It's official: Panasonic AG-HVX200

Michael Pappas · April 1st, 2005, 11:21 AM

4GB SanDisk Compact flash $299 at fry's. It's amazing how memory prices are dropping. P2 is going to reflect this market. Panasonic is smart, they are not going to shoot their own foot over P2 cards......

<<<-- Originally posted by Luis Caffesse : [i
I doubt we'll be spending $6400 on P2 cards.

Also, a 4gb card will hold about 5 minutes of 720P60 footage.
The data rate is cut by 60% when you shoot 24P (to 40mb/s). So, on a 4gb card you can fit roughly 13 minutes of 720P24 footage.

And again, prices will drop for P2. New prices will probably be announed at NAB. Panasonic knows what they're doing.

The camera won't be available for months probably, so we can't make many judgement based off the cost of P2 cards today. What matters is the cost of P2 cards when the camera is released. -->>>

Ivan Hurtado · April 1st, 2005, 12:29 PM

Err... Just a question...

If Firestore is implemented with dvcproHD or 50 codec, what denies other people with ohter cameras to record the image in this codec? Does it recognize the camera is being used?

I know if its 4:1:1 won´t get more info, but if working for different TV agencies with different systems (DVCPRO, DVCAM) you could record for them this way... Is it possible?

R Geoff Baker · April 1st, 2005, 01:20 PM

The Firestore doesn't apply a codec -- it just records the data file sent over the Firewire connection with a codec already applied.

GB

Ivan Hurtado · April 1st, 2005, 02:35 PM

Ups.... let it go quietly...

ehem..hem...ehem...

So... Was it one or two P2 slots?... ;D

Kurth Bousman · April 1st, 2005, 04:06 PM

hi Michael - the cool thing about the 720/24p@13 minutes for a 4 gig card is , is that's about like run time on a 16mm 400 mag- wow , that's a drop in media size for comparable quality - from a 400ft. mag to the size of a cf card in 10 years. Sure will beat the used Aaton market to death , considering the cards can be reexposed ....and reexposed....and reexposed....and , they say 50,000x.If I trust your storage numbers , then I could go for 5 4gig p2 cards @ 300 each w/o even blinking.If , and it's a big if, the camera is reasonably priced - like lower than halfway between 10k and a z1. Panasonic must be listening. Also , we haven't seen anything about cine gamma , have we ?Kurth

Thomas Smet · April 1st, 2005, 05:18 PM

If the new camera does not have firewire...

I was thinking today that if P2 cards work in a cardbus slot of a laptop then would cardbus expansion cards made for laptops work in a P2 slot? You could then add a firewire cardbus card to the P2 slot and have a live firewire network feed from the camera. You could also stick in a gigabit cardbus adapter as well. I don't know if the camera will be smart enough to use those cards or not but it could open up a lot of options for us to not record on P2.

Chris Hurd · April 1st, 2005, 07:18 PM

Think about it, there's no practical way for it NOT to have two slots (at least)... one of the big advantages of P2 is hot-swapping on the fly, which requires... yep, at least two card slots.

Other Panasonic P2 cams offer options for SDI, FireWire and USB 2.0. I'd be very surprised if the HVX didn't have FireWire or USB 2.0.

Thomas Smet · April 1st, 2005, 09:19 PM

I am sure it will have USB2 since that is the one of the main ways of editing with P2. Other P2 equipment can be used as an external hard drive when using USB2.

As for the 2 slot thing I am not so sure. If everything is true about the camera so far Panasonic will have to cripple it somehow when compared to the other high end P2 gear. If it did only have one slot the camera would still be very usefull for film people. Swapping the cards would only be needed for those who need to shoot for a long time without stopping. For mini DV users this is already an issue with events over 1 hour. Eventually we will have P2 cards that can fit 1 hour of HD. At that point having 2 slots will not be a crucial as it is right now.

One thing is for sure if it does only have one slot at least the swapping should be much faster than it is with tape. You should (in theory) be able to swap cards in 10 seconds.

Can anybody who has used the current P2 gear confirm this?

Luis Caffesse · April 1st, 2005, 10:29 PM

"If everything is true about the camera so far Panasonic will have to cripple it somehow"

Have we really become this cynical after years of crippled prosumer cams?

I guess so.
:)

I have to go with Chris on this one.
A 1 slot P2 camcorder would be much more than just crippled, it would be on it's deathbed.

The biggest obstacles Panasonic has when it comes to convincing people to switch over to P2 seems to be price and recording time.

Price drops are expected at NAB.
And as far as recording time goes....with 2 P2 slots, you could theoretically shoot forever.
That makes for great marketing fodder.
I doubt Panasonic would pass up that opportunity.

Joe Carney · April 1st, 2005, 11:26 PM

Trying to keep things in perspective...

We are fortunate that we live in a time where we have an embarrasment of riches. Between Sony, Panasonic, Adobe, Apple and others.. none of us will have an excuse to not achieve our dreams.

Just pick your tools, don't waste time worrying about what someone else has, and start creating.

really.

