Here is more specs at DVinfo.net

Radek Svoboda · March 27th, 2005, 07:32 PM

Look at JVC HD100. It will have same CCD, will have same interchangable lenses, same low light lux rating, will also have MPEG2 mode, will have true 720/24p. Why? Panasonic owns JVC and both cameras come out same time, same CCD size, same price.

The Panasonic cheaper to make because no tape transport. If same price, also will have interchangable Fuji lenses.

It uses expensive flash memory. It means it will need low bit rate. That is why it will have MPEG2 mode.

Anybody wants to bet?

When it will sell at year end, the SD cards will cost lot less.

The advantage over JVC is it will also record DVCPRO-HD.

Radek

Radek Svoboda · March 27th, 2005, 07:37 PM

I bet that Canon will also use ProHD, like JVC. It will not adapt Sony 1080i HDV. It will use same CCD as the JVC.

Canon will be the best camera from the three because it will have best lenses. Otherwise the 3 cameras will be similar, will be excellent for film out.

Chris Hurd · March 27th, 2005, 10:06 PM

<< Panasonic owns JVC >>

Sorry but this is not true. To say that Panasonic owns JVC is grossly inaccurate.

Panasonic is wholly owned by Matsushita, while JVC is only partially owned by Matsushita. While there may be some sharing of technologies (which is common among all electronics manufacturers, including Sony and Canon), the fact is that Panasonic and JVC are two distinctly different companies which compete against each other in the marketplace.

Radek Svoboda · March 28th, 2005, 03:07 AM

That is true but Panasonic is one of Matsushita brands and they have majority share of JVC. They compete but if they come with similar cameras with new technology that is expensive to produce I bet they share technology. The cameras are different but both 1/3" 720p and Matsushita makes CCD, which must be made in largest possible quantities to make the process economical.

It will be interested to see if Canon use 1080i or 720p. If they would come out with 1080/24p camera for 10 thousand USD that would be a riot.

Chris Hurd · March 28th, 2005, 05:12 AM

<< They compete but... I bet they share technology >>

That is true, they do share technology, but you can say that of any two competing manufacturers in this industry. For example, the earlier JVC DV500 used a Sony CCD block. Sony licenses optical image stabilization technology from Canon, and calls it Super Steadyshot. Canon puts a Control-L jack on some of their camcorders, which is a Sony protocol. Canon also uses Pixel Shift technology which was first implemented by Panasonic. We could go on and on, but my point is that the industry is already fairly incestuously inbred.

<< It will be interested to see if Canon use 1080i or 720p. >>

I agree with you, that will be very interesting indeed.

Frank Vrionis · March 28th, 2005, 12:57 PM

<<but my point is that the industry is already fairly incestuously inbred>>

...what we need is a company making cameras OUTSIDE of Japan.

Joe Carney · March 28th, 2005, 01:59 PM

>>...what we need is a company making cameras OUTSIDE of Japan.
<<

Yes, but both Kodak and Polaroid dropped the DV ball so to speak. They aren't that big of players in the lower end digital still image market either.

Michael Pappas · March 28th, 2005, 04:39 PM

{{{Written by Joe Carney:
Yes, but both Kodak and Polaroid dropped the DV ball so to speak. They aren't that big of players in the lower end digital still image market either.}}}}

Hi Joe!

Kodak is not a big player. Well we need some facts here about the lower digital still camera market.

Kodak shipped approx. 4.66 million digital cameras to domestic retailers in 2004.

Sony for 2004 shipped approx. 4.33 million cameras.

Kodak blasted ahead of the front-runner Sony Corp. in U.S. digital camera shipments in 2004 which took Sony by a big surprise. Canon comes in at third place. Kodak as well ending 2004 with number one digital camera market share in Australia, Argentina, Peru, and Chile; and the top three share positions in Germany, the United Kingdom, Mexico, and Brazil.

Kodak is doing quite well based on their 2004 numbers.

Michael Pappas
http://pbase.com/ARRFILMS

Dave Ferdinand · March 28th, 2005, 06:39 PM

I don't think they're the same at all - one uses HDV and the other doesn't.

JVC entered the HDV market with the HD1/HD10 and now are responding to Sony FX1/Z1 with a new camera.

Panasonic isn't part of the HDV market at all, and by adopting flash or HDD will simply provide a different option to the prosumer or professional.

Chris Hurd · March 28th, 2005, 06:50 PM

Thanks you, Dave! I was hoping I wouldn't have to say that myself. Bravo!

Joe Carney · March 28th, 2005, 06:56 PM

Michael I didn't know that. Most people talk about Nikon and Olympus and then Sony, Kodak.... Just wonder why Kodak didn't take the initiative and come out with a dv camcorder. Wouldn't hurt their film sales at all. I can't help but feel they could have owned the market. If they came out with a viable 1080p cam, they could still make an impact.

