HVX in Australia/PAL land - Here are the Details excluding the official Press Release

[Peter Jefferson]

Just in case you didn't pick up from the press release,

- The HVX200 has a DV tape transport in addition to the two P2 card slots.
The tape is included for DV recording only. No HD, sorry.
- The HVX200 records on to P2 in DV, DVCPRO, DVCPRO-50 and DVCPRO-HD.
- Yes the 1/3" CCD's are Native 16:9.
- IEEE1394 and USB 2.0 plus Component out.

Here's some pics,


(See attached file: AG-HVX200E.pdf)

DVCPRO-HD is NOT HDV, ie Sony and JVC.
- HDV is massively compressed MPEG2 across many frames @ 25Mbps on to DV
tape
- The HVX200 uses the same DVCPRO-HD codec that the Varicam uses.

DVCPRO-HD is Intra-frame. So compression occurs within a frame, not across
many.
DVCPRO-HD is compressed @ 6.7:1
DVCPRO-HD has a data rate of 100Mbps.

P2 is capable of 640Mbps transfer speed. So 100Mbps presents no problem.
P2 cards can be rewritten up to 100,000 times.
P2 is now a proven format and widely in use across the world.

P2 and DVCPRO-HD is already supported by many NLE platforms. FCP, Avid,
Canopus, Pinnacle, Quantel, GV, Leitch and others soon to follow.

There will be a 50Hz AND a 60Hz version. Sorry, I should have made it
clearer. The press release is out of the US.
Formats are as follows,

50Hz - 1080/50i, 1080/25p, 720/50p, 720/25p, 576/50i, 576/25p;
60Hz - 1080/60i, 1080/24p, 1080/30p, 720/60p, 720/24p, 720/30p, 576/60i,
576/24p;
Unfortunately not switchable.

Panasonic are also releasing a 60Gb USB 2.0 portable drive. It's transfer
rate from the HVX200 will be around 1GB per minute. This will allow users
to transfer footage in the field, freeing up time on the P2 cards.

The 50Hz version is scheduled for production early October.
Price? At a guess at this stage, a list of around $8,000 plus GST.


I also have a PDF brochure if one of the mods or admins want it, i can email it to u! :)

Now wheres my piggybank..? i gotta start saving.. :)

[Aaron Koolen]

OK, production early October? Does that mean we wait a few months after that to get them?

Thanks for the info Pete. 8K huh - nice. Now if I was self employed, I'd get that GST back...I Better get cracking!

Aaron

[Peter Jefferson]

"OK, production early October? Does that mean we wait a few months after that to get them?"

more like 6 at the most..
but like the DVX.. id say april next year.. most likely theyll have a prototype at DMF this year either that or an NTSC model.. but at least its coming .. :)

[Michael Maier]

So no 24p in PAL? Why? HD is no longer PAL? Why is Panasonic doing this. If you are doing a film out, you need 24p. 25p will do it, but why not give us 24p as well? This is disapointing.

Also, the PAL version will come out 6 months after the NTSC version?
Since it's HD, if I buy a NTSC HVX200, will I need a NTSC montior to monitor footage on set or will I need a HD monitor like normal HD? Would a downconverter work with a PAL monitor.

I might just buy a NTSC version.

[Dylan Pank]

24p isn't done on a 50Hz machine as there is no pulldown scheme that can be applied in 1080i mode.

Generally it's accepted that in 50Hz/PAL countries film work for TV is done at 25fps and then slowed down for film release/60hz countries.

However it maybe that the 60 models become desirable to people in 50hz countries in the same way that PAL models used to be in NTSC countries.

[Aaron Koolen]

I don't know why in PAL land we can't get 720/24p seeing as discrete frames are stored but I can sort of understand it in the 1080p-stored-interlace version. What would be the pulldown on that?

Aaron

[Peter Jefferson]

So no 24p in PAL?
((Nope.. there never was and never will be.. the dvx, xl2 are all 25p due to our recording rates.. back in the heyday, voltage and power and hertz ratios were also a factor with the builds between pal and ntsc.. some film cameras today even shoot in 25fps coz of this.. mind u things have changed a lil since then.. ))


Why? ((Pal is 50hz.. mind u if its dvcprohd ia @100mbbbps, i dont see why we cant get 100hz ot of the camera itself... just imagine the refresh when shooting high speed sports.. hmmmm.......

HD is no longer PAL? Why is Panasonic doing this.

((Of course it is.. where does it say it isnt?? HD is in 720 50i, 720 25p and 720 50p... dont ask me how theyre gonna do 50p though.. i can only assume that instead of interlacing, its grabbing full frames... i dunno... ))

If you are doing a film out, you need 24p. 25p will do it, but why not give us 24p as well? This is disapointing.

((prolly coz this unit is more designed for the broadcaster (here in Oz it will be anyway... ).. also if u are making a somethgn to go out to film, you wont lose anything by transcoding it to 24p... in fact, youll have much more information to play with..

But in all, The cost of cameras down here is stupid.. this is the and most versatile and economical HD acquisition tool available offering its material on exisitng formats used by the stations..

JVC were smart though, they pulled out 24 AND 25p in pal land.. but to be honest, id rather the power and versatility of this.. that and the fact that ive used DVX100s for last 3 years and i know that it will gve me the results i need..