Obin Olson · April 2nd, 2005, 02:35 AM

Really Joe. A great idea.

guess I will go take you up on it now with our latest project. :)

April 1st, 2005, 12:29 PM	#92
Ivan Hurtado Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Granada, Spain Posts: 75	Err... Just a question... If Firestore is implemented with dvcproHD or 50 codec, what denies other people with ohter cameras to record the image in this codec? Does it recognize the camera is being used? I know if its 4:1:1 won´t get more info, but if working for different TV agencies with different systems (DVCPRO, DVCAM) you could record for them this way... Is it possible? __________________ IvI

April 1st, 2005, 02:35 PM	#94
Ivan Hurtado Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Granada, Spain Posts: 75	Ups.... let it go quietly... ehem..hem...ehem... So... Was it one or two P2 slots?... ;D __________________ IvI

April 1st, 2005, 07:18 PM	#97
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Think about it, there's no practical way for it NOT to have two slots (at least)... one of the big advantages of P2 is hot-swapping on the fly, which requires... yep, at least two card slots. Other Panasonic P2 cams offer options for SDI, FireWire and USB 2.0. I'd be very surprised if the HVX didn't have FireWire or USB 2.0. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

April 1st, 2005, 10:29 PM	#99
Luis Caffesse Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 704	"If everything is true about the camera so far Panasonic will have to cripple it somehow" Have we really become this cynical after years of crippled prosumer cams? I guess so. :) I have to go with Chris on this one. A 1 slot P2 camcorder would be much more than just crippled, it would be on it's deathbed. The biggest obstacles Panasonic has when it comes to convincing people to switch over to P2 seems to be price and recording time. Price drops are expected at NAB. And as far as recording time goes....with 2 P2 slots, you could theoretically shoot forever. That makes for great marketing fodder. I doubt Panasonic would pass up that opportunity. __________________ Luis Caffesse Pitch Productions Austin, Texas

April 1st, 2005, 11:21 AM	#91
Michael Pappas Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: California Posts: 667	4GB SanDisk Compact flash $299 at fry's. It's amazing how memory prices are dropping. P2 is going to reflect this market. Panasonic is smart, they are not going to shoot their own foot over P2 cards...... <<<-- Originally posted by Luis Caffesse : [i I doubt we'll be spending $6400 on P2 cards. Also, a 4gb card will hold about 5 minutes of 720P60 footage. The data rate is cut by 60% when you shoot 24P (to 40mb/s). So, on a 4gb card you can fit roughly 13 minutes of 720P24 footage. And again, prices will drop for P2. New prices will probably be announed at NAB. Panasonic knows what they're doing. The camera won't be available for months probably, so we can't make many judgement based off the cost of P2 cards today. What matters is the cost of P2 cards when the camera is released. -->>>

April 1st, 2005, 01:20 PM	#93
R Geoff Baker Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ottawa, ON Posts: 471	The Firestore doesn't apply a codec -- it just records the data file sent over the Firewire connection with a codec already applied. GB

April 1st, 2005, 04:06 PM	#95
Kurth Bousman Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: san miguel allende , gto , mexico Posts: 644	hi Michael - the cool thing about the 720/24p@13 minutes for a 4 gig card is , is that's about like run time on a 16mm 400 mag- wow , that's a drop in media size for comparable quality - from a 400ft. mag to the size of a cf card in 10 years. Sure will beat the used Aaton market to death , considering the cards can be reexposed ....and reexposed....and reexposed....and , they say 50,000x.If I trust your storage numbers , then I could go for 5 4gig p2 cards @ 300 each w/o even blinking.If , and it's a big if, the camera is reasonably priced - like lower than halfway between 10k and a z1. Panasonic must be listening. Also , we haven't seen anything about cine gamma , have we ?Kurth

April 1st, 2005, 05:18 PM	#96
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	If the new camera does not have firewire... I was thinking today that if P2 cards work in a cardbus slot of a laptop then would cardbus expansion cards made for laptops work in a P2 slot? You could then add a firewire cardbus card to the P2 slot and have a live firewire network feed from the camera. You could also stick in a gigabit cardbus adapter as well. I don't know if the camera will be smart enough to use those cards or not but it could open up a lot of options for us to not record on P2.

April 1st, 2005, 09:19 PM	#98
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	I am sure it will have USB2 since that is the one of the main ways of editing with P2. Other P2 equipment can be used as an external hard drive when using USB2. As for the 2 slot thing I am not so sure. If everything is true about the camera so far Panasonic will have to cripple it somehow when compared to the other high end P2 gear. If it did only have one slot the camera would still be very usefull for film people. Swapping the cards would only be needed for those who need to shoot for a long time without stopping. For mini DV users this is already an issue with events over 1 hour. Eventually we will have P2 cards that can fit 1 hour of HD. At that point having 2 slots will not be a crucial as it is right now. One thing is for sure if it does only have one slot at least the swapping should be much faster than it is with tape. You should (in theory) be able to swap cards in 10 seconds. Can anybody who has used the current P2 gear confirm this?

April 1st, 2005, 11:26 PM	#100
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	Trying to keep things in perspective... We are fortunate that we live in a time where we have an embarrasment of riches. Between Sony, Panasonic, Adobe, Apple and others.. none of us will have an excuse to not achieve our dreams. Just pick your tools, don't waste time worrying about what someone else has, and start creating. really.

April 2nd, 2005, 02:35 AM	#101
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	Really Joe. A great idea. guess I will go take you up on it now with our latest project. :)