HVX200 & P2 - it is THE revolution

[Jon Miova]

My first post on this great website :-)

Great thread, guys..

However, i'm confused now.
Reading for few hours on this discussions board (found after some quick search on Google), to basically found some information about Canon XL2, now i'm just not sure WHICH camera i'll buy this year. If i understand well (english to being my primary language) it seems that Panasonic HVX200 is the absolute camera for 2005 regarding value v.s. overall quality.

Well, since every tool's possibilies is limited by his user, i must ask:

" For what particular use (ex: "movie-like" filmaking) HVX200 would be a MUST-HAVE ? "

Let's say i want higher image quality possible, best lighting/contrast control, best "film-like" look and that i'm planning to transfer on 35mm. Should i go with XL2 or wait for the HVX200 ?

I'm a newbie. I'm more involved in photography, so when i compare lens/camera i like to SEE the difference, which is simplier with photography than video footage i guess...

Thanks for listening and sorry to disturb your high-tech conversation ;-)

Jon

[Barry Green]

Originally Posted by Jon Miova

" For what particular use (ex: "movie-like" filmaking) HVX200 would be a MUST-HAVE ? "

Well, if you want to shoot 1080/24p, the HVX will be the only camera that can do that, so that might be one category.

Let's say i want higher image quality possible, best lighting/contrast control, best "film-like" look and that i'm planning to transfer on 35mm. Should i go with XL2 or wait for the HVX200 ?

That remains to be seen. Just from the specifications, if you're planning on a 35mm transfer, the HVX theoretically *should* be far superior, since it can shoot 1080/24p. However, I'd say that anyone who was planning to transfer to 35mm should be shooting on 35mm in the first place, since the cost to blow up the footage at the end will be about as much as you would have spent on 35mm stock in the first place.

However, shooting HD may change that formula some... it used to be that not only would a DV blowup cost about the same as shooting on 35mm, but also the end product wouldn't look nearly as good. With the opportunity to shoot 1080/24p, the quality difference may not be so great. When the HVX comes out, it may be time to revisit that formula.

I'm a newbie. I'm more involved in photography, so when i compare lens/camera i like to SEE the difference, which is simplier with photography than video footage i guess...

Then it's way, way, way too early to start looking for these comparisons. We won't see any HVX footage for a few months, and the camera itself won't exist for sale until October, at the earliest, and maybe not until December.

Many of the veterans here would also ask you to consider, if you are a newbie as you say, why do you feel you need to jump in at the very top of the game, with the top-of-the-line-affordable-high-definition camera? You may be better served getting something a little less overwhelming, and learning the craft, before putting down the big bucks to buy a $5,000 or $6,000 camera. Your choice, of course...

[Mike Gannon]

Patience has never been my strong suit, but I must be getting more of it with age. After ultimately being underwhelmed by the XL2 for budget broadcast production, I initially viewed/hoped/prayed Sony's FX1 would ignite "the revolution." While I think the Sony is a boss piece of engineering, the more I explored the HDV format, the more bitter the taste in my mouth became. And after Barry Green and Jarred Land's comparision of DVX/XL2/FX1, I threw in the towel and blew my aquisition budget on a down payment on an Infiniti G35 coupe.

Now, thanks to Panasonic, I've got six months or so to start socking away cash again (or at least pay down the credit cards) not only to pick up the HDX200, but to build an entire production suite around the P2 format. If money saved is money earned, P2 pays for itself right out of the box as I delete mutiple tape decks from my Excel spreadsheet.

While much can and has occured on the way to the altar with "the next big thing," I feel rather comfortable waiting on the HDX release, knowing that Panasonic's recent history from Varicam to SDX to DVX has been nothing short of home runs for HD, ED and SD. The fact that they are going to give us all those formats in a single package...well that's a revolution in and of itself.

