HVX on BH Photo

Kevin Dooley · April 25th, 2005, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Harris

what the hell kind of price is that. That's INSANE!!!!! How do you guys offord that, you must BANKKKKKKKKKK from doing whatever you do.

First of all, that's not the right price... second of all, a few paying gigs will pay for a $5K-$6K camera.

Quote:

Oh, and it's pointless without HD DVD burners ect......

If that's the case, why have people been shooting HD for the past seveal years? If that's true, why do people shoot 35mm or 16mm? Very few people have a film projector at home...

You gotta watch sweeping, broad generalizations... There are many, many uses for this which don't include going straight to an HD-DVD. There's broadcast, which can very well be in HD. There's 35mm or even 16mm film outs... There's digital projection in the native resolution/file. And then there's always a dump to SD for DVD, etc. You never know which corporate client has had HD whispered in their ear and no won't settle for anything less... even if they don't need it.

Besides all that, you've got DVCPRO 50 for you SD--4:2:2 colorspace and twice the bandwith of DV. Sweetness...

Luis Caffesse · April 25th, 2005, 08:19 AM

"you must BANKKKKKKKKKK from doing whatever you do."

I'm with Kevin on this, after just a few jobs this camera will pay for itself.

It may seem like a lot of money, but when you shoot for a living it's really not that much. It's not like I'm thinking about spending 10K on new clothes, furniture, or something else that isn't going to make me any money. This is a business investment which will generate more income (that's the hope anyhow).

So, while I don't "bankkkkkkk," I do make my living directly from shooting and editing. This camera will hopefully pay for itself rather quickly, and keep me from having to rent as often as I do right now.

Greg Harris · April 25th, 2005, 08:59 AM

yeah I shoot skateboarding EVERYDAY and that doesn't pay much at atll. I get about $30-$40 a trick and that's only if the skater rides for a few companies. I was the first videographer in the skateboard industry to have the DVX100 and everyone talked mad trash about it because they think it's for indie films only. HA, well I proved them wrong. Also all skateboard videos are on DVD not on Broadcast or anything like that. So it is pointless for me to get this GREAT camera because well first of all, I have to wait to sell my current video and sell my DVX. And second, I was at my friends house last night and we watched a DVD on his 60" pananasonic HDTV and it looked like poo. You guys know this cam is to advanced for it's own good, and when HD DVDs and HD burners come out. I'll jump on that piece. Here is a pieace of my work
enjoy.
thanks it may take a minute to load
http://homepage.mac.com/jredwards4/iMovieTheater5.html

Kevin Dooley · April 25th, 2005, 09:18 AM

Well, then the camera won't necessarily work for you. Though, you can always do a downconvert for the DVD, and then include an HD wmv file on the DVD for people to play through things like the AVEL linkplayers or on their computers, etc. The camera is not too advanced for it's own good... that's like saying the CineAlta and Varicam are too advanced for their own good. The problem is, in your market, you don't have a decent HD distribution yet. That doesn't make the camera useless or too advanced. You're broad, sweeping generalizations just don't hold up.

Jeff Kilgroe · April 25th, 2005, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Harris

"I was the first videographer in the skateboard industry to have the DVX100"

Are you really sure about that? I work with several people who shoot alternative and extreme sporting events, including skateboard events. I know several people who jumped all over the DVX100 and had them for shooting skate events the day they were available. One or two of them even claimed to score their DVX a bit before it was "officially available".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Harris

skateboard videos are on DVD not on Broadcast or anything like that.

Mostly, yes. However, there are videos occasionally aired on ESPN and other sports related networks as well as minor cable filler networks like SPIKE. There's more to video in the skateboarding industry than skate videos... And there is an HDTV outlet via networks such as HD.Net or ESPNHD where they now show larger events like the X Games or Gravity Games in HD. I recently did the editing on a documentary piece in HD, which was shot with Sony HD cameras at our local ESPN Xtreme indoor skate facility. I don't know if it has aired yet or what the status is as I just did a lot of bulk editing on it in January and final edit was up to someone else.

Your sweeping statement above about skateboard videos being only on DVD, while mostly true, shouldn't be counted as a negative. Personally, I see that as an opportunity to blow open a whole new market.

Luis Caffesse · April 25th, 2005, 09:56 AM

Well, while it's true that shooting HD may not be an option for you, let's not forget this camera is offering DVCPro50 at an affordable price as well. For me, that's one of the most exciting things about it, and it's easy to forget as so many get excited about the HD options.

So, even if HD distribution is not possible in your market yet, this camera is still offering quite a bit. It's really a great design for this transitional time from SD to HD, and tape to solid state.

