Variable frame rates? at DVinfo.net

Matt Harvey · April 18th, 2005, 04:57 AM

Does anyone have further information on the vairable frame rates? If this is true, it would be fantastic :0)

Regards

Matt

Rob Lohman · April 18th, 2005, 05:13 AM

As far as I understand it, variable in the sense of:

NTSC: 24p/30p/60p
PAL: 25p/50p

Not variable in you can choose from a wider range than those above.

Carl Merritt · April 18th, 2005, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Lohman

As far as I understand it, variable in the sense of:

NTSC: 24p/30p/60p
PAL: 25p/50p

Not variable in you can choose from a wider range than those above.

I feared that might be the case.
It's "variable", not Variable.

Still, pretty good for getting some kind of slo-mo if mastering to 24p.

Thomas Smet · April 18th, 2005, 10:51 AM

You will get fast and slow motion with this however. I think what the camera will do is sample the 60p of 720p but record 30 or 24 onto the P2. This will give you a 50% or 40% slow motion which is the only camera in this price range to do that. Usually variable frame rates are only really used for slow motion anyways. How many of us say during shooting "You know I don't really like 50% slow motion but would rather have 61% slow motion.) I never really saw the use of variable rates in odd number vales. Maybe 45fps would be nice for a 75% slow motion for 30p or 48 fps for true 50% at 24p but everything else in between isn't very usefull.

Barry Green · April 18th, 2005, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Smet

You will get fast and slow motion with this however. I think what the camera will do is sample the 60p of 720p but record 30 or 24 onto the P2. This will give you a 50% or 40% slow motion which is the only camera in this price range to do that. Usually variable frame rates are only really used for slow motion anyways. How many of us say during shooting "You know I don't really like 50% slow motion but would rather have 61% slow motion.) I never really saw the use of variable rates in odd number vales. Maybe 45fps would be nice for a 75% slow motion for 30p or 48 fps for true 50% at 24p but everything else in between isn't very usefull.

It does give you true, legitimate variable frame rates, like the VariCam. It doesn't just sample at 60p, it'll sample and deliver whatever frame rate you choose.

The unanswered question is: what frame rates will it make available? It'll be more than just the 24/30/60 we know about, but we don't know yet the details on all the frame rates it will support.

Thomas Smet · April 18th, 2005, 12:07 PM

Wow thanks again Barry! I really didn't think Panasonic would give us that at this cost. I still don't really see the use for it other than certain levels of slow motion but it is great that it is there.

Simon Wyndham · April 18th, 2005, 03:32 PM

You know what would be *really* cool? If you could shoot at 24fps and then ramp it to 60fps while it was recording for true speed ramps just like the film guys! Okay it would be a sudden ramp rather than a smooth transition, but cool all the same.

Dominic Jones · April 18th, 2005, 04:56 PM

Simon, I think that, if Barry is correct and I assume he is, then it's better than that.

If it has true variable framerate then you will be able to do a ramp in camera, just as in a cine camera - although if not all speeds are supported (i.e. it only has 24/30/48/60 or something) then it'll still be a bit jumpy...

Jeff Kilgroe · April 18th, 2005, 08:48 PM

OK, since nobody else wants to ask for some strange reason....

What are the max and min rates? Could we push the camera all the way to 100fps (or more) or is 60fps the max? Can we do rates as low as 1fps <maybe even lower than that> for setting up some time-lapse sequences (may be more handy than using a still camera).

Are rate changes dynamic, as in can the rate be modified or ramped up/down while recording? Can presets be assigned to alter aperture and exposure in accordance with fps? ooooh, wouldn't that be handy.

Matt Gettemeier · April 18th, 2005, 09:38 PM

I know it's not the same, but you guys asking for variable frame rates solely for the purpose of smooth speed transitions should take a look at Vegas... it blows Premiere away in speed control. I use both... but Vegas rules on slowmo.

Also the thing I can't believe isn't mentioned more is the FOUR-CHANNEL audio... yeah, not two channels. FOUR.

Panasonic rules.

