If the price was $9999.99 would you buy one?

Michael Struthers · March 16th, 2005, 01:48 PM

Although as I think about it, we are looking at more format wars with Panny vs. Sony. Nobody makes money on tape...

Well as long as NLE's support everyone we are okay...

Peter Jefferson · March 16th, 2005, 04:43 PM

AAAAAAAHHHHHH i "owned' is something i recognise (i run a tech forum similar to this fulll of gamers.. lol

im not bent outta shape about it though.. lol

its all good, and if it is 100mbps even better, lets hope the Pana techs are wrong :)

Michael Pappas · March 19th, 2005, 08:05 PM

Good poll question.

NO. I won't buy if it's $6, 000 let alone $9,999. Panasonic is very good, I owned the DVX100 and thought it was a very good camera. So if the price is sweet and it works, I might.

If not, a Z1 or FX1 will do the job just fine. I am very curious to see what the JVC is going to cost. Now if Canon made a XL2 like camera that is HD that would be good as well.

<<<-- Originally posted by Paul Brady : I the price was $5900.00 we would all buy one but if the starting price was $9999.99 would you still buy one or wait a year. -->>>

Ramon Boutviseth · March 20th, 2005, 10:05 PM

I'd wait if its 9999.99, ... i could buy a nice honda for that much money ^_^

Glenn Gipson · March 27th, 2005, 07:18 AM

That's a rental for me, 7k would be my maximum buying price.

Jacques Mersereau · March 28th, 2005, 09:12 AM

IF this cam had interchangeable lens, then YES I would pony $10K for
100mbps HD. HDV is fine for talking heads, but for nature videography
there is no way 25mbps is going to cut it. Heck, DV barely hangs at 1/4
the resolution. A used Arri SRII kit goes for over $20K. Varicam is $60K without
the $30K lens you must have. IMO $10K is affordable.

Zack Birlew · March 28th, 2005, 10:22 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Jacques Mersereau : IF this cam had interchangeable lens, then YES I would pony $10K for
100mbps HD. HDV is fine for talking heads, but for nature videography
there is no way 25mbps is going to cut it. Heck, DV barely hangs at 1/4
the resolution. A used Arri SRII kit goes for over $20K. Varicam is $60K without
the $30K lens you must have. IMO $10K is affordable. -->>>

Quite.

Michael Pappas · March 28th, 2005, 11:29 AM

Even though I haven't seen this camera I am nearly sold. 4:2:2, DVCproHD, 24P, No tape. "Tapeless is a major big one. I am so sick of tape. When I went from a 35mm SLR to Digital SLR years ago I never looked back.

Now if that price is right, then I will buy. My favorite small camera to date was my DVX100, so if they give us that in DVCpro HD- P2 that's going to be the camera to get. From what I read in Jan's post's there going to be raising the bar on this camera as features go besides going HD. For one thing it's great to see a PM from Panasonic on here with tons of enthusiasm for their product. That's show's me Panasonic's commitment to this.

Michael Pappas
http://www.pbase.com/ARFFILMS

<<<-- Originally posted by Jack Felis : <<<-- Originally posted by Jacques Mersereau : IF this cam had interchangeable lens, then YES I would pony $10K for
100mbps HD. HDV is fine for talking heads, but for nature videography
there is no way 25mbps is going to cut it. Heck, DV barely hangs at 1/4
the resolution. A used Arri SRII kit goes for over $20K. Varicam is $60K without
the $30K lens you must have. IMO $10K is affordable. -->>>

Quite. -->>>

Jacques Mersereau · March 28th, 2005, 12:33 PM

I not that sick of tape, just the dropouts ;)

The thing is, tape is cheap and reilable storage. I can shoot all day long with
a couple of tapes that are light and inexpensive. Put them in a drawer
and come back months later to digitize.

The worry I have with P2 or other card type media is the cost, the
expense and reliability of hard drives to off load the P2 cards' video.
Yes, hard drives are pretty cheap, but they are SO cheap that the fail
quite often and when a 160g-500g drive goes down, that's A LOT of
loss. SO, I have found that I need to buy two hard drives and mirror them.
Thank goodness cheap RAID 5 firewire drives are coming of age so that if
one drive dies, you are SOL.

Luis Caffesse · March 28th, 2005, 12:49 PM

"I not that sick of tape, just the dropouts ;)

The thing is, tape is cheap and reilable storage"

Apparently not that reliable...if you're sick of the drop outs.
:)

You are right about the 'all or none' nature of drive failure.
But, I think that if properly backup up and mirrored, we'll have less problems with hard drive archiving that we do now with tape.

I know I've had a lot more drop outs than I've had hard drive failures.

Bob Zimmerman · March 28th, 2005, 07:01 PM

I'll be glad when all the info comes out,,,I'm tired of waiting. I need to see what this whole thing will cost so if it's to high I can make a choice on something else.

Chris Hurd · March 28th, 2005, 07:51 PM

<< The thing is, tape is cheap >>

But remember this cam is first and foremost an HD cam... and DVCPro HD tapes are *not* cheap, in fact they're actually fairly pricey. If you're shooting a big project, that cost adds up in a big hurry.

