30 GB PCMCIA size drive coming! P2 alternatives? at DVinfo.net

Michael Pappas · April 7th, 2005, 10:08 AM

I was looking at tomshardware.com and he has a review on the Toshiba 1.8" drive. They are no bigger than PCMCIA cards

Miniature Disk Drive: The Toshiba MK3006GAL Delivers 30 GB in a 1.8" Form Factor

It's highest data rate is 22 Mega bytes per second

Sustained data is not lower then 10 Mega bytes per second. The good news...............

Since 10 mega bytes per second exceeds the specs for DVCPROHD 24P/ 720 at 40mbs ( around 6.5 mega bytes per second ) there is headroom there.

What's great is, 30 gigs will give is around 91 minutes of 24/720 DVCPROHD video. Now I like that. No, I love it............

There is also a 60 gig coming too! That's around 182 minutes of 24/720 DVCPRHD.......

Here are some links

http://www.tomshardware.com/storage/20050323/index.html

Benchmark test

http://www.tomshardware.com/storage/20050323/pocket_rocket-04.html

A quote from Toms Hardware:

Toshiba's 1.8" (actual size) MK3006GAL drives enjoy great popularity right now. That's because they are no bigger than PCMCIA cards, and can use the same connectors to link up to devices. This micro-drive is also entirely compatible with the widely used UltraATA/100 interface standard.

Enjoy

Michael Pappas
http://www.Pbase.com/ARRFILMS

30 GB PCMCIA size drive coming! P2 alternatives?

Mathieu Ghekiere · April 7th, 2005, 10:13 AM

">3. How likely is HVX200 to work with PCMCIA disks in place of P2 cards?

Well if the experiments that we have tried with them on the SPX800 are any indication, they probably won't. The small drive is the problem. But please do not let this remark turn into a thread that ate New Jersey.

Best regards,

Jan"

This is a quote (I hope they don't mind I quoted it) from the boards here, at another thread at this section, by Jan, so it looks like a no. Sorry.

Michael Pappas · April 7th, 2005, 10:30 AM

The probelm is Jan did not say what the camera mbs being sent to the drive was.

What drive was used.

I asked here a list of questions on the other thread. So this not working has more to do with what did they use and what were the testing specs.

This is a very new drive. Rember hard drives are moving targets, this only gets better. Drives get better by the week.

<<<-- Originally posted by Mathieu Ghekiere : ">3. How likely is HVX200 to work with PCMCIA disks in place of P2 cards?

Well if the experiments that we have tried with them on the SPX800 are any indication, they probably won't. The small drive is the problem. But please do not let this remark turn into a thread that ate New Jersey.

Best regards,

Jan"

This is a quote (I hope they don't mind I quoted it) from the boards here, at another thread at this section, by Jan, so it looks like a no. Sorry. -->>>

Mathieu Ghekiere · April 7th, 2005, 11:32 AM

Ow, well I don't really know so much about it, I just thought I was saying something intelligent. Damn, I always fail ;-) Héhé, no, euhm, sorry about it, my technical knowledge about it is completely not that big, but I just read the things and euh, well, I just apologize.
Regards,

Ignacio Rodriguez · April 7th, 2005, 02:46 PM

Mathieu, when you tried it, did the camera just say something like "card not supported" or did it capure to the card and miss frames or something like that?

Barry Green · April 7th, 2005, 02:56 PM

Well, as for the mbps, it was no more than 50, as that's all the SPX800 can record. It maxxes out at 50mbps.

Notice what she said: she didn't say the card didn't work, she said the drive was the problem. I take this as disappointing, but also encouraging -- it means that maybe other off-the-shelf PCMCIA cards will work, and not be limited to just Panasonic P2 type cards. So if someone comes out with a better drive, or perhaps some type of PCMCIA hard-disk controller that controls off-the-shelf firewire or USB2 drives, it seems like that might work.

Michael Pappas · April 7th, 2005, 03:39 PM

Hi Barry!

The people at ( reelstream ) who modified the DVX100A are great examples . Tapping into the cameras ccd to get 4:4:4, full ccd res 12 bit rgb recording to firewire. Wow, there's a tough venture.....

