdoor stuff, the AVC INTRA100 codec would look superb with your aerials and landscapes. A lot of the benefits of the 2700. Perhaps a 300 with a better quality lens and a few P2 cards? Just something to consider. I love the 300, it is an amazing value for the money. Dan

October 9th, 2009, 07:00 PM	#8
Dan Brockett Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 2,109	I shoot with the EX1 quite a bit and frankly, other than the imager size, the 300 is a better camera. The lens is better. The LCD is equal. Then handling is leagues better. While I like the EX1 and it is capable of very good images, the EX1 is prosumer with terrible ergonomics and the 300 is pro with the best ergonomics of any camera I have shot with in the past five years. I just wish that it had 2/3" imagers instead of 1/3". Sony and Panasonic keep coming close and ALMOST getting right, but never right on the money. The new F800 is really nice hardware and features, about $40k though for the body and it is only 50 MBPS with that wonky Sony codec. How could I go from a $5,000.00 SSM camera with a 100 MBPS codec to a $40,000 one with a 50 MBPS codec that shoots to mechanical media? After living with P2 since 2005, and more recently SxS with the EX1 and CF with the 5D MKII, I could never go back to disc based media, it is a step backwards. I just did a review of the NanoFlash for HD Video Pro Magazine, it is in the next issue along with the AG-HPG20, the Aja Ki-Pro, the Focus Enhancements 200 and the S.two OB1. It's a nice unit. Ah well, we continue on with the tools we have. Dan

October 10th, 2009, 07:56 AM	#10
Paul Cronin Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 4,048	Dan you bring up some good points. Sony and Panasonic get close but have not yet nailed the best camera for my business. The EX/1&3 have shoulder braces that solve the problem of ergonomics. And with the EX3 you lens options are endless. I agree 2/3" is the way to go but with only 1.1MP compared to 2.2MP there is a long way to to catch up there. Don't cut 100Mbps Long GOP out. Do you have a reference to the 2700 being "I believe that this camera is certified Gold for Discovery Networks, their highest rating." __________________ Paul Cronin www.paulcroninstudios.com

October 10th, 2009, 08:15 AM	#11
Paul Cronin Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 4,048	Dan I guess the best way to learn the 2700 camera is rent it for a shoot which I might do. __________________ Paul Cronin www.paulcroninstudios.com

October 10th, 2009, 08:17 AM	#12
Steve Phillipps Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 2,130	You can't deny the pixel count it's true, but I know of at least production teams that have looked at the HPX2700 and PDW700 side by side and preferred the 2700 image. Dan, surprised to hear you think the 301 lens is better than the EX1, I found the EX lens in my bried use of it to be outstanding. Are you talking about the stock lens on the Panny? I heard that was dreadful. Steve

October 10th, 2009, 08:31 AM	#13
Paul Cronin Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 4,048	Thanks Steve, Again I am down the road of looking at a 2/3" camera. Time to rent and find out on a few flights. __________________ Paul Cronin www.paulcroninstudios.com

October 10th, 2009, 08:44 AM	#14
Dan Brockett Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 2,109	Hi Paul: Unfortunately the Producers Portal for Discovery Networks does not list their rating scale on cameras, that information is only provided to commissioned producers and I have not been lucky enough to sell a show to a Discovery network outlet. But I have read posts and spoken with other producers who have. From what I have been told lately... HVX200/HPX170, EX1, EX3 and all other 1/3" or 1/2" cameras - Bronze (these 1/3" and 1/2" cameras may not be used for more than 25% of total show content and only w permission from Discovery contact HPX500 - Silver HPX2000/3000 w AVCINTRA board, 2700/3700/AJ-HD27 Varicam - Gold along with F900, etc. These cameras may be used on Planet Earth level programming where image really counts. I don't have the document. Perhaps someone else on their board does? Keep in mind that these specs only apply to commissioned programming, not spec or independently produced content. Also, I have seen three shows that were shot entirely on the HVX200 on a Discovery Network channel in prime time. The most well known was the Iditarod special that aired last year. There was one from the year before that was a mixture of cameras, but there was one last year that was ALL HVX200 and it delivered to Discovery on a hard drive, not on tape. So these rules are more like guidelines anyway. Dan

October 10th, 2009, 08:51 AM	#15
Dan Brockett Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 2,109	Steve: I shoot with the EX1 all of the time and it is a decent lens. But the 300 lens has a very effective CAC function and is better built. I was much more impressed with the images I shot with the 300 than with the EX1 on a recent project, but that was, at least partly due to the massive superiority of the AVCINTRA 100 codec over the XDCAM EX codec as well. The only thing that didn't impress me with the 300 lens is the breathing, it is terrible for rack focusing. But for a lens that is essentially free, it is very impressive to me. Sure, there are much better lenses available for the camera but they cost a lot more than the camera. I wish that the 300 lens was wider too on the wide angle end of things, my 170 lens and the EX1 lens were much wider. But for image quality, the 300 lens is decent. Dan