[Aaron Koolen]

I think the delineation, especially now is almost artificial. Sure we have different power systems, but the HD res's are the HD res's, you get no more res from PAL than you do NTSC - just a different frame rate. 24P is not a natural output to NTSC and neither is it for PAL. Maybe due to the reverse (it is reverse isn't it?) pulldown issue from 24 to PAL, they just dno't bother.

Then again, I quite like not having to bugger around with drop frame timecode and all that guff and I'm sure 25 is fine for me - I mean, I'm happy watching DVD movies in 25P, I don't notice that they run faster.

Aaron

[James Darren]

it'd be cool if they made the HVX like the Sony Z1 where its both PAL & NTSC. Also i'd love it if the slo-mo was like 75fps so I could not use my Bolex as much as anymore! Although 50fps is better than what we currently have!

all in all, looks like a great camera according to the specs...

[Andrew Pascoe]

Yes l must admit too Aaron that l've never noticed a problem with 25p but then again l've only ever been able do fake 25p with magic bullet because l have a VX2000 & PD170 so l would love to see what the footage out this new panasonic looks like. Would have to be better just for the fact of not having to deinterlace footage for which l feel decreases some of the sharpness and then on top of that you've got more pixels to play with.

But l wish they brought out a 1/2"ccd model so you could then make a better investment on the bases that you could put a 1/2"to 2/3" adapter on it and buy a top quality 2/3 lense that you could use with higher end camera's when the time came to update. I guess when you have a think about it though we'll get a camera that under certain controlled filming conditions for some one like me who's never seen footage direct from a Varicam etc. this camera will produce a picture that will make me think l am using a Varicam.

This camera will be great for regional based commercials l reckon as you'll have the HD side of things for when you need it and also when you just want to use it as a bit of marketing hype with clients and for myself personally l've got a Steadicam Flyer coming soon which one of these camera's would be a perfect match for.

There's only one unanswered question...... how much will it cost in Australia.
If history is anything to go by then someone in Australia could just about get it cheaper buying a Pal version from someone in the States like B&H and that's after paying freight,GST & customs duty..... time will tell.

Andrew P.

[Peter Jefferson]

Hey Andrew,
cost has been written in the initial post..

With regard to deinterlacing.. yes ur right, u do lose resolution.. There are many threads in this frum which go over the uses of Progressive scan and its benefits as well as the negatives..

With this camera though, personally i feel that what its offering is more than any other cam on the market in its price range can offer..

the CCD may be 1/3, but ive been perfectly happy with the performance of the DVX100.. hopefully by then, Pana being who they are, would even improve on that..

The best thing about this camara above all else, is the fact that not only does it record DV in 16:9, but it will also let us record to DVCPro, which is what most broadcasters here in Oz are using right now and will continue to use for a long time coming.
Until the DVCProHD ENG type cameras come out i dont see any station paying half a million dollars to upgrade their edit stations, let alone acquire a handycam to replace a DSR570...
Lets face it, the camera is good by spec alone, but its form factor will be a something which drives some people away.. it jsut doesnt look "professional" enough.. things might change.. have a look at the footage were seeing coming from indonesia recently.. theyre all using handycams..

The option of DVCProHD 100 will make HDV look kinda like "Digital8 vs DV" when put side by side with it.. thats just going on spec and bandwidth, but it will definitely give us the bandwidth for some decent effects and Chroma work as well offering a means to deliver our work to broadcasters without compromising quality...

25p is perfectly fine unless ur specifically wanting delivery to film.. then id say go 24p due to film processing cost alone.... then again, we dont know the CCD Pixel count, so even if HD resolutions, the pixel resolutions will still most likely be higher in Pal than NTSC

In the end though, regradless of what we shoot in, if our material sucks, noones gonna wanna watch it.. so it all comes down to content really.. once we sort out the content, thats when we can focus on our tool of choice.. like a carpenter building something, until he decide what he builds, he wont know which tool to use..

Its all good :)

[Bob Zimmerman]

Next April for the HVX? No it will be out the 4th quarter of 2005.

[Andrew Pascoe]

Peter can you tell me were you got the info from regarding the price and also is there any info of what the price will be for two P2 cards with the camera.

l couldn't agree with you more Peter as far as perception is concerned, people tend to think if it's not some big lug of a camera then the end result will be crap... and sometimes that can be true but as you said it's the person behind the camera that makes the most difference.

l've played drums for 20yrs now and l can say with out doubt you could put any of the world's top drummers on a crappy kit and they will make it sound great for what it is, put a beginner-average drummer on a great kit and he'll sound no different than what he would of on the crap kit.

Andrew P.

[Peter Jefferson]

Originally Posted by Bob Zimmerman

Next April for the HVX? No it will be out the 4th quarter of 2005.

thats in the US mate,
here in Aus, its gonna start PRODUCTION shortly after u actually have yours in ur hot lil hands...

Pal is always behind NTSC.. most likely it will be available in Japan and asia even before the US...

[Mathieu Ghekiere]

Originally Posted by Peter Jefferson

At a guess at this stage, a list of around $8,000 plus GST.

Prices in Europe really suck!
Why do people allow it for stuff to costs here a couple of thousand dollars more?