Reel- Streams link:

http://www.reel-stream.com/index_temp.php

When comparing to that, coming up with a ribbon PCMCIA card adapter to drive or just a PCMCIA/ HD enclosure or what ever, can't be anywhere near as difficult as to tap into the ccd's of the DVX100A and stream out a signal like that.

The italians who removed the FX1 lens system and machined a new mount is not easy to do right. But they did.

This gives great hope to what can happen from 3rd party developers...

So hard drives, PCMCIA cards, cables and power systems are all off the self hardware . Those that know how to put the pieces together will make it happen.

These moments make me think how Charles McConathy would be up to his neck and a smile on his face. He would have innovated new devices at Promax to work with this new technology.

Charles McConathy for sure would of had a P2 alternative. I know that.

Unfortunately there really is no one like him doing just that at the moment coming up with alternatives publicly. Charles always came on the boards to discuss. I was ten minutes from him, so I would go there and discuss, and see the cool things. I wish we still had that innovative outlet......

So now it's up to others?

Michael Pappas
http://www.pbase.com/ARRFILMS

Barry Green · April 7th, 2005, 06:24 PM

Man, I wish Charles hadn't died. I really liked him, and his innovation and his attitude towards us, the customer. He was a class act, and we sure miss him.

But yes, exactly -- using off-the-shelf components like PCMCIA/Cardbus connectors may indeed offer the aftermarket unprecedented ability to make new and innovative accessories.

I can't stop thinking that Jan's statement said that the DRIVE was the problem, not the card. Let's get out a soldering iron and some tin snips, pry that card open, and hotwire a Seagate Cheetah in there and see if it works! If it does, you can BET that someone will make a P2-to-hard-disk card.

(that's assuming Panasonic doesn't make it themselves, a possibility I'm not ready to discount).

A camera with an operating system... a "camputer", as they call the SPX800... man, what options will there be? Can we design our own custom gamma curves and upload them? Did they provide links in the OS that you could intercept and replace with your own routines? Wild speculation, but heck, I spent 15 years as a computer programmer, and now another who-knows-how-many as a video tech guy... there could be some amazing possibilities here! (or nothing, if they didn't provide for it, of course).

Mathieu Ghekiere · April 7th, 2005, 06:37 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Ignacio Rodriguez : Mathieu, when you tried it, did the camera just say something like "card not supported" or did it capure to the card and miss frames or something like that? -->>>

I don't know anything about it, I just read some stuff here, and quoted some people, because I thought I could help someone. I was wrong, though ;-)

Scott Anderson · April 7th, 2005, 08:28 PM

Mathieu, stop beating yourself up!

I read Tom's Hardware all the time, but maybe it's new to some people on this board.

Good link - it sparks a good discussion. Wasn't it Jan herself that alluded to Firestore supporting this camera? I don't think there's any doubt that 3rd party alternatives will become available for this camera. The question is when: 2 weeks from now? By the time the camera ships? Or late this summer? (that's the outside guess, but I'm betting on some prototype devices demonstrated at NAB, then available by the time the cam hits the shelf)

This is also a question to ask at the Promax Digital Cafe. Charles may be gone, but the company seems committed to carrying on his legacy.

Joe Carney · April 8th, 2005, 09:07 AM

I referenced the toms article a couple of weeks ago. There is some possibility in the future, but for now the throughput on the drive is just a little to slow for HDPRO. If there is demand, I'm sure Toshiba will respond. BTW, Toshiba also has a 60gig 2 platter version that is just a little to tall(depth) to fit into the P2 slot. Besides we really don't know what is going to be announced at NAB.

funny thing, that drive is more than fast enough for the new JVC and the Sony.

Right now the biggest market is protable media players. We're talking millions of units versus thousands.

Anhar Miah · April 9th, 2005, 08:12 AM

ok

Can i suggest this post be joined onto my post as this really is the same (in essense) topic as the one i brought up.