The problem I see in 2006 is that I may not be the only kid on the block with one of these babies, and I may not be able to make the margins I need to keep up the car payments unless I go back to blended scotch. Fortunately at this point, there are many who apparently don't view the world of tapeless recording and edit as I do, citing the "high" cost and "short" recording time delivered by SD memory at today's level of technology. Too each his own and more power to them.

Personally, I can't wait for this camera. It's everything everybody has been asking for and then some. You can see this very clearly by the virtual absence of questions (unlike HDV) because Panasonic chose to use tried and true formats and codecs already well-established in the NLE world. The planets have aligned and the world has changed. Thank you Panasonic for creating products that your customer base wants rather than attempting to
create a custormer base for a product your company wants.

[Jon Miova]

QUOTE--And after Barry Green and Jarred Land's comparision of DVX/XL2/FX1, I threw in the towel and blew my aquisition budget on a down payment on an Infiniti G35 coupe.--QUOTE


*falls off the chair*

Hahhaa! :-)


*climb back*

Got a similar situation with an RX-8... ;-)

Toys, toys, toys

[Kevin Dooley]

Sorry for being off topic...

How's that RX8 drive? I had an RX7 for a while and felt it was a highly underrated car... man that thing could haul...

[Chris Hurd]

Boys, boys! Take the auto talk to the TOTEM Poll, please. Thanks,

[Mike Gannon]

Originally Posted by Kevin Dooley

Sorry for being off topic...

How's that RX8 drive? I had an RX7 for a while and felt it was a highly underrated car... man that thing could haul...

I test drove the RX8 and it finished a close second in my decision. Be careful in Chicago however. You really need an SUV in that town as the potholes will regularly crush aluminum rims and rip low profile tires clean off. Too bad the Mayor decieded to spend a billion (yes, a BILLION) dollars on a new downtown park instead of making the streets safe for cars that cost more than the house I grew up in.

[Heath McKnight]

Again, let's talk about the HVX200, NOT a car.

heath

[Stephen van Vuuren]

You'd think with what people are paying for gas, P2 cards would be a bargain. I wish I could reuse my gas 100,000 times :)

Before they wondered wildly off topic, I think it's an important point, especially for those of us thinking about the business angle, that the HVX200 is much more about up front costs than ongoing costs. Once you have you record setup, that becomes a zero budget item.

However, for those that just are used to keeping miniDV tapes as archive master and backup for a project, they will need to rethink their backup archive setup. Fortunately, drives and optical disk are getting cheaper by the minute.

[John Plunkett]

Hello all! This is my first post here, but I've been visiting the forum for a while.

I've read this thread because I, like others, am intersted in the new Panasonic camera. While I think it's specs are pretty impressive, the most important factor to me is not the camera, but rather the buzz. I'm currently working for a small advertising company, but also do freelance work. The cable system that is our parent company launched HDTV a while ago and is entertaining the idea of ad insertion on their HD channels. It's not an immediate action item, since they only have a select handful of HD channels available, but down the road when their HD customer base increases they will be looking to us to provide the advertising solution. I intend to recommend the Panasonic HVX200 as an upgrade to our existing Sony PD170 due primarily to the limits of HDV technology and Sony's penchant for making cameras with excessive horizontal aliasing effects. The issue I'm more concerned with is this: Would my freelance work benefit from the purchase of an HVX200?

I have to wonder about that because I'm purchasing a new camera this year and have many pre-purchase concerns. The main concern is: Will i LOSE business because I'm not working in HD? The client probably wouldn't see the difference between true 1080p HD and 480p SD upconverted to 780p, but the gimmick IS the selling point. Before, shooting in HD meant a higher price point for clients, but with the introduction of more and more budget-priced HDV and now DVCproHD, it's easy to see that HD production will be a competitive factor in the market I'm currently working in. With that said, it only makes sense to buy anything that records in HD format, or does it?