Greg Harris · April 25th, 2005, 10:18 AM

ok ESPN guys DON'T COUNT. When I say the SKATEBOARD INDUSTRY, I MEANT guys who SHOOT SKATEBOARDING ON THE STREETS. Shoot everyday, dealing with cops, going out at night with generators doing it the real way. The top skateboarders in the world don't really attend the xgames anymore due to what they have done with the money they have made from it. While in philly the city took the money they made and put it towards KNOBBING all benches and ledges at Love Park and City Hall. I got the camera like 2 weeks after it came out, and the fish came out in October 2004 and I got that 2 days after it was released. Point is those ESPN guys who shoot EXTREME sporting events don't count at all because you have to know how to shoot it. You can't just go out and press the red button and expect to be good at it, it's a lot of skill with that. I would love to see one of those guys filming a "LINE" 5" from the skater going 10-15 mph making the camera SUPER STILL. Thats skill, first you have to know how to skate rather good and then you you to study angles and motions of the camera. Everyone did talk trash about the DVX when i got it, but now they finally know whats up. I would want to be the first to shoot in HD in the skateboad industry, but that price is out of league for a guy like me.

Kevin Dooley · April 25th, 2005, 10:27 AM

Greg, no offense meant, but you seem like a small fish in an even smaller pond. You came on here and made grand sweeping statements about how useless something was, and when it was pointed out that even in your own industry people could use it and use it well, you come back and say... That's not my industry those guys at ESPN are hacks... Well, those guys at ESPN probably have more experience behind a camera and are making a decent living doing the exact same thing you are... shooting skateboarding. I would bet my house (especially since I'd be happy to get rid of a mortgage payment...) that there will be more than a few people who pick up this camera and start moving into HD skateboarding videos. I would also be surprised of ESPNHD and HD.NET don't jump on this camera as a low cost "b" camera that can be put in harms way a whole lot more than their F900's, Varicams, or whatever else they're shooting on.

I'm glad you enjoy what you do, just don't think that you're the only one trying to get video of skateboarding. Extreme sports in general have now become mainstream... the only thing left is to market them, dump lots o money on them, and get them to the level of the NFL, NBA, MLB, or NHL. And they're pretty much halfway there... Again, no offense meant, but you're corner of the world is not the end all, be all of this camera's potential success.

Jeff Kilgroe · April 25th, 2005, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Harris

ok ESPN guys DON'T COUNT. When I say the SKATEBOARD INDUSTRY, I MEANT guys who SHOOT SKATEBOARDING ON THE STREETS.

Points taken. Yes, completely different shooting approaches, shooting environments and markets. I don't do much of anything related to skateboarding, but I do with snowboarding and there's a lot of similar attitudes and situations. However, snowboarding has become a lot less rebellious over the past several years.

But to say that the guys at ESPN don't count is pretty harsh. A lot of those guys started out doing what you're doing now. Just because there's an elitist rebellion within the skateboarding subculture doesn't mean that those shooting under different circumstances than you are any less capable or qualified.

Tomas Chinchilla · April 25th, 2005, 11:14 AM

....But an article with pictures everywhere seem to contradict that. Sorry if I missed the point.

My intention is not to start another fuss about this but someone please get the facts straigth and if a panasonic rep actually reads this then POST SOMETHING. (if you did I missed it).

The following picture clearly reads (MiniDV NTSC and has an "Eject" button) or am I crazy?

http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/HVX200/IMG_1688.JPG

http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/HVX200/

Quote:

"more recording formats (in addition to DV, there’s DVCPRO50 and DVCPRO-HD); more recording mediums (in addition to miniDV tape, it offers the revolutionary P2 solid-state memory cards"

Kevin Dooley · April 25th, 2005, 11:17 AM

Yes, the camera has a Mini-DV only tape deck.

Greg Harris · April 25th, 2005, 11:24 AM

I dont mean to get anyone mad, I just wanted to state the fact for the SKATEBOARD industry the new Panny (my dream cam) is to hot for us right now but I would love to be the first skateboard filmer to get one but I will wait for the HD DVD to come out because I am a man of perfection. Sorry

Ty Evans and French Fred. Those are the Top of the SKATEBOARD world in Videography and editing. I'm sure they have got offers to work for ESPN, but Why wouldn't shoot the same skaters they do now. Also Ty drives an Audi A8 which is not to shaby if I must say. The shots you see on ESPN with pros skating on the streets are pretty much shot by Ty Evans, French Fred, Lee Dupont, Greg Hunt and a few others who are staff for Girl, ES, Volcom, DC Shoes ect. I'm sure ESPN pay those gusy great for that work. That stuff is shot with vx1 vx2 and now Ty Evans has finally got 3 dvx100a's. I just had tons of footage in a MAJOR skateboard video (zero) "New Blood" I will recieve a good amount from that vid. I have 5 other videos that have invoices still out there. I know a lot of the major video guys form the skateboard industry over 10 years, and have not none one to go on to shoot for ESPN directly. Most go on to do Major Movies in Hollywood. I have had job offers to move to CA and be staff fimler for so and so companies, but I have a nice NON video job in the D.C. area.