Thread title :

"P2 card to Hard disk adaptor"

Best Regards

Anhar Miah

April 7th, 2005, 10:08 AM	#1
Michael Pappas Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: California Posts: 667	30 GB PCMCIA size drive coming! P2 alternatives? I was looking at tomshardware.com and he has a review on the Toshiba 1.8" drive. They are no bigger than PCMCIA cards Miniature Disk Drive: The Toshiba MK3006GAL Delivers 30 GB in a 1.8" Form Factor It's highest data rate is 22 Mega bytes per second Sustained data is not lower then 10 Mega bytes per second. The good news............... Since 10 mega bytes per second exceeds the specs for DVCPROHD 24P/ 720 at 40mbs ( around 6.5 mega bytes per second ) there is headroom there. What's great is, 30 gigs will give is around 91 minutes of 24/720 DVCPROHD video. Now I like that. No, I love it............ There is also a 60 gig coming too! That's around 182 minutes of 24/720 DVCPRHD....... Here are some links http://www.tomshardware.com/storage/20050323/index.html Benchmark test http://www.tomshardware.com/storage/20050323/pocket_rocket-04.html A quote from Toms Hardware: Toshiba's 1.8" (actual size) MK3006GAL drives enjoy great popularity right now. That's because they are no bigger than PCMCIA cards, and can use the same connectors to link up to devices. This micro-drive is also entirely compatible with the widely used UltraATA/100 interface standard. Enjoy Michael Pappas http://www.Pbase.com/ARRFILMS 30 GB PCMCIA size drive coming! P2 alternatives?

April 7th, 2005, 02:46 PM	#5
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	Mathieu, when you tried it, did the camera just say something like "card not supported" or did it capure to the card and miss frames or something like that? __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.

April 7th, 2005, 10:13 AM	#2
Mathieu Ghekiere Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Belgium Posts: 2,195	">3. How likely is HVX200 to work with PCMCIA disks in place of P2 cards? Well if the experiments that we have tried with them on the SPX800 are any indication, they probably won't. The small drive is the problem. But please do not let this remark turn into a thread that ate New Jersey. Best regards, Jan" This is a quote (I hope they don't mind I quoted it) from the boards here, at another thread at this section, by Jan, so it looks like a no. Sorry.

April 7th, 2005, 10:30 AM	#3
Michael Pappas Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: California Posts: 667	The probelm is Jan did not say what the camera mbs being sent to the drive was. What drive was used. I asked here a list of questions on the other thread. So this not working has more to do with what did they use and what were the testing specs. This is a very new drive. Rember hard drives are moving targets, this only gets better. Drives get better by the week. <<<-- Originally posted by Mathieu Ghekiere : ">3. How likely is HVX200 to work with PCMCIA disks in place of P2 cards? Well if the experiments that we have tried with them on the SPX800 are any indication, they probably won't. The small drive is the problem. But please do not let this remark turn into a thread that ate New Jersey. Best regards, Jan" This is a quote (I hope they don't mind I quoted it) from the boards here, at another thread at this section, by Jan, so it looks like a no. Sorry. -->>>

April 7th, 2005, 11:32 AM	#4
Mathieu Ghekiere Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Belgium Posts: 2,195	Ow, well I don't really know so much about it, I just thought I was saying something intelligent. Damn, I always fail ;-) Héhé, no, euhm, sorry about it, my technical knowledge about it is completely not that big, but I just read the things and euh, well, I just apologize. Regards,

April 7th, 2005, 02:56 PM	#6
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	Well, as for the mbps, it was no more than 50, as that's all the SPX800 can record. It maxxes out at 50mbps. Notice what she said: she didn't say the card didn't work, she said the drive was the problem. I take this as disappointing, but also encouraging -- it means that maybe other off-the-shelf PCMCIA cards will work, and not be limited to just Panasonic P2 type cards. So if someone comes out with a better drive, or perhaps some type of PCMCIA hard-disk controller that controls off-the-shelf firewire or USB2 drives, it seems like that might work.