Jacques Mersereau · March 28th, 2005, 08:12 PM

True, DVCPro stock is still priced fairly high, but I would not feel safe
putting any of my precious footage on anything less than a mirrored
RAID or backed up on two hard drives. I have had two LaCie drives go down and
one of my colleagues had one die too. Others have reported drives dying
early in their life expectancy as well. Let's face it, cheap drives are cheaply made.

DVD-ROM has not proven very reliable in my
experience. I, and recently others, have burned DVD backups and had
them "verified okay", yet upon trying to open a folder I got a
"failed: corrupted" error message. The disk was in perfect shape.

Last time I checked, P2 and compact flash were still pretty expensive per gig,
so I don't see that as a long term storage solution . . . yet.

Jacques Star · March 29th, 2005, 06:25 PM

If it's going to be some sort of 50 mb/sec DVCPro HD, then why not go IMX?

My next camera is going to be an XDCAM, which can shoot DVCAM and IMX, which is a high-quality 50 mb/sec format that looks just like DigiBeta.

For me, it's the logical equipment upgrade as it is still downcompatable shooting DVCAM alongside my DSR390, plus I have IMX available, which looks amazing on a 2/3" chip camera. IMHO, any SD 2/3" chip camera will beat any 1/3" chip camera regardless of whether it's HD or not, due to such factors as low-light sensitivity, depth of field sensitivity, etc. All of these are affected by chip side.

Also, Sony already said that the blue-violet laser currently used in XDCAM's is already capable of handling an HD data stream.

Lawrence Bansbach · March 29th, 2005, 10:56 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Jacques Star : If it's going to be some sort of 50 mb/sec DVCPro HD, then why not go IMX? -->>>

It's not 50-Mbps DVCPro HD -- it's 100 Mbps.

<<<-- Originally posted by Jacques Star : IMHO, any SD 2/3" chip camera will beat any 1/3" chip camera regardless of whether it's HD or not, due to such factors as low-light sensitivity, depth of field sensitivity, etc. All of these are affected by chip side.
-->>>

Although the P2 DVCPro HD camera probably will have 1/3" chips, its CCD size hasn't been officially divulged yet.

March 16th, 2005, 01:48 PM	#31
Michael Struthers Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: SF, Ca Posts: 421	Although as I think about it, we are looking at more format wars with Panny vs. Sony. Nobody makes money on tape... Well as long as NLE's support everyone we are okay... __________________ Michael Struthers www.buzzdigital.com

March 19th, 2005, 08:05 PM	#33
Michael Pappas Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: California Posts: 667	Re: If the price was $9999.99 would you buy one? Good poll question. NO. I won't buy if it's $6, 000 let alone $9,999. Panasonic is very good, I owned the DVX100 and thought it was a very good camera. So if the price is sweet and it works, I might. If not, a Z1 or FX1 will do the job just fine. I am very curious to see what the JVC is going to cost. Now if Canon made a XL2 like camera that is HD that would be good as well. <<<-- Originally posted by Paul Brady : I the price was $5900.00 we would all buy one but if the starting price was $9999.99 would you still buy one or wait a year. -->>>

March 20th, 2005, 10:05 PM	#34
Ramon Boutviseth New Boot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Denver, NC Posts: 19	I'd wait if its 9999.99, ... i could buy a nice honda for that much money ^_^ __________________ http://www.studiorb.com

March 28th, 2005, 09:12 AM	#36
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	IF this cam had interchangeable lens, then YES I would pony $10K for 100mbps HD. HDV is fine for talking heads, but for nature videography there is no way 25mbps is going to cut it. Heck, DV barely hangs at 1/4 the resolution. A used Arri SRII kit goes for over $20K. Varicam is $60K without the $30K lens you must have. IMO $10K is affordable. __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager

March 28th, 2005, 10:22 AM	#37
Zack Birlew Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 613	<<<-- Originally posted by Jacques Mersereau : IF this cam had interchangeable lens, then YES I would pony $10K for 100mbps HD. HDV is fine for talking heads, but for nature videography there is no way 25mbps is going to cut it. Heck, DV barely hangs at 1/4 the resolution. A used Arri SRII kit goes for over $20K. Varicam is $60K without the $30K lens you must have. IMO $10K is affordable. -->>> Quite. __________________ "Babs Do or Babs Do not, there is no try." - Zack Birlew www.BabsDoProductions.com

March 16th, 2005, 04:43 PM	#32
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	AAAAAAAHHHHHH i "owned' is something i recognise (i run a tech forum similar to this fulll of gamers.. lol im not bent outta shape about it though.. lol its all good, and if it is 100mbps even better, lets hope the Pana techs are wrong :)

March 27th, 2005, 07:18 AM	#35
Glenn Gipson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Plainfield, New Jersey Posts: 927	That's a rental for me, 7k would be my maximum buying price.

