HVX Article on Millimeter's Website

[Kevin Dooley]

Hey, there's an article up on millimeter's website (here)

Apparently the article has a few typos, or there's some different information floating about.

It talks about pricing and it says that a model with an HDV drive will be $5995 and the P2 model (including 2 2GB cards) would be $9995. Has anyone else heard this? Can this be confirmed or denied (please deny it) by Jan or anyone else quasi official?

Thanks,

Kevin

[Lawrence Bansbach]

Originally Posted by Kevin Dooley

Hey, there's an article up on millimeter's website (here)

Apparently the article has a few typos, or there's some different information floating about.

It talks about pricing and it says that a model with an HDV drive will be $5995 and the P2 model (including 2 2GB cards) would be $9995. Has anyone else heard this? Can this be confirmed or denied (please deny it) by Jan or anyone else quasi official?

Thanks,

Kevin

It's a misprint -- they meant 8-GB cards. I've got to ask, how is $9,995 a good deal, especially since Panasonic projected that the 8-GB cards would cost about $1,700 each (the current price of a 4-GB card)? It sounds $600 too high. I've also seen the rumor of $7,995 for the same configuration, although this sounds a little low.

[Kevin Dooley]

So, there's not two models then, and (I'm assuming) no HDV deck? Just the one model, plus a package deal w/ 2 8GB cards? Now, if they did sell it for $7995, that would basically mean you get one card free... and free is a very good price. Of course, I'm not holding my breath...

[Barry Green]

Originally Posted by Kevin Dooley

So, there's not two models then, and (I'm assuming) no HDV deck? Just the one model, plus a package deal w/ 2 8GB cards? Now, if they did sell it for $7995, that would basically mean you get one card free... and free is a very good price. Of course, I'm not holding my breath...

There is no HDV-anything on this camera.

The model with no cards carries an MSRP of $5995.

The bundle deal with two 8gb cards carries an MSRP of $9995.

As far as I know, people saying an 8gb card for $1700 are unsubstantiated. Apparently a 4gb card costs $1700 now, and the projection is that by the time the 8gb card is released, an 8gb card will cost about what a 4gb card does today, but that's some tricky forecasting on such a volatile-priced object.

For Panasonic's part, they said that the $9995 bundle did not reflect the pricing of 8gb cards.

[Kevin Dooley]

Thanks Barry.

It's nice to know the minor heart attack I had from pent up frustration was merely due to a typo.

Interesting that they say the pricing of the bundle doesn't reflect the pricing of the things included in the bundle... Or are they trying to say that the price for the bundle is not set in stone?

[Barry Green]

Originally Posted by Kevin Dooley

Thanks Barry.

It's nice to know the minor heart attack I had from pent up frustration was merely due to a typo.

Interesting that they say the pricing of the bundle doesn't reflect the pricing of the things included in the bundle... Or are they trying to say that the price for the bundle is not set in stone?

I think what they're saying is the price of the 8gb cards is not set yet (which makes a lot of sense to me -- trying to predict the price of a memory card, five months out from release, would seem to require a Ouija board at the very least).

So I think Panasonic's saying that regardless of what an 8gb card costs, they will bundle two at 9995. Now, of course, if the 8gb card costs less, nobody will buy the bundle, that's obvious. I guess what we're saying is that Panasonic is guaranteeing that in the situation of the cards costing more than anticipated, they'll cover it by guaranteeing the bundle price. If the cards end up costing less, then obviously they would reduce the bundle price (or nobody would buy it, they'd buy the stuff un-bundled).

So I guess I'd say they're guaranteeing it as a not-to-exceed type of price.

[Guy Bruner]

During the presentations in the Panasonic booth at NAB, the representatives said the 8 Gig card would cost $2495 in single unit quantities.

[Jesse Bekas]

Originally Posted by Guy Bruner

During the presentations in the Panasonic booth at NAB, the representatives said the 8 Gig card would cost $2495 in single unit quantities.

Well it's good to see that you will possibly be getting a deal by buying the bundle.

BTW - Guy, nice to see you over here. Are you at NAB right now?

[Guy Bruner]

Hi Jesse,
I was there through Tuesday. Lots of interesting stuff from JVC, Panasonic, Vegas, Avid, Pinnacle, etc. etc. Was also good to meet Chris, Greg Boston, et al...but I digress...

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Originally Posted by Guy Bruner

During the presentations in the Panasonic booth at NAB, the representatives said the 8 Gig card would cost $2495 in single unit quantities.

I do hope that isn't true... There are already 8GB and 16GB solid state devices on the market that can read and write data streams in excess of the necessary 100Mbps that these P2s will require and they currently cost far less than that. P2 is just SD memory, essentially an 8GB P2 is just 4x2GB SD cards placed into a PC card form factor with a memory controller than can interleave them. Charging $2495 for 4x2GB SD cards plus another $3 in parts is complete bullshiznit.