Tomas Chinchilla · April 25th, 2005, 11:33 AM

...It seems to me technically that any movie shot in HD even when down-compressed to regular DVD will look much much better than regular DV. unless of course its transferred to FILM.

The person that made the remark about some people were already shooting HD for a while its right.

Some of the DVD's you see out there when you look at them in a HD set television, look very damm good when blown up don't they, but, if you look at your common DVD creation from a regular DV camera it doesn't quite match that quality.

It has to do with the quality of the picture (Size) original footage.

Anyone correct me if I am wrong.

Jiri Bakala · April 25th, 2005, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Kilgroe

But to say that the guys at ESPN don't count is pretty harsh. A lot of those guys started out doing what you're doing now. Just because there's an elitist rebellion within the skateboarding subculture doesn't mean that those shooting under different circumstances than you are any less capable or qualified.

..in fact, some of those guys have been shooting everything from news to network specials for years, using all kinds of cameras imaginable...
Just my $0.02 reminder...

Dan Euritt · April 25th, 2005, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Harris

I would love to be the first skateboard filmer to get one but I will wait for the HD DVD to come out because I am a man of perfection.

and when hd dvd starts getting accepted by the masses, you won't have squat for footage.

the point is that you could start shooting it now, because the kind of work you do has archival value... down-rez it to standard dvd during the edit, but cover your future bases by keeping the original hd footage.

i create and sell my own dvd's from scratch, which is where you should be headed with the hd footage... you'll be one up on the competition when the time comes.

April 25th, 2005, 08:19 AM	#17
Luis Caffesse Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 704	"you must BANKKKKKKKKKK from doing whatever you do." I'm with Kevin on this, after just a few jobs this camera will pay for itself. It may seem like a lot of money, but when you shoot for a living it's really not that much. It's not like I'm thinking about spending 10K on new clothes, furniture, or something else that isn't going to make me any money. This is a business investment which will generate more income (that's the hope anyhow). So, while I don't "bankkkkkkk," I do make my living directly from shooting and editing. This camera will hopefully pay for itself rather quickly, and keep me from having to rent as often as I do right now. __________________ Luis Caffesse Pitch Productions Austin, Texas

April 25th, 2005, 09:18 AM	#19
Kevin Dooley Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 414	Well, then the camera won't necessarily work for you. Though, you can always do a downconvert for the DVD, and then include an HD wmv file on the DVD for people to play through things like the AVEL linkplayers or on their computers, etc. The camera is not too advanced for it's own good... that's like saying the CineAlta and Varicam are too advanced for their own good. The problem is, in your market, you don't have a decent HD distribution yet. That doesn't make the camera useless or too advanced. You're broad, sweeping generalizations just don't hold up. __________________ Kevin Dooley Media Director, Pantego Bible Church

April 25th, 2005, 09:56 AM	#21
Luis Caffesse Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 704	Well, while it's true that shooting HD may not be an option for you, let's not forget this camera is offering DVCPro50 at an affordable price as well. For me, that's one of the most exciting things about it, and it's easy to forget as so many get excited about the HD options. So, even if HD distribution is not possible in your market yet, this camera is still offering quite a bit. It's really a great design for this transitional time from SD to HD, and tape to solid state. __________________ Luis Caffesse Pitch Productions Austin, Texas

April 25th, 2005, 10:27 AM	#23
Kevin Dooley Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 414	Greg, no offense meant, but you seem like a small fish in an even smaller pond. You came on here and made grand sweeping statements about how useless something was, and when it was pointed out that even in your own industry people could use it and use it well, you come back and say... That's not my industry those guys at ESPN are hacks... Well, those guys at ESPN probably have more experience behind a camera and are making a decent living doing the exact same thing you are... shooting skateboarding. I would bet my house (especially since I'd be happy to get rid of a mortgage payment...) that there will be more than a few people who pick up this camera and start moving into HD skateboarding videos. I would also be surprised of ESPNHD and HD.NET don't jump on this camera as a low cost "b" camera that can be put in harms way a whole lot more than their F900's, Varicams, or whatever else they're shooting on. I'm glad you enjoy what you do, just don't think that you're the only one trying to get video of skateboarding. Extreme sports in general have now become mainstream... the only thing left is to market them, dump lots o money on them, and get them to the level of the NFL, NBA, MLB, or NHL. And they're pretty much halfway there... Again, no offense meant, but you're corner of the world is not the end all, be all of this camera's potential success. __________________ Kevin Dooley Media Director, Pantego Bible Church