March 28th, 2005, 11:29 AM	#38
Michael Pappas Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: California Posts: 667	Even though I haven't seen this camera I am nearly sold. 4:2:2, DVCproHD, 24P, No tape. "Tapeless is a major big one. I am so sick of tape. When I went from a 35mm SLR to Digital SLR years ago I never looked back. Now if that price is right, then I will buy. My favorite small camera to date was my DVX100, so if they give us that in DVCpro HD- P2 that's going to be the camera to get. From what I read in Jan's post's there going to be raising the bar on this camera as features go besides going HD. For one thing it's great to see a PM from Panasonic on here with tons of enthusiasm for their product. That's show's me Panasonic's commitment to this. Michael Pappas http://www.pbase.com/ARFFILMS <<<-- Originally posted by Jack Felis : <<<-- Originally posted by Jacques Mersereau : IF this cam had interchangeable lens, then YES I would pony $10K for 100mbps HD. HDV is fine for talking heads, but for nature videography there is no way 25mbps is going to cut it. Heck, DV barely hangs at 1/4 the resolution. A used Arri SRII kit goes for over $20K. Varicam is $60K without the $30K lens you must have. IMO $10K is affordable. -->>> Quite. -->>>

March 28th, 2005, 12:33 PM	#39
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	I not that sick of tape, just the dropouts ;) The thing is, tape is cheap and reilable storage. I can shoot all day long with a couple of tapes that are light and inexpensive. Put them in a drawer and come back months later to digitize. The worry I have with P2 or other card type media is the cost, the expense and reliability of hard drives to off load the P2 cards' video. Yes, hard drives are pretty cheap, but they are SO cheap that the fail quite often and when a 160g-500g drive goes down, that's A LOT of loss. SO, I have found that I need to buy two hard drives and mirror them. Thank goodness cheap RAID 5 firewire drives are coming of age so that if one drive dies, you are SOL. __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager

March 28th, 2005, 12:49 PM	#40
Luis Caffesse Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 704	"I not that sick of tape, just the dropouts ;) The thing is, tape is cheap and reilable storage" Apparently not that reliable...if you're sick of the drop outs. :) You are right about the 'all or none' nature of drive failure. But, I think that if properly backup up and mirrored, we'll have less problems with hard drive archiving that we do now with tape. I know I've had a lot more drop outs than I've had hard drive failures. __________________ Luis Caffesse Pitch Productions Austin, Texas

March 28th, 2005, 07:01 PM	#41
Bob Zimmerman Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Illinois Posts: 888	I'll be glad when all the info comes out,,,I'm tired of waiting. I need to see what this whole thing will cost so if it's to high I can make a choice on something else.

March 28th, 2005, 07:51 PM	#42
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	<< The thing is, tape is cheap >> But remember this cam is first and foremost an HD cam... and DVCPro HD tapes are not cheap, in fact they're actually fairly pricey. If you're shooting a big project, that cost adds up in a big hurry. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

March 28th, 2005, 08:12 PM	#43
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	True, DVCPro stock is still priced fairly high, but I would not feel safe putting any of my precious footage on anything less than a mirrored RAID or backed up on two hard drives. I have had two LaCie drives go down and one of my colleagues had one die too. Others have reported drives dying early in their life expectancy as well. Let's face it, cheap drives are cheaply made. DVD-ROM has not proven very reliable in my experience. I, and recently others, have burned DVD backups and had them "verified okay", yet upon trying to open a folder I got a "failed: corrupted" error message. The disk was in perfect shape. Last time I checked, P2 and compact flash were still pretty expensive per gig, so I don't see that as a long term storage solution . . . yet. __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager

March 29th, 2005, 06:25 PM	#44
Jacques Star Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 68	data stream If it's going to be some sort of 50 mb/sec DVCPro HD, then why not go IMX? My next camera is going to be an XDCAM, which can shoot DVCAM and IMX, which is a high-quality 50 mb/sec format that looks just like DigiBeta. For me, it's the logical equipment upgrade as it is still downcompatable shooting DVCAM alongside my DSR390, plus I have IMX available, which looks amazing on a 2/3" chip camera. IMHO, any SD 2/3" chip camera will beat any 1/3" chip camera regardless of whether it's HD or not, due to such factors as low-light sensitivity, depth of field sensitivity, etc. All of these are affected by chip side. Also, Sony already said that the blue-violet laser currently used in XDCAM's is already capable of handling an HD data stream.

March 29th, 2005, 10:56 PM	#45
Lawrence Bansbach Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 295	Re: data stream <<<-- Originally posted by Jacques Star : If it's going to be some sort of 50 mb/sec DVCPro HD, then why not go IMX? -->>> It's not 50-Mbps DVCPro HD -- it's 100 Mbps. <<<-- Originally posted by Jacques Star : IMHO, any SD 2/3" chip camera will beat any 1/3" chip camera regardless of whether it's HD or not, due to such factors as low-light sensitivity, depth of field sensitivity, etc. All of these are affected by chip side. -->>> Although the P2 DVCPro HD camera probably will have 1/3" chips, its CCD size hasn't been officially divulged yet.