Aaron Koolen · April 18th, 2005, 09:39 PM

Yeah Matt, four sounds nice, although we don't yet know if we can get four into the camera - it only has 2 XLRs ;)

Aaron

Barry Green · April 18th, 2005, 11:37 PM

Regarding variable frame rates -- no hard and fast details have been released. However, on a slide at a presentation tonight, it said "4-60 fps", which leads me to think that the minimum will be 4fps, and the maximum 60, although we don't know how many speeds will be in-between.

Charles Papert · April 19th, 2005, 01:00 AM

Hey again Barry! Nice saying hi today.

I asked Jan about this earlier today, and she said that she was pushing for as many intermediate settings as possible for the variable frame rates. I could see at the very least there being a 48 fps between 30 and 60.

April 18th, 2005, 04:57 AM	#1
Matt Harvey Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 30	Variable frame rates? Does anyone have further information on the vairable frame rates? If this is true, it would be fantastic :0) Regards Matt

April 18th, 2005, 05:13 AM	#2
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	As far as I understand it, variable in the sense of: NTSC: 24p/30p/60p PAL: 25p/50p Not variable in you can choose from a wider range than those above. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

April 18th, 2005, 08:48 PM	#9
Jeff Kilgroe Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Golden, CO Posts: 681	OK, since nobody else wants to ask for some strange reason.... What are the max and min rates? Could we push the camera all the way to 100fps (or more) or is 60fps the max? Can we do rates as low as 1fps <maybe even lower than that> for setting up some time-lapse sequences (may be more handy than using a still camera). Are rate changes dynamic, as in can the rate be modified or ramped up/down while recording? Can presets be assigned to alter aperture and exposure in accordance with fps? ooooh, wouldn't that be handy. __________________ - Jeff Kilgroe - Applied Visual Technologies \| DarkScience - www.darkscience.com

April 18th, 2005, 09:39 PM	#11
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	Yeah Matt, four sounds nice, although we don't yet know if we can get four into the camera - it only has 2 XLRs ;) Aaron __________________ My Website Meat Free Media

April 19th, 2005, 01:00 AM	#13
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Hey again Barry! Nice saying hi today. I asked Jan about this earlier today, and she said that she was pushing for as many intermediate settings as possible for the variable frame rates. I could see at the very least there being a 48 fps between 30 and 60. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

April 18th, 2005, 10:51 AM	#4
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	You will get fast and slow motion with this however. I think what the camera will do is sample the 60p of 720p but record 30 or 24 onto the P2. This will give you a 50% or 40% slow motion which is the only camera in this price range to do that. Usually variable frame rates are only really used for slow motion anyways. How many of us say during shooting "You know I don't really like 50% slow motion but would rather have 61% slow motion.) I never really saw the use of variable rates in odd number vales. Maybe 45fps would be nice for a 75% slow motion for 30p or 48 fps for true 50% at 24p but everything else in between isn't very usefull.

April 18th, 2005, 12:07 PM	#6
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	Wow thanks again Barry! I really didn't think Panasonic would give us that at this cost. I still don't really see the use for it other than certain levels of slow motion but it is great that it is there.

April 18th, 2005, 03:32 PM	#7
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	You know what would be really cool? If you could shoot at 24fps and then ramp it to 60fps while it was recording for true speed ramps just like the film guys! Okay it would be a sudden ramp rather than a smooth transition, but cool all the same.

April 18th, 2005, 04:56 PM	#8
Dominic Jones Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Brighton, England Posts: 225	Simon, I think that, if Barry is correct and I assume he is, then it's better than that. If it has true variable framerate then you will be able to do a ramp in camera, just as in a cine camera - although if not all speeds are supported (i.e. it only has 24/30/48/60 or something) then it'll still be a bit jumpy...

April 18th, 2005, 09:38 PM	#10
Matt Gettemeier Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 936	I know it's not the same, but you guys asking for variable frame rates solely for the purpose of smooth speed transitions should take a look at Vegas... it blows Premiere away in speed control. I use both... but Vegas rules on slowmo. Also the thing I can't believe isn't mentioned more is the FOUR-CHANNEL audio... yeah, not two channels. FOUR. Panasonic rules.

April 18th, 2005, 11:37 PM	#12
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	Regarding variable frame rates -- no hard and fast details have been released. However, on a slide at a presentation tonight, it said "4-60 fps", which leads me to think that the minimum will be 4fps, and the maximum 60, although we don't know how many speeds will be in-between.