Then again, if Panasonic tries to promote P2 as an open standard (or a very cheaply licensed standard) other memory card makers should jump into the game and offer lower priced products. We will probably see adapter style products such as an empty P2 card that allows the user to insert 4xSD cards of matched specs. So we could buy the empty card and snap in 4x2GB, then sell those off or use them for something else later when we decide to snap in 4x8GB instead.

If Panasonic tries to horde the P2 format and keeps the artificially inflated prices up in the clouds ($2495 for 8GB, yeah, right...), then P2 will most likely fail on the consumer/prosumer end. Sorry, but I'll skip the P2 and record directly to a laptop if I need to. The laptop can fit comfortably in a backpack along with all my other camera accessories that I might need in the field. In a studio set environment, a decent laptop or a workstation on a cart is a no-brainer.

[Guy Bruner]

I do hope that isn't true...

I have video of the presentation if you need proof that he said $2500 per 8 Gig. He also said "well, you know, this is list and prices (hand gesture down)." $2500 IS outrageous for 8 minutes of storage but it is within the price range of 8 Gig of compact flash.

[Peter Jefferson]

i wouldnt worry too much about P2 pricing until things get closer to the launch of the unit..
There will be such a high demand for the buggers, not to mention the stupidly insane fluctuation of memory prices... that by the time the unit is released prices will go down.. theres no need to stress about it at this point in time..

hell im not worrying about P2 DVCProHD until my clients can watch HD footage.. until then, I'll be using the cams DVCPro50 format on 2 P2.s and a laptop...aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh the land of Digibeta.......

By the time all this comes to pass though, software and hardware would have evolved another generation, so I really dont see the point in making an issue of it

and dont forget the P2 card that acts as an SD adapter.. if prices are a problem.. get an adapter wit 4 1gb sd cards ;)
by then SD cards would have doubled in capacity.. who knows maybe even triple..

Its all good.. and i have to say im glad we have the future proofed option of this format..

This is the best thing to happen to Digital Video on this level in a LOOOOOOONG time

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Originally Posted by Guy Bruner

I have video of the presentation if you need proof that he said $2500 per 8 Gig. He also said "well, you know, this is list and prices (hand gesture down)." $2500 IS outrageous for 8 minutes of storage but it is within the price range of 8 Gig of compact flash.

I have no doubt that they're saying $2500. I just think it's out of line... And $2500 IS NOT within the price range of 8GB of compact flash. If you think it is, then you're paying way too much. I can buy 1GB CF cards all day long for $55, 2GB for $185, 2.2GB for $230. There's also some odd-ball 4GB non-microdrive CF cards out there for about $650 and they should be a lot more common by the end of the year as Creative and a few others who have been using the 4GB MicroDrive CF in their music players have already announced they will be using the solid state CFs of the same capacity later this year.

4GB Sony MemoryStick Pro sells for $565.

2GB SD Cards sell for $180, 4GB SD is hard to find, but out there for about $500. My local Best Buy store has terrible prices on memory cards (it's where they make a lot of their money - accessories) and they're only charging $240 for a 2GB SD card. So even at their high prices, 8GB of SD would still be under $1000.

With current flash memory prices, $2500 for a 16GB P2 would be in line with current prices, yet Panasonic is only announcing 8GB P2 cards. And 8GB for $2500 isn't just overpriced, it's extortion. Keep in mind that the P2 is based off SD memory and uses quad pieces of SD with an interleave controller. There is no reason Panasonic couldn't manufacture an 8GB P2 right now and sell it for $800 or so and still make a little profit on each one. I get the impression that Panasonic wants to sell a few units for a lot of profit each rather than a lot of units for a little profit on each. Hmmmm.... Nothing wrong with that, I guess, just a different business model of sorts. I'm no marketing expert, but I've been in the IT and computer hardware industry for many years and I'm not sure that gouging the customer is a good idea when you're trying to launch a new format. And when it's made plain as day that the P2 is based on SD memory, customers are smart enough to know when they're being ripped off. P2 is not some new type of wonder-memory, it's just one way of assembling an off-the-shelf commodity into an already existing PC card form factor.

[Jesse Bekas]

SD memory card prices (or flash media prices in general) aren't the be all end all in relevance when discussing P2 prices.

P2 is niche product/technology aimed at Pros. Like with all other Pro equipment it will be marked up accordingly. They figure we're "overpaying" on everthing else (decks, monitors, etc...). Why wouldn't this be the same?

[Dan Euritt]

the price point of this camera dictates that it's in the so-called prosumer market, not the pro market... this rig needs to compete directly with hdv marketshare, in order to make the most money for panasonic.

in the absence of hd hard drive recording capability, p2 pricing will be key to the success of this camera.