Jan Crittenden Livingston · March 29th, 2005, 01:03 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Radek Svoboda : Look at JVC HD100. It will have same CCD, will have same interchangable lenses, same low light lux rating, will also have MPEG2 mode, will have true 720/24p.
Radek -->>>

Radek, This is an incorrect assumption, the JVC chip set is theirs and not the one we will be using. The 24P on the JVC will have a GOP around every 6 frames, and thus the HDV will have it way, and the color will be at 4:2:0. There is no connection of this product to the Panasonic P2 HD camera.

Hope that helps,

Jan

Radek Svoboda · March 29th, 2005, 01:45 PM

Jan,

Thank you. So now we know CCD's will different. Notice Jan did not say lenses will be different.

Jan, you're right. The recorded image will totally different but how about MPEG2 mode? Notice Jan did not say there will not be MPEG2 mode in addition to DVCPRO HD mode.

Radek

Aaron Koolen · March 29th, 2005, 02:02 PM

Yeah but why stick in stupid HDV when you have HD DVCPro with better sampling and NO GOP! Maybe they will, in order to capitalise on the HDV mania that's going around, but I'd imagine that seeing as they're going for a different HD format, they'll just stick with 1 and drop the cost a little to keep it under the magic 10K.

Aaron

Chris Hurd · March 29th, 2005, 03:49 PM

<< Notice Jan did not say lenses will be different. >>

That's because Jan is in no position to confirm or deny anything about this camera until Panasonic officially announces it. However, you're certainly entitled to my opinion and I'm happy to give it.

The JVC camera you refer to, the GY-HD100, is using high-definition Fujinon broadcast video lenses. I've been following these P2 HD discussions closely and I don't recall any hint that the forthcoming Panasonic P2 HD will have removeable lenses. Most likely it's going to have a built-in Leica lens, but that's just a guess on my part.

Regardless, there are a wide variety of Sony, Panasonic and JVC cameras that will take a Fuji or Canon broadcast video lens. So I guess I'm not seeing your point.

<< Notice Jan did not say there will not be MPEG2 mode in addition to DVCPRO HD mode. >>

Notice Jan is not saying many things until the news is official; you can't possibly infer something about this camera based on what she has *not* said. I hope we're all clear on that concept,

March 27th, 2005, 07:32 PM	#1
Radek Svoboda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 500	Here is more specs Look at JVC HD100. It will have same CCD, will have same interchangable lenses, same low light lux rating, will also have MPEG2 mode, will have true 720/24p. Why? Panasonic owns JVC and both cameras come out same time, same CCD size, same price. The Panasonic cheaper to make because no tape transport. If same price, also will have interchangable Fuji lenses. It uses expensive flash memory. It means it will need low bit rate. That is why it will have MPEG2 mode. Anybody wants to bet? When it will sell at year end, the SD cards will cost lot less. The advantage over JVC is it will also record DVCPRO-HD. Radek

March 27th, 2005, 10:06 PM	#3
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	<< Panasonic owns JVC >> Sorry but this is not true. To say that Panasonic owns JVC is grossly inaccurate. Panasonic is wholly owned by Matsushita, while JVC is only partially owned by Matsushita. While there may be some sharing of technologies (which is common among all electronics manufacturers, including Sony and Canon), the fact is that Panasonic and JVC are two distinctly different companies which compete against each other in the marketplace. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

March 28th, 2005, 05:12 AM	#5
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	<< They compete but... I bet they share technology >> That is true, they do share technology, but you can say that of any two competing manufacturers in this industry. For example, the earlier JVC DV500 used a Sony CCD block. Sony licenses optical image stabilization technology from Canon, and calls it Super Steadyshot. Canon puts a Control-L jack on some of their camcorders, which is a Sony protocol. Canon also uses Pixel Shift technology which was first implemented by Panasonic. We could go on and on, but my point is that the industry is already fairly incestuously inbred. << It will be interested to see if Canon use 1080i or 720p. >> I agree with you, that will be very interesting indeed. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

March 28th, 2005, 06:50 PM	#10
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Thanks you, Dave! I was hoping I wouldn't have to say that myself. Bravo! __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

March 29th, 2005, 01:03 PM	#12
Jan Crittenden Livingston Panasonic Broadcast Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Secaucus, NJ 07094 Posts: 271	Re: Here is more specs <<<-- Originally posted by Radek Svoboda : Look at JVC HD100. It will have same CCD, will have same interchangable lenses, same low light lux rating, will also have MPEG2 mode, will have true 720/24p. Radek -->>> Radek, This is an incorrect assumption, the JVC chip set is theirs and not the one we will be using. The 24P on the JVC will have a GOP around every 6 frames, and thus the HDV will have it way, and the color will be at 4:2:0. There is no connection of this product to the Panasonic P2 HD camera. Hope that helps, Jan __________________ Jan Crittenden Livingston Panasonic Solutions Company, Product Manager for 3D and Handheld Cameras

March 27th, 2005, 07:37 PM	#2
Radek Svoboda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 500	I bet that Canon will also use ProHD, like JVC. It will not adapt Sony 1080i HDV. It will use same CCD as the JVC. Canon will be the best camera from the three because it will have best lenses. Otherwise the 3 cameras will be similar, will be excellent for film out.