April 7th, 2005, 03:39 PM	#7
Michael Pappas Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: California Posts: 667	Hi Barry! The people at ( reelstream ) who modified the DVX100A are great examples . Tapping into the cameras ccd to get 4:4:4, full ccd res 12 bit rgb recording to firewire. Wow, there's a tough venture..... Reel- Streams link: http://www.reel-stream.com/index_temp.php When comparing to that, coming up with a ribbon PCMCIA card adapter to drive or just a PCMCIA/ HD enclosure or what ever, can't be anywhere near as difficult as to tap into the ccd's of the DVX100A and stream out a signal like that. The italians who removed the FX1 lens system and machined a new mount is not easy to do right. But they did. This gives great hope to what can happen from 3rd party developers... So hard drives, PCMCIA cards, cables and power systems are all off the self hardware . Those that know how to put the pieces together will make it happen. These moments make me think how Charles McConathy would be up to his neck and a smile on his face. He would have innovated new devices at Promax to work with this new technology. Charles McConathy for sure would of had a P2 alternative. I know that. Unfortunately there really is no one like him doing just that at the moment coming up with alternatives publicly. Charles always came on the boards to discuss. I was ten minutes from him, so I would go there and discuss, and see the cool things. I wish we still had that innovative outlet...... So now it's up to others? Michael Pappas http://www.pbase.com/ARRFILMS

April 7th, 2005, 06:24 PM	#8
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	Man, I wish Charles hadn't died. I really liked him, and his innovation and his attitude towards us, the customer. He was a class act, and we sure miss him. But yes, exactly -- using off-the-shelf components like PCMCIA/Cardbus connectors may indeed offer the aftermarket unprecedented ability to make new and innovative accessories. I can't stop thinking that Jan's statement said that the DRIVE was the problem, not the card. Let's get out a soldering iron and some tin snips, pry that card open, and hotwire a Seagate Cheetah in there and see if it works! If it does, you can BET that someone will make a P2-to-hard-disk card. (that's assuming Panasonic doesn't make it themselves, a possibility I'm not ready to discount). A camera with an operating system... a "camputer", as they call the SPX800... man, what options will there be? Can we design our own custom gamma curves and upload them? Did they provide links in the OS that you could intercept and replace with your own routines? Wild speculation, but heck, I spent 15 years as a computer programmer, and now another who-knows-how-many as a video tech guy... there could be some amazing possibilities here! (or nothing, if they didn't provide for it, of course).

April 7th, 2005, 06:37 PM	#9
Mathieu Ghekiere Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Belgium Posts: 2,195	<<<-- Originally posted by Ignacio Rodriguez : Mathieu, when you tried it, did the camera just say something like "card not supported" or did it capure to the card and miss frames or something like that? -->>> I don't know anything about it, I just read some stuff here, and quoted some people, because I thought I could help someone. I was wrong, though ;-)

April 7th, 2005, 08:28 PM	#10
Scott Anderson Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 327	Mathieu, stop beating yourself up! I read Tom's Hardware all the time, but maybe it's new to some people on this board. Good link - it sparks a good discussion. Wasn't it Jan herself that alluded to Firestore supporting this camera? I don't think there's any doubt that 3rd party alternatives will become available for this camera. The question is when: 2 weeks from now? By the time the camera ships? Or late this summer? (that's the outside guess, but I'm betting on some prototype devices demonstrated at NAB, then available by the time the cam hits the shelf) This is also a question to ask at the Promax Digital Cafe. Charles may be gone, but the company seems committed to carrying on his legacy.

April 8th, 2005, 09:07 AM	#11
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	I referenced the toms article a couple of weeks ago. There is some possibility in the future, but for now the throughput on the drive is just a little to slow for HDPRO. If there is demand, I'm sure Toshiba will respond. BTW, Toshiba also has a 60gig 2 platter version that is just a little to tall(depth) to fit into the P2 slot. Besides we really don't know what is going to be announced at NAB. funny thing, that drive is more than fast enough for the new JVC and the Sony. Right now the biggest market is protable media players. We're talking millions of units versus thousands.

April 9th, 2005, 08:12 AM	#12
Anhar Miah Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: United Kindom, England Posts: 290	ok Can i suggest this post be joined onto my post as this really is the same (in essense) topic as the one i brought up. Thread title : "P2 card to Hard disk adaptor" Best Regards Anhar Miah