I guess for most of the people on here, upgrading to HD monitors, an NLE capable of editing HD/HDV format video and HD DVD burners must be a drop in the bucket, I on the other hand have to budget things a little more carefully. My fear is that if purchased, footage shot with the HVX200 would be so taxing on my NLE that it would turn what was a super-fast editing system into an obsolete piece of poop. I've read articles echoing this sentiment and broad statements about today's current NLE systems not being up to speed for HD editing. If this is true, then post-purchase of the HVX200, I may be limited to SD-only recording until I can get a system capable of editing HD at speeds I'm accustomed to.

Having said that, the best feature of the HVX200 in my mind is the fact that it will also record SD DV25 and DV50. My only concern is whether or not this recording will be to the P2 cards or to an additional DV tape system. I'm sure the storage of a P2 card in SD record mode will equal out to roughly the same space as a DV tape, but if the cost of the P2 cards are excesively high, then that really limits the amount of constant use I can get out of the camera before I have to dump footage. For the company I work for, it's a no-brainer because we never use a full tape on a shoot, but we don't shoot anything other than 30-60 sec commercials either.

I know I've touched base on a lot of issues, but that is kind of where my head is at right now. I think the Panasonic HVX200 is an awesome camera, but at the price range it's currently listed at, it will be kind of difficult for me to justify purchasing it if all I can shoot is SD content until my backline equipment is up to HD spec.

[Simon Wyndham]

The answer to your question about losing business if you don't shoot HD is a resounding no. And do not allow anybody to tell you otherwise. The only way you will lose business is if someone asks you to shoot in HD and you tell them you can't.

Look, buy your new camera, and then if someone asks you to shoot in HD just rent a camera. If you start to get more HD requests than SD ones then you can think about an HVX200. I'll bet that by the time you gte requests for HD all the time the HDX will be in it's first revised model by then.

I just spent almost 20k all told on new SD equipment. "Mad!" you all say. No, not quite. Even if I was to wait for this new P2 camera it wouldn't do what I needed for my bread and butter work. P2 just hasn't enough storage for working in unpredictable conditions. Its fantastic for planned fictional stuff, but no good for the educational and community sector. Not to mention that my clients mostly do not even know what HD is yet. They've only just started asking me for DVD!

My 20k investment did however include a lot of equipment that will last me a lifetime and will never become obsolete however. I could have bought an FX1 or a Z1 instead. They work with tape. I don't want tape. I place my ease of workflow above most other things. Here in PAL land we aren't quite as resolution deficient as NTSC anyway, and 16:9 is quite normal for everyday TV.

The only people who can tell you what camera to buy are your clients.

[Pete Wilie]

Simon,

Even if I was to wait for this new P2 camera it wouldn't do what I needed for my bread and butter work. P2 just hasn't enough storage for working in unpredictable conditions. Its fantastic for planned fictional stuff, but no good for the educational and community sector.

I'm not sure why you say this. The HVX200 comes with a miniDV tape drive and is fully capable of acquiring and recording to tape very high quality SD footage.

IOW, it can pretty much do anything a SD camera can do, only better. <g>

Best Regards,
Pete

[Simon Wyndham]

Urr, I already have a great SD camera. I certainly wouldn't replace it with an HDX200 for SD work.

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Simon Wyndham

I already have a great SD camera. I certainly wouldn't replace it with an HDX200 for SD work.

But for those folks who *are* looking to upgrade their SD gear, even if they're not ready for HD just yet, this camcorder will be well worth considering, and that's the whole point here.

[Kevin Dooley]

Yeah, for people who can't afford 2/3" inch shoulder mount ENG cams that shoot DVCPRO 50, Digibeta, or D9, we now have a camera that gives us that quality and we own it. Sure, the lens and CCD's are a limiting factor, but... we have the higher end acquisition to some degree. Long before the whole Hi-Def craze, I knew I needed to replace my aging XL1 this year, and now it looks like for a little more than what I was looking at spending I can have HD and a better SD.

Kudos to patience!