March 28th, 2005, 03:07 AM	#4
Radek Svoboda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 500	That is true but Panasonic is one of Matsushita brands and they have majority share of JVC. They compete but if they come with similar cameras with new technology that is expensive to produce I bet they share technology. The cameras are different but both 1/3" 720p and Matsushita makes CCD, which must be made in largest possible quantities to make the process economical. It will be interested to see if Canon use 1080i or 720p. If they would come out with 1080/24p camera for 10 thousand USD that would be a riot.

March 28th, 2005, 12:57 PM	#6
Frank Vrionis Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 93	<<but my point is that the industry is already fairly incestuously inbred>> ...what we need is a company making cameras OUTSIDE of Japan.

March 28th, 2005, 01:59 PM	#7
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	>>...what we need is a company making cameras OUTSIDE of Japan. << Yes, but both Kodak and Polaroid dropped the DV ball so to speak. They aren't that big of players in the lower end digital still image market either.

March 28th, 2005, 04:39 PM	#8
Michael Pappas Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: California Posts: 667	{{{Written by Joe Carney: Yes, but both Kodak and Polaroid dropped the DV ball so to speak. They aren't that big of players in the lower end digital still image market either.}}}} Hi Joe! Kodak is not a big player. Well we need some facts here about the lower digital still camera market. Kodak shipped approx. 4.66 million digital cameras to domestic retailers in 2004. Sony for 2004 shipped approx. 4.33 million cameras. Kodak blasted ahead of the front-runner Sony Corp. in U.S. digital camera shipments in 2004 which took Sony by a big surprise. Canon comes in at third place. Kodak as well ending 2004 with number one digital camera market share in Australia, Argentina, Peru, and Chile; and the top three share positions in Germany, the United Kingdom, Mexico, and Brazil. Kodak is doing quite well based on their 2004 numbers. Michael Pappas http://pbase.com/ARRFILMS

March 28th, 2005, 06:39 PM	#9
Dave Ferdinand Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 359	I don't think they're the same at all - one uses HDV and the other doesn't. JVC entered the HDV market with the HD1/HD10 and now are responding to Sony FX1/Z1 with a new camera. Panasonic isn't part of the HDV market at all, and by adopting flash or HDD will simply provide a different option to the prosumer or professional.

March 28th, 2005, 06:56 PM	#11
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	Michael I didn't know that. Most people talk about Nikon and Olympus and then Sony, Kodak.... Just wonder why Kodak didn't take the initiative and come out with a dv camcorder. Wouldn't hurt their film sales at all. I can't help but feel they could have owned the market. If they came out with a viable 1080p cam, they could still make an impact.

March 29th, 2005, 01:45 PM	#13
Radek Svoboda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 500	Jan, Thank you. So now we know CCD's will different. Notice Jan did not say lenses will be different. Jan, you're right. The recorded image will totally different but how about MPEG2 mode? Notice Jan did not say there will not be MPEG2 mode in addition to DVCPRO HD mode. Radek

March 29th, 2005, 02:02 PM	#14
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	Yeah but why stick in stupid HDV when you have HD DVCPro with better sampling and NO GOP! Maybe they will, in order to capitalise on the HDV mania that's going around, but I'd imagine that seeing as they're going for a different HD format, they'll just stick with 1 and drop the cost a little to keep it under the magic 10K. Aaron __________________ My Website Meat Free Media

March 29th, 2005, 03:49 PM	#15
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	<< Notice Jan did not say lenses will be different. >> That's because Jan is in no position to confirm or deny anything about this camera until Panasonic officially announces it. However, you're certainly entitled to my opinion and I'm happy to give it. The JVC camera you refer to, the GY-HD100, is using high-definition Fujinon broadcast video lenses. I've been following these P2 HD discussions closely and I don't recall any hint that the forthcoming Panasonic P2 HD will have removeable lenses. Most likely it's going to have a built-in Leica lens, but that's just a guess on my part. Regardless, there are a wide variety of Sony, Panasonic and JVC cameras that will take a Fuji or Canon broadcast video lens. So I guess I'm not seeing your point. << Notice Jan did not say there will not be MPEG2 mode in addition to DVCPRO HD mode. >> Notice Jan is not saying many things until the news is official; you can't possibly infer something about this camera based on what she has not said. I hope we're all clear on that concept, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!