April 25th, 2005, 11:14 AM	#25
Tomas Chinchilla Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 212 Images: 8	I keep hearing that this camera does not have a DV tape mechanism....... ....But an article with pictures everywhere seem to contradict that. Sorry if I missed the point. My intention is not to start another fuss about this but someone please get the facts straigth and if a panasonic rep actually reads this then POST SOMETHING. (if you did I missed it). The following picture clearly reads (MiniDV NTSC and has an "Eject" button) or am I crazy? http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/HVX200/IMG_1688.JPG http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/HVX200/ Quote: "more recording formats (in addition to DV, there’s DVCPRO50 and DVCPRO-HD); more recording mediums (in addition to miniDV tape, it offers the revolutionary P2 solid-state memory cards"

April 25th, 2005, 08:59 AM	#18
Greg Harris Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Fairfax, VA Posts: 356	yeah I shoot skateboarding EVERYDAY and that doesn't pay much at atll. I get about $30-$40 a trick and that's only if the skater rides for a few companies. I was the first videographer in the skateboard industry to have the DVX100 and everyone talked mad trash about it because they think it's for indie films only. HA, well I proved them wrong. Also all skateboard videos are on DVD not on Broadcast or anything like that. So it is pointless for me to get this GREAT camera because well first of all, I have to wait to sell my current video and sell my DVX. And second, I was at my friends house last night and we watched a DVD on his 60" pananasonic HDTV and it looked like poo. You guys know this cam is to advanced for it's own good, and when HD DVDs and HD burners come out. I'll jump on that piece. Here is a pieace of my work enjoy. thanks it may take a minute to load http://homepage.mac.com/jredwards4/iMovieTheater5.html

April 25th, 2005, 10:18 AM	#22
Greg Harris Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Fairfax, VA Posts: 356	ok ESPN guys DON'T COUNT. When I say the SKATEBOARD INDUSTRY, I MEANT guys who SHOOT SKATEBOARDING ON THE STREETS. Shoot everyday, dealing with cops, going out at night with generators doing it the real way. The top skateboarders in the world don't really attend the xgames anymore due to what they have done with the money they have made from it. While in philly the city took the money they made and put it towards KNOBBING all benches and ledges at Love Park and City Hall. I got the camera like 2 weeks after it came out, and the fish came out in October 2004 and I got that 2 days after it was released. Point is those ESPN guys who shoot EXTREME sporting events don't count at all because you have to know how to shoot it. You can't just go out and press the red button and expect to be good at it, it's a lot of skill with that. I would love to see one of those guys filming a "LINE" 5" from the skater going 10-15 mph making the camera SUPER STILL. Thats skill, first you have to know how to skate rather good and then you you to study angles and motions of the camera. Everyone did talk trash about the DVX when i got it, but now they finally know whats up. I would want to be the first to shoot in HD in the skateboad industry, but that price is out of league for a guy like me.

April 25th, 2005, 11:17 AM	#26
Kevin Dooley Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 414	Yes, the camera has a Mini-DV only tape deck. __________________ Kevin Dooley Media Director, Pantego Bible Church

April 25th, 2005, 11:24 AM	#27
Greg Harris Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Fairfax, VA Posts: 356	I dont mean to get anyone mad, I just wanted to state the fact for the SKATEBOARD industry the new Panny (my dream cam) is to hot for us right now but I would love to be the first skateboard filmer to get one but I will wait for the HD DVD to come out because I am a man of perfection. Sorry Ty Evans and French Fred. Those are the Top of the SKATEBOARD world in Videography and editing. I'm sure they have got offers to work for ESPN, but Why wouldn't shoot the same skaters they do now. Also Ty drives an Audi A8 which is not to shaby if I must say. The shots you see on ESPN with pros skating on the streets are pretty much shot by Ty Evans, French Fred, Lee Dupont, Greg Hunt and a few others who are staff for Girl, ES, Volcom, DC Shoes ect. I'm sure ESPN pay those gusy great for that work. That stuff is shot with vx1 vx2 and now Ty Evans has finally got 3 dvx100a's. I just had tons of footage in a MAJOR skateboard video (zero) "New Blood" I will recieve a good amount from that vid. I have 5 other videos that have invoices still out there. I know a lot of the major video guys form the skateboard industry over 10 years, and have not none one to go on to shoot for ESPN directly. Most go on to do Major Movies in Hollywood. I have had job offers to move to CA and be staff fimler for so and so companies, but I have a nice NON video job in the D.C. area.

April 25th, 2005, 11:33 AM	#28
Tomas Chinchilla Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 212 Images: 8	Just a comment.... ...It seems to me technically that any movie shot in HD even when down-compressed to regular DVD will look much much better than regular DV. unless of course its transferred to FILM. The person that made the remark about some people were already shooting HD for a while its right. Some of the DVD's you see out there when you look at them in a HD set television, look very damm good when blown up don't they, but, if you look at your common DVD creation from a regular DV camera it doesn't quite match that quality. It has to do with the quality of the picture (Size) original footage. Anyone correct me if I am wrong.